![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Fi on April 12, 2002, at 17:24:25
I know this is a lot more trivial than what a lot of you are coping with..
I wanted to say thanks again to the people who were supportive and had good ideas re dealing with the hoarding, when I posted about it several months ago. I particularly liked 'CHAOS' (cant have anyone over syndrome) and the idea of 15 mins each day.
I have done *some* sorting out, but not nearly as much as needed. My sister is coming to stay soon- I have 3 weeks to blitz the place (and will need to do it mainly at weekends). I'm sending this as I know some of you will know exactly how that feels, and will be with me in spirit as I get stuck in!!
Do any of you have 'packing dreams'? I have them regularly- in a situation where I have more stuff than I can possibly pack and a short time. Used to be in context of travelling/ moving house. Now its usually set in some wonderful location on holiday. I'm sick as a parrot when I wake up, at the waste of nervous energy in a silly dream. And that my brain can put me in a wonderful setting but then come up with this silly packing thing to spoil it!
Anyway, off to bed so good nights sleep before get stuck in with the bin bags and duster...!
Fi
Posted by mist on April 12, 2002, at 19:06:23
In reply to To fellow hoaders/hermits, posted by Fi on April 12, 2002, at 17:24:25
I've never had a packing dream but sometimes I imagine just throwing everything I have away. I don't have a lot--it's just too disorganized. Good luck with the blitz! -mist
> I know this is a lot more trivial than what a lot of you are coping with..
>
> I wanted to say thanks again to the people who were supportive and had good ideas re dealing with the hoarding, when I posted about it several months ago. I particularly liked 'CHAOS' (cant have anyone over syndrome) and the idea of 15 mins each day.
>
> I have done *some* sorting out, but not nearly as much as needed. My sister is coming to stay soon- I have 3 weeks to blitz the place (and will need to do it mainly at weekends). I'm sending this as I know some of you will know exactly how that feels, and will be with me in spirit as I get stuck in!!
>
> Do any of you have 'packing dreams'? I have them regularly- in a situation where I have more stuff than I can possibly pack and a short time. Used to be in context of travelling/ moving house. Now its usually set in some wonderful location on holiday. I'm sick as a parrot when I wake up, at the waste of nervous energy in a silly dream. And that my brain can put me in a wonderful setting but then come up with this silly packing thing to spoil it!
>
> Anyway, off to bed so good nights sleep before get stuck in with the bin bags and duster...!
>
> Fi
Posted by susan C on April 12, 2002, at 22:08:49
In reply to To fellow hoaders/hermits, posted by Fi on April 12, 2002, at 17:24:25
hi fi and mist and all,
I, unfortunately, or fortunately, dont dream about either...I do it. It is a sign to me I am entering manic. If I can control it, it works out pretty good, other times, months later, I think, oh no, I threw that all out, and it turns out I packed it in a box, stored away in the closet...or, i think Oh, that must be packed somewhere, and I, in fact, Threw It Out.The neighborhood now knows the front of my place is a good place to pick up great stuff.
One day I put food out.
Unfortunately it rained and the stuff that hadnt been taken (like the 12 pack of coke) (I warned the kid that took it it rots your teeth) kind of disintigrated.
mouse in a mouse hole
Posted by mist on April 13, 2002, at 0:24:09
In reply to Re: To fellow hoaders/hermits, posted by susan C on April 12, 2002, at 22:08:49
Your life sounds more interesting than mine. :)
> hi fi and mist and all,
> I, unfortunately, or fortunately, dont dream about either...I do it. It is a sign to me I am entering manic. If I can control it, it works out pretty good, other times, months later, I think, oh no, I threw that all out, and it turns out I packed it in a box, stored away in the closet...or, i think Oh, that must be packed somewhere, and I, in fact, Threw It Out.
>
> The neighborhood now knows the front of my place is a good place to pick up great stuff.
>
> One day I put food out.
>
> Unfortunately it rained and the stuff that hadnt been taken (like the 12 pack of coke) (I warned the kid that took it it rots your teeth) kind of disintigrated.
>
> mouse in a mouse hole
Posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 10:44:58
In reply to Re: To fellow hoaders/hermits, posted by susan C on April 12, 2002, at 22:08:49
> hi fi and mist and all,
> I, unfortunately, or fortunately, dont dream about either...I do it. It is a sign to me I am entering manic. If I can control it, it works out pretty good, other times, months later, I think, oh no, I threw that all out, and it turns out I packed it in a box, stored away in the closet...or, i think Oh, that must be packed somewhere, and I, in fact, Threw It Out.
>
> The neighborhood now knows the front of my place is a good place to pick up great stuff.
>
> One day I put food out.
>
> Unfortunately it rained and the stuff that hadnt been taken (like the 12 pack of coke) (I warned the kid that took it it rots your teeth) kind of disintigrated.
>
> mouse in a mouse holeSusan,
Is there a "term" for people that are *anti-hoarders*? Is it a form of OCD? This runs in my family, but I have a problem with throwing *too* much away! If it seems like it is unimportant or unneeded out it goes. I have thrown out part of my record collections at times whenever I have moved. Music liking is mood-dependent and if I am in the "wrong" mood when I am moving vinyl goes into the trash! Then later on (at the time of year I like the stuff I threw away) I am pissed at myself for pitching things out.
Mitch
Posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 11:32:00
In reply to Re: To fellow hoaders/hermits » susan C, posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 10:44:58
hi Mitch,
Maybe "agitation" Anger? It has been sometimes referred to as a pyschotic Break through...Othertimes it happens when I am Creative and Organized, being very productive in a short period of time, solving many problems. Sometimes, When it happens, it is like riding a galloping horse and the rider is a novice...the horse appears to know where it is going, but the rider has NO CLUE. Sometimes what i get rid of or throw away or destroy is things I am frustrated with or have soemthing to do with my responsibilities. Sometimes I am angry at myself or someone close to me. Vicious is a word that comes to mind.I dont know, I have never seen a name...antihoarding i suppose is good, as I experience a kind of security, release or pleasure and it certainly contains some kind of "power".
Now we know who put the stuff in the "Dumpster" in "Dumpster Diving"
mouse in chaos
Posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 14:04:26
In reply to Re: To fellow hoaders/hermits, posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 11:32:00
> hi Mitch,
> Maybe "agitation" Anger? It has been sometimes referred to as a pyschotic Break through...Othertimes it happens when I am Creative and Organized, being very productive in a short period of time, solving many problems. Sometimes, When it happens, it is like riding a galloping horse and the rider is a novice...the horse appears to know where it is going, but the rider has NO CLUE. Sometimes what i get rid of or throw away or destroy is things I am frustrated with or have soemthing to do with my responsibilities. Sometimes I am angry at myself or someone close to me. Vicious is a word that comes to mind.
>
> I dont know, I have never seen a name...antihoarding i suppose is good, as I experience a kind of security, release or pleasure and it certainly contains some kind of "power".
>
> Now we know who put the stuff in the "Dumpster" in "Dumpster Diving"
>
> mouse in chaos
Oh Mouse,This is a character trait I have had for a l o n g time. My Mom is a compulsive cleaner (that woman in the Dexamyl commercial resembles her somewhat)-so I wonder if it is really just a different permutation of a cleaning ritual? Come to think of it I look at it as "cleaning up" or "straightening things up". It is an anti-clutter response. I am looking at some clutter now that is going to get "straightened up" here in a few minutes! Trust me, when I get angry the last thing I do is start cleaning! :-) Well, my environment doesn't exactly look stark and clinical, but it does have some level of visual organization to it. Interestingly, SSRI meds seem to facilitate decluttering-so maybe it not an obsession or psychosis, just something normal)? Just got a better idea... It is a response to my ADHD! Clutter clouds up my visual surroundings and makes it that much harder to focus on anything. You notice how folks have to "clear their desk" before they can start something? That's it.
"Dumpster Diving"?
never saw it. I will
have to watch that one.
Mitch
Posted by IsoM on April 13, 2002, at 14:26:34
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/hermits/declutterers » susan C, posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 14:04:26
Mitch, PLEASE come over & help me declutter!!! I agree with you - the need to remove clutter to help us poor ADDers focus better. But what do you do when there's so much clutter that you can wander about decluttering all day & nothing looks different? Just things 'cluttered' into different categories instead & I still manage to lose things as easily as before. There's times I wish for a tornado so I can use that as an excuse for my place.
Posted by beardedlady on April 13, 2002, at 15:44:45
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/hermits/declutterers » susan C, posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 14:04:26
I didn't read any of these posts before because it said "hoaders," and I had no idea what that was! Now I am enlightened. And I am also intrigued, as I don't have ADD, but my home looks like it does! There's crap EVERYWHERE! Right now, I am so swamped with work (and I can work in a mess, but I don't like to) that I have no time to clean.
I had a ceiling fan installed two weeks ago. The giant styrofoam holder from the box has become my daughter's toy, and it is still in the living room, the little pieces flying around once in awhile when we walk by it, not picking it up. And now that there are dollar stores on every corner, I have eighteen hundred garden stakes with bees and ladybugs and moving parts and whirlygigs. Every spot on my walls is taken by some large, multi-colored, multi-media artwork. (Even my walls are faux finished, so there's something to look at behind the paintings!)
I have tried to declutter, tried to cut down on my trinkets and knicknacks. But some of them are just so terrific. In fact, I just had a friend's poem, which was done on letterpress, framed, and I have nowhere to put it, so it's on my dining room floor, waiting with another painting for some piece of art to die.
Now I know I must tackle this task. But I am writing this post to avoid the call of dustmites. Time to get the trash bags.
dirty beardy : )>
Posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 15:51:00
In reply to Clutter and ADHD » Ritch, posted by IsoM on April 13, 2002, at 14:26:34
> Mitch, PLEASE come over & help me declutter!!! I agree with you - the need to remove clutter to help us poor ADDers focus better. But what do you do when there's so much clutter that you can wander about decluttering all day & nothing looks different? Just things 'cluttered' into different categories instead & I still manage to lose things as easily as before. There's times I wish for a tornado so I can use that as an excuse for my place.
Hi,I wouldn't mind helping, but it would be one hell of a drive, whew :-)! Speaking of tornados, my Mom called me Thursday evening and told me the sirens were going off-I guess they had a dust-buster just outside of Wichita. Actually *fire* makes an even better decluttering device! Just as long as I am not around! Wow, so you actually "categorize" things? My desk at work has one big drawer. All new paperwork I see I just put it in there face down into a PILE that is already there. When the pile reaches to the top of the drawer then I take it all out at once and start with the oldest stuff (facing me) and start throwing it onto the office floor (pretty much in the same place). When I come across something that I think I might need to keep it goes face down on an adjacent newer pile. That continues until I get through the old pile-then I take the *new* pile and put it face down back in to the drawer, pick up the dishevelled discard pile and put it into the recycle receptacle. There! I have one folder in my email at work: it is called "Stuff". I do it the same way (go through "Age of Mail" and start putting little trash baskets next to it all)-hit F9 and pitch it all in one whack. This dexedrine I am taking isn't working as well as the Adderall did. This stuff makes me tired and groggy.
Mitch
Posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 15:51:24
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/hermits/declutterers » susan C, posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 14:04:26
Is when you sort through dumpsters or trash bins for treasures others consider trash.
I dont Know when I first heard of it, probably rates/dates there in my vocabulary with "hang ten" and "hotdogging it".
A dated mouse
Posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 15:58:48
In reply to Re: Clutter and ADHD » IsoM, posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 15:51:00
There is a Three Times System Of Management. It is called that because you dont respond to something until someone has asked you at least three times. By then you know they are serimouse. For example, if you are in purchasing in a university, you dont respond until someone has asked you to requisition a pencil three times. Then you know they really need it.
Another important part of managing space, is if you clear out an area, to be sure and EXPAND what remains to take up the space...other wise, other things will appear in the night via planet fruikett and fill up the space you have just emptied.
Signed
Dr. M. Mouse PhD
Director of Laboratory Sciences and Spacial Systems
Posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 18:05:16
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/clutterers, posted by beardedlady on April 13, 2002, at 15:44:45
> I didn't read any of these posts before because it said "hoaders," and I had no idea what that was! Now I am enlightened. And I am also intrigued, as I don't have ADD, but my home looks like it does! There's crap EVERYWHERE! Right now, I am so swamped with work (and I can work in a mess, but I don't like to) that I have no time to clean.
>
> I had a ceiling fan installed two weeks ago. The giant styrofoam holder from the box has become my daughter's toy, and it is still in the living room, the little pieces flying around once in awhile when we walk by it, not picking it up. And now that there are dollar stores on every corner, I have eighteen hundred garden stakes with bees and ladybugs and moving parts and whirlygigs. Every spot on my walls is taken by some large, multi-colored, multi-media artwork. (Even my walls are faux finished, so there's something to look at behind the paintings!)
>
> I have tried to declutter, tried to cut down on my trinkets and knicknacks. But some of them are just so terrific. In fact, I just had a friend's poem, which was done on letterpress, framed, and I have nowhere to put it, so it's on my dining room floor, waiting with another painting for some piece of art to die.
>
> Now I know I must tackle this task. But I am writing this post to avoid the call of dustmites. Time to get the trash bags.
>
> dirty beardy : )>
Hi Beardy,You obviously have a lot of "momentos" (sp?) that were created that you intend to keep. The question: Where to put the stuff? Everything I create is improvised on the spot and is gone in a flash (mostly just mental refuse). I try to write things down when I can. I have sticky notes with lists of all types stuck everywhere. The trouble is that the contents on the lists lose my interest the next day :( I have a coworker who knows how to organize things REAL well. She has those big packing cans that used to contain powedered chemicals (in plastic bags) that came in to pharmaceutical companies. You know-the brown ones that have the locking lids that snap shut? Well, she has got numbers marked on every can and has a cross-reference (not on a computer) that tells her EXACTLY everything in any of the cans. If anything comes out-it goes back in the SAME can. I have thought about mentioning Prozac a couple of times..
Mitch
Posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 18:08:43
In reply to Dumpster Diving..., posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 15:51:24
> Is when you sort through dumpsters or trash bins for treasures others consider trash.
>
> I dont Know when I first heard of it, probably rates/dates there in my vocabulary with "hang ten" and "hotdogging it".
>
> A dated mouse
Oh yeah! I thought you were talking about a title of a *movie*. Where I used to live I used to watch people digging in there. I remember one time I had a printer that failed and I placed it in there and WAITED for "them" to show up. Sure enough, at about the same time-there they were! I saw the pleased look on their face when they fetched the failed printer from the dumpster-it made my day.Mitch
Posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 18:14:19
In reply to Three Times System Of Management, posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 15:58:48
> There is a Three Times System Of Management. It is called that because you dont respond to something until someone has asked you at least three times. By then you know they are serimouse. For example, if you are in purchasing in a university, you dont respond until someone has asked you to requisition a pencil three times. Then you know they really need it.
>
> Another important part of managing space, is if you clear out an area, to be sure and EXPAND what remains to take up the space...other wise, other things will appear in the night via planet fruikett and fill up the space you have just emptied.
>
> Signed
> Dr. M. Mouse PhD
> Director of Laboratory Sciences and Spacial SystemsI guess I must be an *anti-PackRat*!
I will get the newest version of SpaceMaker pronto!
Posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 1:55:42
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/clutterers, posted by beardedlady on April 13, 2002, at 15:44:45
This thread is priceless! At last, something to make me laugh after Sar's death.
I was 'trying' to clean the living room of a pile of folded laundry that had collected on this large carboard box. When I finally cleaned the last of it off, I wondered where the box had come from. When I opened it, in it was the styrofoam, smaller boxes, & plastic from the computer my son had bought - four months ago!!! I felt so ashamed but it was still so funny. We're pathetic. I often thought if I ever got killed in an accident, I'd die if anyone had to see my place to straighten affairs out.
Posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 2:06:17
In reply to Re: Clutter and ADHD » IsoM, posted by Ritch on April 13, 2002, at 15:51:00
Yeah, Mitch, I really do try to categorise. I mean, I can't have kitchen doo-hickies with my art supplies, or unusual plant seeds with bathroom stuff. I wish I had a place with one long wall entirely of storage space covered with sliding doors. Inside, everything would be shelves & drawers alphabetically labelled. Right now, for example, I keep my assorted small tools for the home in a large covered cardboard box. But as my assortment grows (as my needs increase), I'll soon need some drawers rather than just a box. Multiply that sort of thing with all the interests I have & tend to pursue, & life gets cluttered.
I'm thinking of becoming a nomad, but every time I give thought to that, I wonder I'd tote about my music & books - not to mention my garden, houseplants, cats, seashell collection, etc, etc. :-P
Posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 2:10:33
In reply to Dumpster Diving..., posted by susan C on April 13, 2002, at 15:51:24
Mine's not quite dumpster diving, but some of my best treasures have come from the dump. How about beautiful dishes with a small chip out of one corner, or a nice silk blouse, or some 14K gold jewellery (my sister-in-law found that). One friend said she found the best things there - she was even considering looking for a good husband there next. ;-)
Posted by Fi on April 15, 2002, at 11:59:26
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/clutterers » beardedlady, posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 1:55:42
Oh yes- know that one!! I also had the experience someone else wondered about when I mentioned this before- being burgled then having to explain to the police that my flat always looked this untidy (and not confessing to the fact I had actually done some tidying up before they came!)
Fiona
Posted by fiona on April 16, 2002, at 8:55:36
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/clutterers, posted by Fi on April 15, 2002, at 11:59:26
I have a system to tidying my house; I move all the crap in the messy room into another room and leave it there until I can't get moving in that room either, so I then move back into the original messy room. This has become a perpetual task which keeps me occupied since I have been off work. My hoarding, though, has gotten out of hand I think. I was attempting to clear out my brief case into all the important stuff that should be in there and put all the crap in the bin. After several hours of moving shuffling and sorting, I still couldn't get the briefcase closed and the only thing in the "to throw out pile" was a cardboard picture mount which even then I couldn't bear to part with, so I put it in another pile of "to sort out later".
Oh dear, I think I'm beyond help!
Posted by Fi on April 16, 2002, at 12:41:15
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/clutterers, posted by fiona on April 16, 2002, at 8:55:36
Not entirely! You can have a shot at it, which is something! One approach is to aim at just 15 mins a day of sorting out- doesnt seem quite that appalling. And chuck out anything that isnt beautiful or being used *now* (eg cant keep clothes havent worn for years in case one day...)
Maybe you really do need all the stuff, and its getting more storage that is necessary. But as a fellow squirrel, I get very suspicious of myself when I think that something 'might be useful one day' and wont chuck it out!
Sometimes I also remind myself its not the end of the world. Its mainly visitors who are a mixed blesssing- just cant have them stepping over heaps!
Fi
Posted by IsoM on April 16, 2002, at 16:31:59
In reply to Re: To fellow hoarders/clutterers » fiona, posted by Fi on April 16, 2002, at 12:41:15
Posted by Fi on April 17, 2002, at 8:17:35
In reply to Visitors: or getting lost among the ruins :-) (nm) » Fi, posted by IsoM on April 16, 2002, at 16:31:59
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.