![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 9:11:32
Thought I posted this yesterday, but I don't see it .... In any event, I'm wondering if any of you have come up with a useful way of explaining (or not explaining) depression to coworkers. I'm sure we've all experienced how NOT useful it is to explain, "I'm sorry I've had to drop out of bla bla bla commitments, but I've been struggling with depression." Been struggling with "personal illness" isn't much better.
It's nobody's business, of course -- but it bothers me that other personal illness doesn't carry the stigma that mental illness still bears. Jeesh, just the term "mental illness" makes my stomach flip flop.
How do YOU guys address this issue?
XXX, E.
Posted by kazoo on September 2, 2001, at 11:36:49
In reply to How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression, posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 9:11:32
> I'm wondering if any of you have come up with a useful way of explaining (or not explaining) depression to coworkers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Greetings to Elizabeth:
Depression is anger and hatred turned inward (toward oneself).
If the individual persists, look at them squarely in the eye and say "Not you!"
IMHO, personal problems should not be so casually shared with those who are either curious or just plain nosey (despite other intentions they may express).
When I'm confronted with such questions, I tell them to look it up in their Funk & Wagnalls (an old "Laugh-In" retort).
kazoo
Posted by susan C on September 2, 2001, at 13:01:11
In reply to Re: How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression » Elzabeth, posted by kazoo on September 2, 2001, at 11:36:49
the thread is in the 'regular' psychobabble...I have been particularly enjoying it...
along with the how do they come up with these names...
Posted by Kristi on September 2, 2001, at 13:33:56
In reply to Re: How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression » Elzabeth, posted by kazoo on September 2, 2001, at 11:36:49
See..... men just seem to have a different way out of it. I think people think they have to be joking. And oh yes.... very creative..
> > I'm wondering if any of you have come up with a useful way of explaining (or not explaining) depression to coworkers.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Greetings to Elizabeth:
>
> Depression is anger and hatred turned inward (toward oneself).
>
> If the individual persists, look at them squarely in the eye and say "Not you!"
>
> IMHO, personal problems should not be so casually shared with those who are either curious or just plain nosey (despite other intentions they may express).
>
> When I'm confronted with such questions, I tell them to look it up in their Funk & Wagnalls (an old "Laugh-In" retort).
>
> kazoo
Posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 14:44:39
In reply to Re: How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression, posted by Kristi on September 2, 2001, at 13:33:56
Hi Guys, and thanks ... but --
I'm in pretty serious straits here ... with thoughts of hanging myself, and I'm not kidding. Things are pretty desperate. I've gotta bow out of some commitments I've made, and stating "I'm having some personal health issues" just isn't going to cut it. I guess I should call my M.D. I think I can hang in there (no pun intended), and I'm not -- seriously in peril -- although I wish those nasty images would go away. I've just gotta move into some extreme self care here -- cutting back to only those things that are most essential and citing "mental health crisis" as an excuse doesn't feel very good, nor do I wish to go public with the fact that I've got depression. It's none of their frigging business. :-( Any other suggestions? Sorry Kazoo. The chuckles were certainly appreciated, but I'm certainly open to any other ideas. What else you got up you sleeve? XXX, E.
Posted by susan C on September 2, 2001, at 15:28:50
In reply to These are very clever suggestions ... But, posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 14:44:39
> Hi Guys, and thanks ... but --
>
> I'm in pretty serious straits here ... with thoughts of hanging myself, and I'm not kidding. Things are pretty desperate. I've gotta bow out of some commitments I've made, and stating "I'm having some personal health issues" just isn't going to cut it. I guess I should call my M.D. I think I can hang in there (no pun intended), and I'm not -- seriously in peril -- although I wish those nasty images would go away. I've just gotta move into some extreme self care here -- cutting back to only those things that are most essential and citing "mental health crisis" as an excuse doesn't feel very good, nor do I wish to go public with the fact that I've got depression. It's none of their frigging business. :-( Any other suggestions? Sorry Kazoo. The chuckles were certainly appreciated, but I'm certainly open to any other ideas. What else you got up you sleeve? XXX, E.I am Not trying to make light of your situation. When I read your note, I said to myself, What would you say if you had a terrible illness, a fever, a cold...You would say, maybe, I feel terrible right now, and just cant make it. Then I would call my doctor and take myself to the hospital.
I wish I could help you, loan you my spouse so he can answer the phone for you and tell everyone you are indisposed and will get back to them later.
Susan C.
Posted by mila on September 2, 2001, at 15:37:33
In reply to These are very clever suggestions ... But, posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 14:44:39
hi Elizabeth,
you seem to have a dilemma: commitment to others or commitment to yourself. When you try to fulfill those simultaneously, it is too much. put them in sequence. simply inform people at work that within a week (or two, or whatever) you are reducing the number of work commitments due to other personal commitments you have to fulfill this year. give coworkers some specific time frame. People at work do not wish as much details as certainty about your availability. no one cares big deal about what we've got, but people do need to feel your respect and be treated with dignity. they simply expect some certainty so that they can redistribute resourses and keep achieving goals at work.
once you get relief from work commitments, give yourself some time to think about how you can take a good care of yourself, how to use free time to your benefit. Depression is either curable or manageable, but while you are undergoing treatments, you really need to keep your work activities reduced to those you truly enjoy and look forward to.
much love
mila
Posted by Kristi on September 2, 2001, at 17:12:38
In reply to How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression, posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 9:11:32
Hi...
I'm a little confused about what your post is asking. Have you made commitments to co-workers that you don't think you'll be able to perform because of your depression? If it's in general.. I wouldn't worry about it. I can tell who is/isn't depressed(within the group I work with) and I don't judge or think about their lives, or whatever. We are all pretty egocentric in that way.. our lives are more important. Um.... oops.. then their is gossip.
I guess what I'm wondering... do you feel an urgent need to let your coworkers in on this?
I just wouldn't say anything. Or say I'm not feeling well. And keep saying it until they eventually get to the point that they don't ask anymore.
I probably shouldn't say anymore right now... I'm unsure of your original question. Do you feel an obligation to tell them?
> Thought I posted this yesterday, but I don't see it .... In any event, I'm wondering if any of you have come up with a useful way of explaining (or not explaining) depression to coworkers. I'm sure we've all experienced how NOT useful it is to explain, "I'm sorry I've had to drop out of bla bla bla commitments, but I've been struggling with depression." Been struggling with "personal illness" isn't much better.
>
> It's nobody's business, of course -- but it bothers me that other personal illness doesn't carry the stigma that mental illness still bears. Jeesh, just the term "mental illness" makes my stomach flip flop.
>
> How do YOU guys address this issue?
>
> XXX, E.
Posted by akc on September 2, 2001, at 18:02:28
In reply to How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression, posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 9:11:32
I'm in the "you don't have to explain anything" category. They are just your coworkers. You need say nothing more than you just are unable right now to do what ever the commitment is. If you feel that you are unable to do so for "x" amount of weeks, tell them that. But you do not owe them a reason why. If they are nosy and ask, you do not have to tell them. A polite, "I am just unable right now" is all that is warranted. They should get the message. At the same time, turn around and politely walk away. These are coworkers. You do not owe them any explanation, any detail. Period.
akc
> Thought I posted this yesterday, but I don't see it .... In any event, I'm wondering if any of you have come up with a useful way of explaining (or not explaining) depression to coworkers. I'm sure we've all experienced how NOT useful it is to explain, "I'm sorry I've had to drop out of bla bla bla commitments, but I've been struggling with depression." Been struggling with "personal illness" isn't much better.
>
> It's nobody's business, of course -- but it bothers me that other personal illness doesn't carry the stigma that mental illness still bears. Jeesh, just the term "mental illness" makes my stomach flip flop.
>
> How do YOU guys address this issue?
>
> XXX, E.
Posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 21:20:05
In reply to Re: How to Explain (or NOT Explain) Depression » Elzabeth, posted by akc on September 2, 2001, at 18:02:28
Thanks everybody. Sure do appreciate your suggestions .... Someone asked awhile back for a few more details (and I apologize, I didn't explain things very well). I teach by day -- I think I can muddle my way through this. But by night, at least from mid-September until mid-December, I've been asked to run a dance program. It's only one night a week, and there are therapeutic benefits to be sure -- but I just don't have it in me. It's a bit late to bow out now, and I'd be doing the dance studio a big disservice. These are the folks I was hemming and hawwing over. (Spelling?) I also volunteer in the nursery at the Y one night a week in exchange for a free membership, and -- I'm not even getting over to the Y to work out -- let alone finding strength and energy enough to look after the little ones .... That's another area I think I should get out of. It's just the dance thing, that I've been stewing over. That's the one that's been the major problem area. I've let it go too long, and already they've been asking can I "do this," and can I "do that," and I'm -- I'm wanting to resign. I just can't take on anything more. I'm wondering -- I'm thinking -- I can probably make it through December -- I'm just feeling -- it's too late -- too late -- at this point to tell them I made a mistake. They'll never be able to find another instructor by September 13th .... Thanks though. And -- obviously -- I've gotta talk with my doc. It helps to talk with you guys, by the way. Thanks. XXX, E.
Posted by Mickey on September 3, 2001, at 9:01:06
In reply to Thanks Everybody ..., posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 21:20:05
It would probably not be unlikely that 20% of your co-workers are too depressed.
Posted by Wendy B. on September 3, 2001, at 9:30:34
In reply to Thanks Everybody ..., posted by Elzabeth on September 2, 2001, at 21:20:05
> Thanks everybody. Sure do appreciate your suggestions .... Someone asked awhile back for a few more details (and I apologize, I didn't explain things very well). I teach by day -- I think I can muddle my way through this. But by night, at least from mid-September until mid-December, I've been asked to run a dance program. It's only one night a week, and there are therapeutic benefits to be sure -- but I just don't have it in me. It's a bit late to bow out now, and I'd be doing the dance studio a big disservice. These are the folks I was hemming and hawwing over. (Spelling?) I also volunteer in the nursery at the Y one night a week in exchange for a free membership, and -- I'm not even getting over to the Y to work out -- let alone finding strength and energy enough to look after the little ones .... That's another area I think I should get out of. It's just the dance thing, that I've been stewing over. That's the one that's been the major problem area. I've let it go too long, and already they've been asking can I "do this," and can I "do that," and I'm -- I'm wanting to resign. I just can't take on anything more. I'm wondering -- I'm thinking -- I can probably make it through December -- I'm just feeling -- it's too late -- too late -- at this point to tell them I made a mistake. They'll never be able to find another instructor by September 13th .... Thanks though. And -- obviously -- I've gotta talk with my doc. It helps to talk with you guys, by the way. Thanks. XXX, E.
Elzabeth,
OK, I think some of us understand better now...
1) No need to go into detail, just say you've been ill, and leave it at that.
2) Go to see your dr. or p-doc right away, or at least check in by phone. Those nasty images of hanging yourself need to be talked through with someone. If you need to, please post more here so we can talk to you & try to help.
3) Do not take on any more activities. I understand this one very well. Taking on more than I could reasonably do, and then feeling HORRIBLE and guilty about it when I couldn't come through for people (which was a lot of the time) was getting to be standard practice for me. I FORCED myself to stop. I was volunteering for two different organizations, one having to do with my daughter's school, one with my professional organization, and I had to punt both of them. When I did, I finally felt free to focus on some of my own issues, without having that nagging feeling that I was letting other people down, like there was always some phone call I hadn't made, or some amount of money I hadn't raised. I tried to justify like hell the supposed benefits to myself that the volunteer work was giving me (fundraising, experience on an exec. board), but in truth, it was just a drain. I had already spent a lifetime trying to please everyone else, so I had to decide to please just me.
4) So tell the dance studio that YOU HAVE GOTTEN ILL. (see #1 above). What can they say to you? 'Oh, you have not?' You do not have to do this class. You are sick. And, as with any other sickness, you need time to recover and get well. So you will have to just bow out gracefully. They will HAVE TO find another teacher. You are not irreplaceable. I know it will be very very hard to say this to these people, but you have to find something in you that you can reach down into, and just find that courage to do it. If you are upset with yourself because you feel you are letting other people down, just think: I am letting myself down (& my family, friends, lover, etc) if I do not take the time I need to get well. My needs come first right now.
5) With the volunteering at the Y, you will just have to do the same thing. You are not using the gym now anyway, so you are not losing anything. The Y will find someone else to do it, they do it all the time. Give yourself a break!
6) People who work with kids have to remember that they can burn out very easily. If you are a teacher, it is very draining physically and emotionally, whatever grade level you teach. You have so much curriculum planning to do, you have the kids on your mind all the time, you get involved in their little lives... you do, they are real people with real issues and problems and concerns and parents, etc.
7) So I would just say (since teachers have pretty good benefits plans, generally) that you might think about talking to someone in your teachers' union who deals with benefits, after you see your doctor. Find out how much sick time you have accrued. Discuss what short-term disability benefits you have. The school system has ways to find substitutes for you, they do this all the time, should you take either of these options. You may just need some time off so you can get your focus back...
I wish you well, and hope you will let us know how it is going. I feel for you. Try to slap yourself (!) :-) next time somebody asks you to do just one extra thing and remember: you are not allowing other people to be more important than you are to yourself.
All the best, & don't forget to call the doctor,
Wendy
Posted by susan C on September 3, 2001, at 9:48:55
In reply to Re: Thanks Everybody ... » Elzabeth, posted by Wendy B. on September 3, 2001, at 9:30:34
Posted by Elzabeth on September 3, 2001, at 17:41:11
In reply to Elzbeth - Wendy's right!!!, posted by Mair on September 3, 2001, at 12:59:39
> > > Elzbeth - Please try to pay attention to what Wendy's saying. You probably got where you are in part because you try to please too many people. Obviously the time has come where you have to focus an yourself and in your depressed state I'm sure it seems easier to try to plug along rather than cut back, disappoint people and worst of all, come up with an adequate explanation as to why you're paring back. Like Wendy I've been there and done that. I've discovered that if you have job responsibilities, it's not that hard to get other people to accept "no" as an answer to a request that you do stuff outside of work. People always seem to accept that work may have been alot crazier. I've felt guilty about using this as an excuse since I know that the truth is that I'm too depressed to function very well, but no one else has to know this. I've also gotten better about explaining to people that I would love to do "whatever" and that I wish I could help them but that I'm soooo busy that I would be doing an extreme disservice to them to try to take on anything else. If you press this enough, I get an "I appreciate your candor" kind of response.
>
> My therapist used to run through this scenario with me about what would happen if i was told I gotten seriously ill (physically), and say needed an operation. I would be forced to stop working and somehow my work would get done by others. You say the studio won't be able to find another teacher - I don't buy that and I don't buy that this would be disastrous for the studio. If letting these people down is the worst thing that happens to you in your life, you'll be the envy of everyone.
>
> I've worked with what sometimes seems like umpteen therapists and docs over the last several years (really not that many) and everyone of them has tried to convince me that I needed to do something concrete to reduce my work stress - like radically revamp my schedule. I didn't forever for every rationalization in the book - I was too busy - there was no one else to pick up on my workload - my family couldn't afford it etc. Alot of it (unspoken) was that i didn't want to have to explain myself either. This summer I finally managed to put together a couple of months of working way less. It was easier than I thought - everyone seemed to be able to accept the explanation that i was on overload and needed to slow down - and it has been helpful. I couldn't do this until I viewed it as a medical necessity. A particularly tough time last winter forced me to consider that i might end up in a hospital for the first time. Taking a little time off sure seemed like a better alternative. You just need to give yourself the permission to be needy and to take care of yourself at the perceived inconvenience of all others.
>
> I also echo Wendy's suggestion that you talk to your doc sooner than later.
>
> Mair
Posted by Elzabeth on September 3, 2001, at 19:24:12
In reply to Re: Thanks Everybody ... » Elzabeth, posted by Wendy B. on September 3, 2001, at 9:30:34
> > Thanks everybody. Sure do appreciate your suggestions .... Someone asked awhile back for a few more details (and I apologize, I didn't explain things very well). I teach by day -- I think I can muddle my way through this. But by night, at least from mid-September until mid-December, I've been asked to run a dance program. It's only one night a week, and there are therapeutic benefits to be sure -- but I just don't have it in me. It's a bit late to bow out now, and I'd be doing the dance studio a big disservice. These are the folks I was hemming and hawwing over. (Spelling?) I also volunteer in the nursery at the Y one night a week in exchange for a free membership, and -- I'm not even getting over to the Y to work out -- let alone finding strength and energy enough to look after the little ones .... That's another area I think I should get out of. It's just the dance thing, that I've been stewing over. That's the one that's been the major problem area. I've let it go too long, and already they've been asking can I "do this," and can I "do that," and I'm -- I'm wanting to resign. I just can't take on anything more. I'm wondering -- I'm thinking -- I can probably make it through December -- I'm just feeling -- it's too late -- too late -- at this point to tell them I made a mistake. They'll never be able to find another instructor by September 13th .... Thanks though. And -- obviously -- I've gotta talk with my doc. It helps to talk with you guys, by the way. Thanks. XXX, E.
>
>
>
> Elzabeth,
>
> OK, I think some of us understand better now...
>
> 1) No need to go into detail, just say you've been ill, and leave it at that.
>
> 2) Go to see your dr. or p-doc right away, or at least check in by phone. Those nasty images of hanging yourself need to be talked through with someone. If you need to, please post more here so we can talk to you & try to help.
>
> 3) Do not take on any more activities. I understand this one very well. Taking on more than I could reasonably do, and then feeling HORRIBLE and guilty about it when I couldn't come through for people (which was a lot of the time) was getting to be standard practice for me. I FORCED myself to stop. I was volunteering for two different organizations, one having to do with my daughter's school, one with my professional organization, and I had to punt both of them. When I did, I finally felt free to focus on some of my own issues, without having that nagging feeling that I was letting other people down, like there was always some phone call I hadn't made, or some amount of money I hadn't raised. I tried to justify like hell the supposed benefits to myself that the volunteer work was giving me (fundraising, experience on an exec. board), but in truth, it was just a drain. I had already spent a lifetime trying to please everyone else, so I had to decide to please just me.
>
> 4) So tell the dance studio that YOU HAVE GOTTEN ILL. (see #1 above). What can they say to you? 'Oh, you have not?' You do not have to do this class. You are sick. And, as with any other sickness, you need time to recover and get well. So you will have to just bow out gracefully. They will HAVE TO find another teacher. You are not irreplaceable. I know it will be very very hard to say this to these people, but you have to find something in you that you can reach down into, and just find that courage to do it. If you are upset with yourself because you feel you are letting other people down, just think: I am letting myself down (& my family, friends, lover, etc) if I do not take the time I need to get well. My needs come first right now.
>
> 5) With the volunteering at the Y, you will just have to do the same thing. You are not using the gym now anyway, so you are not losing anything. The Y will find someone else to do it, they do it all the time. Give yourself a break!
>
> 6) People who work with kids have to remember that they can burn out very easily. If you are a teacher, it is very draining physically and emotionally, whatever grade level you teach. You have so much curriculum planning to do, you have the kids on your mind all the time, you get involved in their little lives... you do, they are real people with real issues and problems and concerns and parents, etc.
>
> 7) So I would just say (since teachers have pretty good benefits plans, generally) that you might think about talking to someone in your teachers' union who deals with benefits, after you see your doctor. Find out how much sick time you have accrued. Discuss what short-term disability benefits you have. The school system has ways to find substitutes for you, they do this all the time, should you take either of these options. You may just need some time off so you can get your focus back...
>
> I wish you well, and hope you will let us know how it is going. I feel for you. Try to slap yourself (!) :-) next time somebody asks you to do just one extra thing and remember: you are not allowing other people to be more important than you are to yourself.
>
> All the best, & don't forget to call the doctor,
>
> Wendy* * * *
Wendy, Susan, Mair -- thanks for the great care (and tremendous support) in posting such encouraging words. I wrote an earlier reply here, but as I'm not seeing it posted here, guess I'm STILL learning the ropes in how to write and respond in Babble Land. Anyhow -- thank you thank you thank you. This is just what I needed.
I wanted to let you know that since hearing from you I've already contacted the dance studio -- and after all your encouragment above -- it wasn't that hard to do. Thank you friends! I've already received a reply, and everything's okay.
Everything's okay.
Next on my list? The Y. After that? My doc.
I'm tempted to ask for a drug holiday. After reading about some of the horrors other folks have experienced on the medication I'm trying ... I'd just like to know what I'm like ... back at my baseline self. You know?
Makes me think of the Jefferson Starship song. Or was it the Airplane? "One pill makes you big, and one pill makes you small ..."
Only in my case, one pill makes me rage, and one pill makes me cry, and one makes me suicidal and ... goodness, will we ever get it right?
Thanks for being there for me. Thanks for everything.
Much love. XXX, E.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.