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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by trouble on February 10, 2002, at 15:41:59
B/c that's what I want, a degree in English, but does that have any cachet in today's world of niche-driven technological specialization?
The research I've seen does not bode well for earning a living w/ a degree in the humanities but I wonder if there's anyone out there who has done it and has no regrets.
I've heard people say they wished they could do it over again, get the degree in something profitable and study humanities on their own. It makes sense, but whose gonna teach me how to read Shakespeare and that whole gang? I've tried to learn on my own, and it won't do.
I'm single, have a documented learning disability, am in my mid-40s, come from lower-working class roots, no one in my family graduated High School, I have 40 college credits in general studies, and clean houses for $. Studying English under these conditions seems illicit, and indulgent, stupid, immature, I'm sure you're familiar w/ the admonitions. Paralyzing. But I'm thiscloseto making up my mind to go for it anyway.
Does that sound supportable, given my deficits on top of today's economy?thanks,
trouble
Posted by paula on February 10, 2002, at 16:26:47
In reply to Is liberal arts degree worth anything?, posted by trouble on February 10, 2002, at 15:41:59
Oh boy, this is a hot-button topic for me, so I'll try to be succinct and low key. I think a liberal arts degree is better -- more useful and more enriching -- than most. It's a simple matter of "teaching someone to fish rather than giving them a fish to eat." The notion that education is about learning facts is completely bogus. The information age we live in makes it tempting to think that somehow if we cram more facts into our brains that we'll be smarter or more valuable. But facts are inert. If you want facts, buy an encyclopedia. A liberal arts degree, whether English, Anthropology, Art History, Music (my degree), Italian (my minor), will teach you how to think critically, how to assess evidence, how to wage arguments, how to think both inside and outside the box, how to come to questions with an open mind. I think it's the best preparation for life, and the truest expression of "education." And, btw, liberal arts graduates are highly prized by medical and law schools.
Ok, I'll stop now before I really get carried away.
Your resident fan (and practitioner of) the _studia humanitatis_,
paula
> B/c that's what I want, a degree in English, but does that have any cachet in today's world of niche-driven technological specialization?
> The research I've seen does not bode well for earning a living w/ a degree in the humanities but I wonder if there's anyone out there who has done it and has no regrets.
> I've heard people say they wished they could do it over again, get the degree in something profitable and study humanities on their own. It makes sense, but whose gonna teach me how to read Shakespeare and that whole gang? I've tried to learn on my own, and it won't do.
> I'm single, have a documented learning disability, am in my mid-40s, come from lower-working class roots, no one in my family graduated High School, I have 40 college credits in general studies, and clean houses for $. Studying English under these conditions seems illicit, and indulgent, stupid, immature, I'm sure you're familiar w/ the admonitions. Paralyzing. But I'm thiscloseto making up my mind to go for it anyway.
> Does that sound supportable, given my deficits on top of today's economy?
>
> thanks,
> trouble
Posted by ST on February 10, 2002, at 18:12:34
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything? » trouble, posted by paula on February 10, 2002, at 16:26:47
Paula says some really great stuff to think about. Facts are inert. Study something you're passionate about, not something you think you should. Go for it and don't look back.
Sarah
PS:
I have a liberal arts degree....
> Oh boy, this is a hot-button topic for me, so I'll try to be succinct and low key. I think a liberal arts degree is better -- more useful and more enriching -- than most. It's a simple matter of "teaching someone to fish rather than giving them a fish to eat." The notion that education is about learning facts is completely bogus. The information age we live in makes it tempting to think that somehow if we cram more facts into our brains that we'll be smarter or more valuable. But facts are inert. If you want facts, buy an encyclopedia. A liberal arts degree, whether English, Anthropology, Art History, Music (my degree), Italian (my minor), will teach you how to think critically, how to assess evidence, how to wage arguments, how to think both inside and outside the box, how to come to questions with an open mind. I think it's the best preparation for life, and the truest expression of "education." And, btw, liberal arts graduates are highly prized by medical and law schools.
>
> Ok, I'll stop now before I really get carried away.
>
> Your resident fan (and practitioner of) the _studia humanitatis_,
> paula
>
>
> > B/c that's what I want, a degree in English, but does that have any cachet in today's world of niche-driven technological specialization?
> > The research I've seen does not bode well for earning a living w/ a degree in the humanities but I wonder if there's anyone out there who has done it and has no regrets.
> > I've heard people say they wished they could do it over again, get the degree in something profitable and study humanities on their own. It makes sense, but whose gonna teach me how to read Shakespeare and that whole gang? I've tried to learn on my own, and it won't do.
> > I'm single, have a documented learning disability, am in my mid-40s, come from lower-working class roots, no one in my family graduated High School, I have 40 college credits in general studies, and clean houses for $. Studying English under these conditions seems illicit, and indulgent, stupid, immature, I'm sure you're familiar w/ the admonitions. Paralyzing. But I'm thiscloseto making up my mind to go for it anyway.
> > Does that sound supportable, given my deficits on top of today's economy?
> >
> > thanks,
> > trouble
Posted by Shar on February 10, 2002, at 19:56:45
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything?, posted by ST on February 10, 2002, at 18:12:34
I think you should study what you love, and if it is liberal arts, go for it.
I also think it is good to have skills to fall back on to support yourself. Skillsets are probably sets of facts, but I like facts, myself. For example, a minor in computer science or journalism or business would IMO be a good idea.
For that matter, having something to fall back on doesn't even have to come from college. It would be very feasible to learn a skill in another environment that would give you security in self-support.
Shar
Posted by ST on February 11, 2002, at 5:03:39
In reply to Include something to fall back on, posted by Shar on February 10, 2002, at 19:56:45
> I think you should study what you love, and if it is liberal arts, go for it.
>
> I also think it is good to have skills to fall back on to support yourself.
I agree with Shar. Study what you love. But also learn some skills "to fall back on". I know you won't want to be cleaning houses a few years from now. You sound terribly smart. I'm sure you're a quick learner.Do you have a computer at home? Perhaps you could do some kind of work from home....in addition to studying what you love.
Sarah
Posted by jay on February 11, 2002, at 13:01:14
In reply to Is liberal arts degree worth anything?, posted by trouble on February 10, 2002, at 15:41:59
Well, there are jobs that you can really use a B.A. in liberal arts, or anything in the humanities in. A couple of areas you could look at going into..
-teaching
-counselling
-law
-journalismCounselling, and working with young kids in particular, is a field that is just 'on fire' these days. Teachers are always much needed, especially since many are retiring.
Don't believe the hype about the whole 'technology' field. The computer world, and the whole 'dot com' thing, are falling apart. Don't even "think" about it if you have no desire to work in that field.
Go after what you really want to do. You will be much happier.
Best wishes..
Jay
> B/c that's what I want, a degree in English, but does that have any cachet in today's world of niche-driven technological specialization?
> The research I've seen does not bode well for earning a living w/ a degree in the humanities but I wonder if there's anyone out there who has done it and has no regrets.
> I've heard people say they wished they could do it over again, get the degree in something profitable and study humanities on their own. It makes sense, but whose gonna teach me how to read Shakespeare and that whole gang? I've tried to learn on my own, and it won't do.
> I'm single, have a documented learning disability, am in my mid-40s, come from lower-working class roots, no one in my family graduated High School, I have 40 college credits in general studies, and clean houses for $. Studying English under these conditions seems illicit, and indulgent, stupid, immature, I'm sure you're familiar w/ the admonitions. Paralyzing. But I'm thiscloseto making up my mind to go for it anyway.
> Does that sound supportable, given my deficits on top of today's economy?
>
> thanks,
> trouble
Posted by paula on February 11, 2002, at 17:49:36
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything? » trouble, posted by jay on February 11, 2002, at 13:01:14
Yes, I agree with Jay on this. And (*trying not to wax too philosophical*) I'm not at all convinced by the notion that "what you love" and "what you do" are or of necessity must be separate things. And separating "skills" from "the humanities" is equally questionable, implying that if you've studied Shakespeare you somehow aren't really skilled. The reason, as Jay points out, that liberal arts degrees are great for lawyers is that studying history or language or literature or music teaches critical thinking--most certainly a skill, and one that underlies most other useful skills. Gosh, hope I'm not coming off hostile! I'm aiming for "passionate." Apologies if it's not working....
paula
> Well, there are jobs that you can really use a B.A. in liberal arts, or anything in the humanities in. A couple of areas you could look at going into..
>
> -teaching
> -counselling
> -law
> -journalism
>
> Counselling, and working with young kids in particular, is a field that is just 'on fire' these days. Teachers are always much needed, especially since many are retiring.
>
> Don't believe the hype about the whole 'technology' field. The computer world, and the whole 'dot com' thing, are falling apart. Don't even "think" about it if you have no desire to work in that field.
>
> Go after what you really want to do. You will be much happier.
>
> Best wishes..
> Jay
>
>
> > B/c that's what I want, a degree in English, but does that have any cachet in today's world of niche-driven technological specialization?
> > The research I've seen does not bode well for earning a living w/ a degree in the humanities but I wonder if there's anyone out there who has done it and has no regrets.
> > I've heard people say they wished they could do it over again, get the degree in something profitable and study humanities on their own. It makes sense, but whose gonna teach me how to read Shakespeare and that whole gang? I've tried to learn on my own, and it won't do.
> > I'm single, have a documented learning disability, am in my mid-40s, come from lower-working class roots, no one in my family graduated High School, I have 40 college credits in general studies, and clean houses for $. Studying English under these conditions seems illicit, and indulgent, stupid, immature, I'm sure you're familiar w/ the admonitions. Paralyzing. But I'm thiscloseto making up my mind to go for it anyway.
> > Does that sound supportable, given my deficits on top of today's economy?
> >
> > thanks,
> > trouble
Posted by Noa on February 12, 2002, at 18:36:18
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything? » jay, posted by paula on February 11, 2002, at 17:49:36
I also heard/read somewhere not long ago that major companies are actually looking for liberal arts grads rather than those who specialize in business,etc. because they are realizing the importance of a broad fund of knowledge, good reading and writing skills, and the kind of analytical skills developed in liberal arts education. If I can locate the source, I'll post it here.
I guess it also depends on where you want to be in 5, 10 years, etc. And, how motivated could you be if you studied something that you do not have any passion for? Ie, balancing the practical goal-oriented aspect of the decision with the tuning in to your passion side of the decision.
Is there a career counselor available to you through the college? Sometimes that can be a good resource, too, in exploring how you could apply your learning to a career.
Posted by trouble on February 12, 2002, at 23:14:38
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything?, posted by Noa on February 12, 2002, at 18:36:18
Thanks for the support. Paula, you sound like you really know what you're talking about, not hostile at all.
For me it's always been a duty to help people w/ their problems, so I left broadcasting, which was a gas, to study social work, b/c it's solemn and honorable. But I flunked remedial math 11 times before passing it, and I don't want to even think about statistics. My friend said who am I trying to kid, we both know you'll be sitting in the lecture writing poems in your notebook. So, after 2 years of paralysis I figure I might as well do what I stand a chance of completing-study writing poems.
Only problem is I don't understand literature. Like when I read The Brothers Kamarazov it got to the point where I'd just pick up the book and start reading from a page that seemed pretty close to the page I left off before putting it down. I mean, it's that bad. But I keep reading these books b/c I keep thinking they'd really speak to me if I could just understand them. And my psychologist says they can teach you HOW to understand them in school, and I'd sure like to see how they go about doing that.
Anyway, 2 yrs ago I got accepted in the UT English department, but then I felt neurotic about it and let the whole thing slide. I think y'all just gave me the kick in the pants I've been needing.
Thanks!
Trouble
>
> I guess it also depends on where you want to be in 5, 10 years, etc. And, how motivated could you be if you studied something that you do not have any passion for? Ie, balancing the practical goal-oriented aspect of the decision with the tuning in to your passion side of the decision.
>
> Is there a career counselor available to you through the college? Sometimes that can be a good resource, too, in exploring how you could apply your learning to a career.
Posted by noa on February 13, 2002, at 16:57:09
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything?, posted by trouble on February 12, 2002, at 23:14:38
I don't know if you really would have preferred social work and are just put off by the statistics, but I am sure that there are plenty of people social work and other similar professions who are not that strong in math but get through it somehow. If you wanted to do it, I would look into hiring a very good tutor to get you through the stats. Chances are once the stats course is over you hardly use stats again, depending on your job, no?
But maybe the stats was a fortuitous obstacle to lead you to what you really want to do?
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 13, 2002, at 22:29:45
In reply to Is liberal arts degree worth anything?, posted by trouble on February 10, 2002, at 15:41:59
I've been quite successful with a liberal arts degree as have been many I know. I am only now going back for an advanced degree in business after finally figuring out a good balance between what I want to do and what I can do.
I am certifiably Learning Disabled in Math...Which ended my dreams of attending medical school because I can't visualize chemistry equations in my head (meanwhile half of our shrinks suck at their jobs and know calculus, but thats another story). I got an A in stats where I too thought I was going to be defeated once again. It uses a different part of the brain, and I've heard this form several pholks.
Take it at a community college and transfer it in if they will give you more one on one time...
Also if you return to an evening class program where most of the students are adults who work by day, they will likely take it easier on you.Is it just one stats class? Copy off of someone and get a C? I bet you could do it..
Ever the pesty optimist..
Scott
Posted by Shar on February 14, 2002, at 10:51:06
In reply to Re: Is liberal arts degree worth anything? » trouble, posted by Mr. Scott on February 13, 2002, at 22:29:45
I have had about 10 grad level stat classes. For the ones I knew would be most difficult for me, I took them in the summer because we would meet every day (or most every day) and that provided a lot of continuity.
In other words, I didn't forget what the last lecture was about from one class to the next.
In most of my classes we had study groups, and often worked on homework together. We would compare answers and if someone differed, we'd start at step one and go through to see what/where the mistake was. The deal was, everyone did their own homework, and used the comparison as a check.
None of my profs ever objected to the study groups or homework checking.
I did not have to memorize formulae for the statistics (well, maybe super simple, like standard deviation). But for those formulae that were 3 lines long, they were provided to us. When I taught stats, I never required students to memorize formulae.
Shar
Posted by noa on February 16, 2002, at 13:29:43
In reply to Stats Class, posted by Shar on February 14, 2002, at 10:51:06
I am sure that the level of proficiency required for educators, social workers, etc. (unless you are going into research or evaluation) is not much. I think if they provided the formulas for Shar's advanced classes, they wouldn't require you to actually do complicated formulas for a basic applied stats class. The computer does everything for you anyway. I think all you need to become proficient in is knowing which test is appropriate for which set of data you are crunching, or to be able to evaluate whether a research article you are reading is any good.
Also, remember that the likelihood is that a program in sw will have more than a few other people like you who are going into the field for many reasons, none of which is their superb math skills (even if some have them).
Besides, you could ask for help here--so many smart people here at Babble.
But all this might be besides the point, because it sounds like your real passion is to study literature, to which I say, Go For It!
BTW, I think if I had to take stats, I would want Shar as a teacher.
Posted by shelliR on February 16, 2002, at 18:13:00
In reply to Re: Stats Class, posted by noa on February 16, 2002, at 13:29:43
I think that basic statistics and basic research methodology should definitely be part of a liberal arts degree. It's really important (to me, anyway) to understand whether you can trust the results of any study and if you don't know the basics in those two subjects, I think you're going to be much more likely to believe what any researcher wants you to believe.
I don't use either subject in my profession, but I use both every time I read a study and analyze the conclusion.
Also I agree with Shar. I wouldn't exactly call it a fall-back, I'd double major. It's really not all that hard--just means less diverse electives. The best thing about finishing college is that it's behind you if you decide to go to graduate school. I'd hate to decide at age 40 that I wanted to be a clinical psychologist and have to do college first before starting grad school.
And Shar, I also took my graduate stat courses in summer school (great minds.....)
Shelli
Posted by Willow on February 16, 2002, at 19:06:41
In reply to Re: Stats Class, posted by shelliR on February 16, 2002, at 18:13:00
> And Shar, I also took my graduate stat courses in summer school (great minds.....)
I once took a summer class, the same year I became ill, so this may have biased me against summer school. It was great working on the same class, and only that one subject, but the amount of work required in the short length of time can be stressful. If stress is a trigger or no-no summer school in my opinion is not a good idea.
A friend went with me, which was great support for the both of us, but we did come up with a new motto: Friends don't let friends do summer school!
Whispering Willow
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