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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bookgurl99 on May 29, 2002, at 20:27:13
So in 3 months, without touching anything other than prescription drugs (no alchohol, no street drugs, etc.), I have lost aspects of my short and long-term memory. I have also had slowed thinking and a somewhat changed personality -- I'm not as opinionated as I used to be.
Doctors have checked me out over and over and find nothing.
Meanwhile, I've missed school, stopped working at my job, and socialized less.
I really need to move on now, despite what happened. But it's very hard to not wonder why? why? why? has this happened to me? How can I ensure it doesn't get worse? How can I get well?
Any advice on moving on from this situation? I'm already trying to start myself on a regular schedule (which has been erratic), I'm taking a class right now, and I'm looking for a job. But I want joy, not just fake external structure.
Does this sound like a nervous breakdown?
Posted by terra miller on May 30, 2002, at 9:27:29
In reply to Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on May 29, 2002, at 20:27:13
forgive me for not being able to recall your situation, though i feel like i should know (ah, another person with lack of memory.) but my first thought is stress, anxiety and stuff maybe you're working on in therapy (if you are in therapy.) even with doing all the right stuff, if you've got stuff to process it messes with your whole body physically and mentally. so in the most general sense, i suppose you could say it could be a nervous breakdown.... but i don't know your situation but that would be very possible. trauma messes with your brain until you resolve it somehow.
terra
Posted by IsoM on May 30, 2002, at 15:13:32
In reply to Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on May 29, 2002, at 20:27:13
I've found with myself, with my sons, & with close firends who've had depression or a major physical illness, that your memory & cognitive abilities are ALWAYS affected. I'm not sure what goes on between the brain & the rest of the body at these times, but it's like the resources we need to get through these times of illness (even lasting many months) lessen our ability to reason & to retain memories.
I've been convinced in the past that I'm now going to be permanently stupider. I value my mental prowess very highly, so it really bothered me that I'd be like this. I have a son who's a programmer & when he tried to do his normal programming during depression, he couldn't think enough to solve anything & would end in tears. I've seen similar with friends.
But I want to assure you that it always does come back when you heal. You still may have gaps in your memory, but that may be a good thing considering how terrible such times can be. But you won't remain flat & uncreative. All your previous abilities will return.
Posted by Greg A. on May 30, 2002, at 16:07:02
In reply to Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on May 29, 2002, at 20:27:13
Hi bookgurl,
Are you being treated for depression? Was there some particular incident in the recent past? I, too, am not familiar with your story, but your symptoms sound like a very good description of those of depression to me. Docs do not tend to use ‘nervous breakdown’ much anymore. Makes it sound like they know a lot more but at times I am not convinced that there is any higher level of understanding.
If I felt like you describe, and I have, I would be just over a real depression but not recovered to where I want to be. The absence of intense pain or anguish, but no joy. If something has happened recently, you may need to give yourself time to recover before moving on. Getting back to a routine is good, but don’t overdo it. I have been guilty of this many times. I start to feel the depression lift and I immediately overload myself – with disastrous results.
Give us a bit more info. if that’s okay, and be patient.Greg A.
Posted by Gracie2 on May 30, 2002, at 17:38:54
In reply to Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on May 29, 2002, at 20:27:13
I would talk this over with your doctor. By now, any anti-depressants you're taking must have kicked in, and maybe you're not taking the right thing or you're taking too much. My first psychiatrist treated me with large doses of Depakote, which helped at first, but after 6 months I had slowed to a crawl. I was obviously over-medicated.
Otherwise you seem to be doing as much as you can.
It is definately best to stay away from alcohol and recreational drugs, a lesson I've had to learn more than once. But it is dangerous to quit taking psychiatric medication on your own.
It also helps to keep some kind of structure and order in your life, some sort of routine.
I have also suffered from memory lapses, particularly with the Depakote. I know how frustrating and frightening it is, but memory will return gradually. You must give yourself time to heal.
God bless-
Gracie
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 3, 2002, at 8:49:39
In reply to Re: Adjusting to Illness, posted by Greg A. on May 30, 2002, at 16:07:02
Greg --
In early March, my short-term memory suddenly vanished. I had always had a flypaper mind and am going to school, so this really concerned me. (I'm 26, by the way.)
One theory at the time was that I had an unusual reaction to an anti-nausea drug called Reglan; I had received a shot of it in the ER. It can cause temporary short-term memory problems in some people.
I went to my folk's house to get help and see their local doctor. They used the opportunity to hound on me for being gay and for not being graduated yet. It was very abusive -- surprisingly so. They just couldn't handle the stress of helping me: my dad, mr "It's not happening if I don't see it" went out of town, and my mom threw something at me.
(I know it's strange, but they seemed relatively normal until I had a personal crisis.)
Anyways, my therapist now theorizes that the stress of the original medication reaction and the ensuing events affected me so that now I have memory problems _because_ of anxiety.
Also, around the time my problems showed up, I was starting to remember abusive incidents from my childhood because my sister -- also in therapy -- was jogging my memory. (I'll remember these events if reminded but tend to block them out.)
I was tested through formal neuropsych testing, and the doctors came to the same conclusion. In the lab, my 'working memory' is low, but the other aspects of my memory test at genius level. They say the only thing that explains the difference is -- anxiety.
My constellation of symptoms was strange -- feeling lost in places I'd seen before, episodes of dizziness, lowered attention span, trouble recognizing people -- but they ARE starting to lift.
I'm starting to feel better. This has really disturbed my life. This week I'm applying for good jobs and looking forward to rebuilding my life after the past 3 months. I guess all I can do is go back to life and wait to heal.
Thanks y'all for your support,
bookgurl99
Posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 13:09:53
In reply to Re: Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on June 3, 2002, at 8:49:39
Bookgurl, I'm curious about something - as I'm always trying to see if I can figure out strategies to work around my weak areas to compensate.
I have excellent long-term memory. Most friends who aren't around me lots think I have an amazing memory, but my sons & those very close to me know how bad my working memory & sometimes, my short-term memory is.
Have you always had a poorer working memory, or is it after the reaction to the med & family stresses that your working RAM (my term for it) became less? If it's always been your weak point, I have a few questions I'd love to ask. And did your therapist have any suggestions for dealing with your small working RAM? Thanks for sharing.
Posted by Greg A. on June 3, 2002, at 13:51:11
In reply to Re: Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on June 3, 2002, at 8:49:39
bookgurl,
Glad you are starting to see some signs of improvement. I don’t know anything about the effects of your meds on memory, but I have personally experienced the effects that anxiety and depression can have on memory. Depression makes me feel sluggish mentally and physically; the thoughts are there but the process of coalescing them into anything coherent is slow. My depression is usually accompanied by chronic anxiety. I find this far more debilitating than the sluggishness as far as memory and other thought processes goes. I too, cannot remember names, recent events, or simple facts from my job from the recent past. As soon as I ‘calm down’ things improve. I am more logical and the missing pieces come to me. I also do not panic when a memory lapse strikes and that seems to be a key in putting things in order.
I have talked with depressed people about how common anxiety is with the illness but how few times it is mentioned as a major debilitating factor. For me, it is very significant. I am sometimes not sure of which comes first – the anxiety leading to depression or the other way round. I only know, when the anxiety is lessened, my mood is greatly improved and my thought processes along with it.
The only other observation I can offer is that when depressed I may have very orderly and organized thoughts, but in dysfunctional way. That is, I may logically arrange the details of a suicide plan. When anxiety is present at a high level, I cannot think ‘straight ‘ enough to organize even illogical things. Does that make any sense?
Hope things continue to get better for you bookgurl.Greg A.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 4, 2002, at 1:06:27
In reply to Re: your working memory » bookgurl99, posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 13:09:53
>
> Have you always had a poorer working memory, or is it after the reaction to the med & family stresses that your working RAM (my term for it) became less? If it's always been your weak point, I have a few questions I'd love to ask. And did your therapist have any suggestions for dealing with your small working RAM? Thanks for sharing.
Hey IsoM--Well, I've always been somewhat of an 'absentminded professor' -- forgetful of small things because I ruminate so much in my head. But it isn't until lately that my working memory shrunk.
I may ask my therapist -- but she has resisted believing that I have anything organic happening and believes that anxiety-control will help my symptoms lift in a few months.
Meanwhile, I have been forced to be more organized. Whereas before I could have a very messy space and leave things wherever -- and find them -- I now have to clean up and be organized. I(Have you read _Getting Organized_ by Stephanie Winston? It has great suggestions.)
I met a girl at my school with permanent short-term memory loss due to cancer treatment. She told me she makes it through life with a planner and post-it notes.
How are you handling things?
Posted by IsoM on June 4, 2002, at 13:01:16
In reply to Re: your working memory IsoM, posted by bookgurl99 on June 4, 2002, at 1:06:27
How am I handling things? Well, mostly bumbling through life as usual. I had others tell me (esp. my sons) that I'm the perfect match for the absent-minded prof, myself. Full of tidbits of knowledge, great schemes, & never seem to remember the small mundane matters. Trouble is, some of things I forget aren't so small & mundane.
People with ADD (me) typically have small working RAM. Post-it notes turn into Post-it hell with multi-coloured notes stuck up all over the place. I don't even see them. What I do is save those neon bright 8x12 papers that come in junk mail, blank on one side, & use them as my post-it note. I stick them up where I can't miss them - on the bathroom mirror or my tea bag cannister. :-)
Organisation is the key. Unfortunately, I can disorganise faster than you can blink. I have to regularly go through my little piles of stuff, tossing out junk & reorganising. I've developed some good strategies over the years but my biggest hurdle is organising my time properly. I have a poor concept of time, how much has passed, how long it takes me to do something, how to parcel it out usefully, etc. Funny thing is, if you ask me what time it is (prompting me to think about it), I can you the time fairly closely without wearing a watch.
Due to great disorganisational skills, I keep all vitally important info I need on the computer as a back-up in a few folders. I've yet to misplace my computer! And no more looking for scraps of paper that mysteriously vanish.
I like the title of the book you recommend. I'll look it up. ADD books written for ADD people have never proved beneficial for me. This book sounds good though!
Posted by wendy b. on June 4, 2002, at 16:07:11
In reply to ...handling things » bookgurl99, posted by IsoM on June 4, 2002, at 13:01:16
God, Iso, this description sounds like you're talking about me, esp the time-management things... Do I have ADD? Is there a test I can take? I am amazed at the similarities, can't see posties, put huge notes on mirrors or on stairs going down - "Put laundry in Dryer!!" Stuff like that - mundane. If I don't put my travel coffee mug ON THE STAIRS (I live in a 2nd fl apt), I miss it, and leave without it. Water bottles, the same... Imagine having to take 6 Neurontin tabs every three 1/2 hours throughout the day! Almost impossible... And my calendar: such a mess... I can't keep one. I am always late for things... Or forgetting that my daughter has a play Thursday (this week's fiasco...)
If you have any good web sites on AD/HD, could you send them? I did a newspaper article last year on childhood AD/HD, and how parents can help their children (basically: get thee to a doctor who specializes in it), and I do remember thinking: "Gee, maybe I have this, sounds like me..."
Anyway, thank you, Iso, again, you do help many of us,
Wendy
> How am I handling things? Well, mostly bumbling through life as usual. I had others tell me (esp. my sons) that I'm the perfect match for the absent-minded prof, myself. Full of tidbits of knowledge, great schemes, & never seem to remember the small mundane matters. Trouble is, some of things I forget aren't so small & mundane.
>
> People with ADD (me) typically have small working RAM. Post-it notes turn into Post-it hell with multi-coloured notes stuck up all over the place. I don't even see them. What I do is save those neon bright 8x12 papers that come in junk mail, blank on one side, & use them as my post-it note. I stick them up where I can't miss them - on the bathroom mirror or my tea bag cannister. :-)
>
> Organisation is the key. Unfortunately, I can disorganise faster than you can blink. I have to regularly go through my little piles of stuff, tossing out junk & reorganising. I've developed some good strategies over the years but my biggest hurdle is organising my time properly. I have a poor concept of time, how much has passed, how long it takes me to do something, how to parcel it out usefully, etc. Funny thing is, if you ask me what time it is (prompting me to think about it), I can you the time fairly closely without wearing a watch.
>
> Due to great disorganisational skills, I keep all vitally important info I need on the computer as a back-up in a few folders. I've yet to misplace my computer! And no more looking for scraps of paper that mysteriously vanish.
>
> I like the title of the book you recommend. I'll look it up. ADD books written for ADD people have never proved beneficial for me. This book sounds good though!
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 4, 2002, at 16:28:13
In reply to Re: your working memory » bookgurl99, posted by IsoM on June 3, 2002, at 13:09:53
IsoM, I've also been working with a naturopath on developing a healthier diet. I've noticed if I eat something very sugary or something I'm sensitive to (tomatoes, wheat, citrus, dairy) I will be more likely to be anxious, obsessed, or unable to focus. The effect can last for hours.
bookgurl99
Posted by IsoM on June 5, 2002, at 1:56:34
In reply to Re: ...handling things - how familiar » IsoM, posted by wendy b. on June 4, 2002, at 16:07:11
Wendy, I'll get back to you tomorrow with some good links to sites on ADD, okay? Pretty late right now.
Posted by IsoM on June 5, 2002, at 2:00:55
In reply to diet AND ADD symptoms, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 4, 2002, at 16:28:13
No food allergies of any sort & such, & my diet is good. I'm careful but not fanatical about what I eat. I used to manage a health food store long ago & make a point to eat very healthy (besides, it tastes WAY better).
I don't feel anxious or obsessive, just *very* easily distracted except when I'm hyperfocusing, at which time, I noticed nothing else except what I'm doing. :-)
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 7, 2002, at 8:06:36
In reply to Re: Adjusting to Illness, posted by bookgurl99 on June 3, 2002, at 8:49:39
Overcoming this demon is amazingly hard.
This week I've done positive things -- applied for jobs with benefits, started a photography class (developed negatives for first time!) -- and then really started to cry under the stress of it all last night. I felt so uncontrolled. (My partner woke up briefly, looked at me, then turned back to sleep.) But I also felt able to sleep afterwords.
This weekend I'm returning to my old job for the first time in 3 months. I'm working 39 (16 asleep) hours as a caretaker of disabled people. I'm relieved to earn the money, but terrified about my ability to handle everything. Will I regress? Will I have moments of confusion? severe anxiety?
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 7, 2002, at 8:08:42
In reply to ...handling things » bookgurl99, posted by IsoM on June 4, 2002, at 13:01:16
How do you handle tasks at work?
(Sometimes I have trouble remembering -- did I just do something? Are you like that?)
I'm re-entering the workforce ADD. How do you stay on top of things?
This is the end of the thread.
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