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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Noa on April 1, 2002, at 17:59:58
In reply to To old-time PB posters, posted by judy1 on March 31, 2002, at 12:19:49
Judy, today is my first check in for a long time, so I can't comment on recent board happenings. However, I have noticed, over the more than 2.5 years of participating on this board that negativity/hostility ebbs and flows. It got really horrible for a while, if you remember--prompting me to take a hiatus because I felt attacked by a particular poster. Then it became much more peaceful, in part due to Dr. Bob having separated out the different boards, so that complaints about process went to the administration board. Perhaps you got used to the relative peacefulness, and now a cycle of negativity is around? I don't know (as I said, I can't gauge how negative because I haven't been around and even when I was, I was not paying attention to a lot because my time on the board is limited).
Another possibility is that you are in a more peaceful place and have more pressing priorities, which can sometimes make stuff like that stand out more? Again, just a thought.
Posted by judy1 on April 1, 2002, at 18:04:17
In reply to Re: But couldn't this be part of the problem? » Dinah, posted by Greg on April 1, 2002, at 17:37:23
Greg,
I think you expressed it really well- there was a sense of 'community'. I remember all-night vigils with suicidal posters that actually made a difference in a life. Personally, I remember the incredible support I've gotten in the past too. I still do, but there's a fear now of actually opening a post and being afraid of what's there. Maybe it is partially the increase in posters, but I really miss the kindness and sense of family we had. Take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on April 1, 2002, at 18:10:57
In reply to Re: To old-time PB posters » judy1, posted by IsoM on March 31, 2002, at 13:20:45
Thank you for the sweet wishes; I feel really sad about not being able to nurse- but I try to make up for it with more closeness. I thought it was interesting that you've noticed a difference in just a few months of posting- I guess that reinforces the theory of ebb and flows. Take care- judy
Posted by judy1 on April 1, 2002, at 18:14:40
In reply to Re: To old-time PB posters » judy1, posted by Noa on April 1, 2002, at 17:59:58
I agree with your observations of 'cycles', but I still feel like there was much more of a sense of community back then, even with the occasional angry poster. I hope you are well- judy
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 1, 2002, at 18:55:29
In reply to Re: To old-time PB posters » Noa, posted by judy1 on April 1, 2002, at 18:14:40
judy, greg, noa? any suggestions are appreciated!!
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on April 1, 2002, at 20:13:53
In reply to how can we get back to that sense of community?, posted by Krazy Kat on April 1, 2002, at 18:55:29
Posted by Shar on April 1, 2002, at 20:31:43
In reply to To old-time PB posters, posted by judy1 on March 31, 2002, at 12:19:49
Before I read any of the responses I will say that things don't feel more negative to me, necessarily, but much more scattered. Less focused (on PSB) on the support end of things. Perhaps a better way to say that is that not as many people seem to write for and/or get support.
I'd say the SOCIAL in PSB is the current atmosphere. I'm waiting for a recipe exchange.
Shar
> I was curious if any of you- Scott, Mark, Cam, Noa, etc. have noticed a change (for the negative) in the tone of posts here compared to say 2 years ago? I was speaking to my pdoc who also runs a board and he agreed with me concerning his own. Any opinions? Thanks-j
Posted by kazoo on April 1, 2002, at 21:57:37
In reply to To old-time PB posters, posted by judy1 on March 31, 2002, at 12:19:49
> I was curious if any of you- Scott, Mark, Cam, Noa, etc. have noticed a change (for the negative) in the tone of posts here compared to say 2 years ago? I was speaking to my pdoc who also runs a board and he agreed with me concerning his own. Any opinions? Thanks-j
Is it better to be an "old timer" than a "two timer"?
I was once referred to as an "old timer" by ... well, I don't want to mention names here, but there's a "Dr." in front of his name ... anyway, I was aghast with such horror that my dentures fell out. It took me weeks to find them since I can hardly see through these coke-bottle glasses, and I can't hear so well either ... what's that?
As people get older, their brains, the center of thought, do, too.
So ... I forgot the question already.
kazoo
Posted by tinaboo on April 2, 2002, at 7:36:23
In reply to Re: But couldn't this be part of the problem? » Dinah, posted by Greg on April 1, 2002, at 17:37:23
Ditto to everything he said. It's precisely how I feel too. I'm just not as good at saying it.
That "family" feeling is gone. I think when I first came here, I was in a mess and needed a lot of support and I got it which really surprised me. A bunch of strangers cared about me. I don't see the same thing anymore. These strangers remain strangers or they try hard to push others away with their words. Why come here for support if you are just looking for a fight?
I know emotions ebb and flow but there used to be a closeness, real concern and care for another person. I don't see much of that anymore.
I see a lot of inappropriate humour and/or bickering and anger. I see very little support going on and when there is, it quickly deteriorates into a shouting match.Perhaps it's because we know we really can't help that other person. I mean, you're 100 or 500 or more miles away and you know there's someone in pain. A thousand someones crying out in the dark. It's overwhelming and sometimes the frustration of that reality sparks internal conflict which translates to conflict on the board.
Just my .02
later
Tina
Posted by wendy b. on April 2, 2002, at 9:31:32
In reply to Re: To old-time PB posters YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! » judy1, posted by kazoo on April 1, 2002, at 21:57:37
As usual, Kazoo has taken the conversation to another plane entirely - THANK GOD!! (Even at a stressful time, Kazoo, I hope you are healing...)
I, too, was once referred to by Dr Bob as an old-timer. Wow. If I remember correctly, I lurked for 6 months, starting late in '00, then started participating toward the beginning of '01, and posted a lot during that year, cuz I was having some whopper of a major depressive episode, followed by many months of struggle with alternating depression and hypomanic episodes. I had a lot of issues with meds, asked questions on plain vanilla PB, and settled into a routine with neurontin as a mood-stabilizer, wellbutrin as my happy-pill, xanax for insomnia and bouts of anxiety, etc.
People were sympathetic and helpful, although I felt my role was more of a support to others, and I have issues with asking for others to support me (this is one of my big probelms, working on it in therapy). I hung around here with people who understood, though, and it WAS a fantastic support to me, in that I felt I was not alone, that others had gone through the same mood-disorder things, and many had worse problems, like suicidality... I learned a lot about how people cope with things like cutting, etc., why they do it... Sometimes I felt I was a fly on the wall, almost spying or eavesdropping into the lives of others. (It met my need for High Drama?) Other times I felt very needed, as Judy says, all-night suicide watches, etc. Like the back cover of a book with the reviewer saying "I laughed a lot," or "Riveting!"
I found, however, that I was sitting on the internet and the board a lot. Trying to find work and trying to get certified as a teacher, and all the stuff that goes with single parenting put a brake on my spending time here. I am trying to date (via match.com - check it out, lonelyhearts!) and have met about 5 different men. Nice to even just hang out and drink coffee with new people. So trying to work toward getting my needs met, too, not just caring for my daughter and work.
I am also involved right now with two court cases. One in Family Court, my 10-yr old daughter wants more input on her visitation schedule with her dad. So the court appointed her a law guardian, and the ex and I each have attorneys. Hopefully it won't go to trial. The other case is sueing my former employer, Cornell University, in a federal ADA suit. That one has been difficult, emotionally, going over all the horror of being isolated and hounded by my boss after taking a 2-month disability leave. I was a mess with anxiety and depression, exacerbated by the boss's treatment of me. When I came back, everyone I worked with treated me like a leper, and I was fired after being told I was insubordinate and unable to do my work. So you can imagine how upsetting it is to go over this stuff, which happened almost 2 years ago, making timelines, answering discovery questions from the other side. A miserable job, making me more anxious and depressed. Therapy has helped a lot with this, though... So this has eaten into my time too, thus I have been an infrequent contributor lately.
As usual, Phil is right, the bickering and incivility just go with the territory. We're a bunch of nut-cases trying to work things out. Of course there are going to be people who are breaking down, having trouble with meds, etc., which might make their behavior argumentative, irritable, anxious, unkind. I know anger and irritability have been major symptoms/outcomes of my depression.
Part of learning how to deal with others might just be for people to be uncivil, have that pointed out by Dr Bob, and other members, and then work on appropriate alternate behaviors, and then keep posting. I have seen that happen many times here. There is the possibility for growth in this setting, kind of like group therapy, and I think people should take advantage of that on PSB. Sort of like practice here, before going to the 'outside world' and dealing with the humans in our family and work lives. So there will be difficulties on the board as people sort things out. Encouraging people to ignore certain posters who press their buttons...
Speaking of which, remember 'SalArmy 4Me' ? you old timers? He pressed a lot of people's buttons, we had some real fallout from that time. A lot of people experienced such frustration with him, mostly about religion and and its relation to a public message board, PSB and PB members asked him to refrain from prostletizing, and got very angry at the born-again, Salvation Army stuff. He often recommended medicines, and cited Medline abstracts (impuning that he was a real expert), that may or may not have worked for people, and loads of people got angry at him for that. I did too. The other biggie was that he encouraged people to self-medicate, and to buy meds online without prescriptions, and often cited web sites of foreign providers. Then he switched identities, and Dr Bob got frustrated too (for more, look at Psychobabble Administration, about 8 months, 1 yr back... Fascinating reading, there.) But I had to ignore him, just read his name and avoided whatever he posted. Lots of people couldn't do that, though, and I couldn't for other people who pushed MY buttons. Because we felt the Board was "ours," and rightly so. Once I e-mailed Dr Bob and said as much, and he encouraged me to feel that way, and for us to monitor each other and call each other on uncivil behavior.
So I guess it goes in cycles, and the Board may have some real incivility going on right now, I do notice it. But the benefits outweigh the inherent difficulties of the structure and the setting of a cyber-group-chat-therapy-help-support type of deal we have here with Dr Bob. He tries to run a tight ship, and people who want another captain have gone elsewhere, and that's probably all to the good. I think it's worth staying and fighting for this place, where we can hash out our 'stuff,' feel safe doing so (i.e., without getting blasted off the screen by others). So I come back often, even just lurking has its merits for me and for my life right now.
But this was one thread I had to respond to. Thanks for listening to me on my soapbox... (I know, I get that way).
All the best to everyone, oldies and newbies, and in-betweenbies...
Wendy
ps: Kazoo - it IS better to be an old-timer than a two-timer...
> Is it better to be an "old timer" than a "two timer"?
>
> I was once referred to as an "old timer" by ... well, I don't want to mention names here, but there's a "Dr." in front of his name ... anyway, I was aghast with such horror that my dentures fell out. It took me weeks to find them since I can hardly see through these coke-bottle glasses, and I can't hear so well either ... what's that?
>
> As people get older, their brains, the center of thought, do, too.
>
> So ... I forgot the question already.
>
> kazoo
Posted by Fi on April 2, 2002, at 10:15:10
In reply to To old-time PB posters, posted by judy1 on March 31, 2002, at 12:19:49
I'm not an old timer, and I never go to PB (and rarely to PBA these days). And I read a much smaller proportion of the PSB posts now, as they have increased but my browsing time hasnt.
So I am only partially qualified for this discussion!
I havent picked up on the 'bickering', but that may be just the posts I have read havent been the ones including it. There are still people who post wanting support, or to share how they are feeling. I've done it occasionally, tho I've been fortunate not to have been having any major problems.
I've tried to stop responding to peoples' posts by suggesting things to *do*, as I have learnt from the supportive posts I have received from others that reading that someone else is sympathetic, and wishes you well, can be plenty. Not that I always manage it, mind (apologies to those I have given irrelevant suggestions to!!)
Personally, the idea of 'all night vigils' with suicidal people scares me witless. Messages of support to suicidal people are very much part of this board, but also not an easy part of it. To be carrying on some sort of real time debate overnight would be too intense for me.
I do miss some of the posters who were around when I first started, but seem to have gone. They were often very wise- as well as sometimes funny!
Fi
Posted by mair on April 2, 2002, at 12:34:22
In reply to Re: ...YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! (long-ish) » kazoo, posted by wendy b. on April 2, 2002, at 9:31:32
I'm pleased that you're doing some good things for yourself and successfully dealing with some legitimate stressors, but your post highlights for me why I miss having you around more as much as I do (alot). I pretty much agree with everything you said and feel that you said it better than anyone else could.
Mair
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 2, 2002, at 13:45:45
In reply to Re: ...YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! (long-ish) » kazoo, posted by wendy b. on April 2, 2002, at 9:31:32
that was a great post. good luck with everything and please do look for support during this hectic time. :)
i do recall Sal's "issues" and he seems to have come back with all the force, but less of the controversy. of course, i could be missing some things.
i have to learn to avoid posts by folks who push my buttons, and graciously so, not bring attention to it.
i like your straightforward approach re: just posting, making mistakes sometimes and being called for it, then continuing to post and try to make it better. i think perhaps some, including myself, need to give dr. bob more room and not question how he is handling every "uncivil" remark.
thanks.
- kk
Posted by judy1 on April 2, 2002, at 17:02:47
In reply to Re: ...YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! (long-ish) » kazoo, posted by wendy b. on April 2, 2002, at 9:31:32
Even though it sounds as if you're going through an extremely stressful time, I was happy to see you and some of the others are still here. I don't know, maybe a sense of comfort knowing that people who have helped in the past are still out there lurking (just as I do quite often)... take care all-judy
Posted by Shar on April 3, 2002, at 0:22:12
In reply to I'm glad you and some others posted » wendy b., posted by judy1 on April 2, 2002, at 17:02:47
Posted by Greg on April 3, 2002, at 8:02:01
In reply to ooooh, remember boBB ? Woo hoo!!!!! (nm), posted by Shar on April 3, 2002, at 0:22:12
Posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 13:28:28
In reply to Re: ...YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! (long-ish) » wendy b., posted by mair on April 2, 2002, at 12:34:22
Thanks, Mair. I am in desperate need of a literary agent... What's your percentage of the cut on the advance from my novel???
Seriously, I do appreciate your wonderfully supportive messages - you've been so lovely to me in the past... I do have the goal that I'd like to write full-time, but no one will pay me to do that yet...
This week, I have an assignment to write about anger from my pdoc (the subject of last week's group therp session). I'll perhaps share with you and others? If I look at it as an 'assignment' with a due date, I can generally produce the words on paper. I also have some due dates for the ADA trial stuff that I mentioned. And yet I have been reading PB all day (my daughter is sick, we're in our jammies today).
But my drugs make me so un-motivated, I think. I seem to remember that I felt that way before drugs, but hey, that's a long time ago. Or else I have no self-discipline, but that seems like a harsh self-judgement... I wonder. The therapist says motivation is a type of discipline, and that discipline comes from the root word meaning 'disciple.' As in: being a disciple to oneself, taking care of oneself, etc.
BTW, I have also joined a women's reading group, and a women's artist group which gets together and draws and paints once a month. So I am trying to widen the circle of friends, which may help me feel connected again... At least it's a start...
So thanks again, Mair, for the support and friendliness, it's great to hear from you...
Wendy
> I'm pleased that you're doing some good things for yourself and successfully dealing with some legitimate stressors, but your post highlights for me why I miss having you around more as much as I do (alot). I pretty much agree with everything you said and feel that you said it better than anyone else could.
>
> Mair
Posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 13:43:59
In reply to thanks, wendy..., posted by Krazy Kat on April 2, 2002, at 13:45:45
Hey Kelly:
Thanks to you! You sound like you're feeling better. Have you been writing? I saw your posts about civility and Dr Bob's interventions, and see you've posted again to PB Admin regarding this...
It is difficult, and when in hypomanic mode, I too could get awfully worked up over these things on the board. And then I just said to myself: hey, aren't there enough stressors in daily life, that I have to go to PB & PSB to get some more??? Argghhh...
BTW, I promised many moons ago to send you some info on teaching in NY state. Here is the url:
http://www.highered.nysed.gov/tcert/
Also check with your local BOCES (Board of Cooperative Educational Services), who generally have a resource person to help people with credentials, and actually send them to the state for you...
I have found the system Byzantine, to say the least, but the web site looks like it's been re-vamped, maybe there is more/better info. My problem is that I have a master's degree, but lack any education credits, so I have to take 18 credit hrs. of ed courses, then take the exams... How I pay for the classes is a big question... the state needs teachers, and it does nothing to support people like me in career change mode. So I get frustrated...
Ayway, I asked Dr Bob on the Admin site what Sal's new name was, but he might not answer (what is it??) Would love to see him in action again...
Also: please see my Provigil question on regular PB, an add-on to your exchange with IsoM...
later,
Wendy
> that was a great post. good luck with everything and please do look for support during this hectic time. :)
>
> i do recall Sal's "issues" and he seems to have come back with all the force, but less of the controversy. of course, i could be missing some things.
>
> i have to learn to avoid posts by folks who push my buttons, and graciously so, not bring attention to it.
>
> i like your straightforward approach re: just posting, making mistakes sometimes and being called for it, then continuing to post and try to make it better. i think perhaps some, including myself, need to give dr. bob more room and not question how he is handling every "uncivil" remark.
>
> thanks.
>
> - kk
Posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 13:47:34
In reply to I'm glad you and some others posted » wendy b., posted by judy1 on April 2, 2002, at 17:02:47
> Even though it sounds as if you're going through an extremely stressful time, I was happy to see you and some of the others are still here. I don't know, maybe a sense of comfort knowing that people who have helped in the past are still out there lurking (just as I do quite often)... take care all-judy
Thanks Judy. I hope all is well for you right now. Some big changes recently, right? Yeah, we 'old-timers' lurk around, making sure the neighborhood is safe...yours,
Wendy
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 3, 2002, at 14:30:56
In reply to Re: thanks, wendy... » Krazy Kat , posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 13:43:59
I'm fairly certain sal is posting under TSA West now, but i don't think I actually have seen him confirm that.
i'm "even" :). 2000 mg Depakote - it's a lot. tired. i need energy badly. dishes are piling up in the sink, but i am not suicidal. hubby and mom have been so worried, that i need to be at least stable for a while. my pdoc called the other night to check on me - wasn't that nice? i bet not many do that.
thank you for asking. will look at your other post.
- kk
Posted by mair on April 3, 2002, at 16:40:16
In reply to Re: ...YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! (long-ish) » mair, posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 13:28:28
Wendy
As soon as you finish you're current projects, could you take up the job of writing the letter that my therapist thinks I should maybe write to my father? Everytime I try to write this one in my head or even put pen to paper, to much under-the-surface anger comes out. I'd even pay you (-:
Seriously, do share with us the stuff you write on anger. It always seems to be a relevant issue with the depressed "we."
Mair
Posted by tinaboo on April 3, 2002, at 20:13:17
In reply to thanks for the info wendy, posted by Krazy Kat on April 3, 2002, at 14:30:56
> I'm fairly certain sal is posting under TSA West now, but i don't think I actually have seen him confirm that.
Actually, some months ago, he signed one of his posts "all the best, Sal"
I think it's safe to say they are one in the same.
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 16:28:59
In reply to Re: ...YE OL' TIMERS UNITE! (long-ish) » kazoo, posted by wendy b. on April 2, 2002, at 9:31:32
>Part of learning how to deal with others might just be for people to be uncivil, have that pointed out by Dr Bob, and other members, and then work on appropriate alternate behaviors, and then keep posting.
Amen! I know I've gotten HUGE value out of Dr. Bob's form of correction, which never ever shames the correctee--which is really the only learning that "takes."
I have an inkling what--or shall I say who-- sparked recent concern about Negativity and "Attacks." I know I went over the line posting to Andyboy--but you really never know the Why. Why someone posts the things they do. Since I've been back on the board this spring, I don't recall at all seeing *real* attacks such as happened last fall. Maybe someone can point me to a link?
Here's the skinny on my "negative" post. I write a lot on on speaking truth to power as a woman. The night I posted to Andyboy, I was tired. . and without reallizing it, at a certain point went over the line into Writing, which is means to the general reader.
Of course it reads like I was talking to . . .and of course that was not civil. But I thought you might like to know what was actually going on with the "attacker."
I am guilty of and sorry for going off on one of my rants in the wrong venue, of not attending to the rules and honoring the real person, Andyboy. Writing is largely a matter of Going Into The Flow.
A difficult part of my illness is attending Mindfully to that flow. Hard to explain, but I hope my overall record here shows me not to be a "negative" poster!
Zo
Posted by beardedlady on April 4, 2002, at 16:44:39
In reply to The Attacker speaks! ;-), posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 16:28:59
Very cool. Glad you're back.
beardy : )>
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 20:07:12
In reply to You're great, Zo! » Zo, posted by beardedlady on April 4, 2002, at 16:44:39
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