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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 11:46:26
I've noticed in my family and friends that those of us who have horrific nightmares are the ones who deal with mental illness. Those who don't dream, or dream of everyday things, don't seem to have mood or behavior disorders.
Do you think there could be a connection?
Posted by Cass on July 17, 2001, at 12:42:00
In reply to Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 11:46:26
I know some extremely mentally sound people who have nightmares from time to time. I feel like most of my nightmares stem from emotional trauma from childhood, feelings of abandonment and unwantedness. I once read that if you want to scream during a nightmare but cannot, it indicates that you feel no one will listen or care. I think that might be true. I used to not be able to scream, but in the last 5 years or so, I have been able to scream out loud during nightmares. I think this is because I am able to trust others more, and I am more accepting of my feelings.
Posted by mila on July 17, 2001, at 13:15:46
In reply to Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 11:46:26
I do not know, Kingfish,
I only had a couple of nightmares in my whole life when I was little and certainly had no mood disorder then. Even during my worst depressive episode and terrible bouts of anxiety I have never had nightmares or even bad dreams. It was as if my dream life was different from my waking life, dreaming always busy with things and people I love and not with my problems.
mila
Posted by susan C on July 17, 2001, at 14:36:18
In reply to Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 11:46:26
This is an interesting question. I rarely have what I would call nightmares. When I am depressed, I just sleep, dead sleep, when I swing the other way, I am up, or wake up...I know my dreams have changed with different medications. When I started Serzone, I couldn't wait to go to sleep at night because the dreams were so entertaining. One thing my husband of 30 years and I agree on, is we influence each others dreams. We often dream of the same, similar or different parts of the same dream. Heat also seems to affect our dreams and make them weird. Eating too much before bed also. Those we call 'pizza dreams'
> I've noticed in my family and friends that those of us who have horrific nightmares are the ones who deal with mental illness. Those who don't dream, or dream of everyday things, don't seem to have mood or behavior disorders.
>
> Do you think there could be a connection?
Posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 17:49:40
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by susan C on July 17, 2001, at 14:36:18
It would seem, then, that my theory is kapoot. ;)
I wish that my dream world was a harbor from the real world.
Susan C, I, too, have noticed a difference with different medications. When the Topamax kicked in, it was the first time in my life that I did not have horrific nightmares almost every night.
I now have complete stories at times, and much more control over what happens, which is wonderful.
I once told my husband about a nightmare I had, and he asked me not to share any future ones because it was so awful.
Posted by geekUK on July 17, 2001, at 19:16:55
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 17:49:40
I never remember dreams, I know I have them but never remember. FXR I could remember and they were all bad. Particular one being like a short video snapshot of walking into white+chrome bathroom, broken mirror everywhere and blood covering the walls, then nothing-woke up. I dont know what the hell that came from.
Freud of course has his dream theories, but dreams are some thing that I find a mistery.
Posted by Wendy B. on July 18, 2001, at 16:30:50
In reply to FXR, posted by geekUK on July 17, 2001, at 19:16:55
> Freud of course has his dream theories, but dreams are some thing that I find a mistery.
I agree. But mentioning Freud, I have to
suggest that if you're interested in dreams
and how they work, Freud's book "The
Interpretation of Dreams" still stands,
in my mind, as one of the most interesting and
inventive. Check it out...On the original topic: I don't think people
who have frequent nightmares are more mentally
unstable than anybody else, but they might
need more help in trying to figure those
things out...Wendy
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on July 19, 2001, at 0:17:27
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 17:49:40
> It would seem, then, that my theory is kapoot. ;)
>
> I wish that my dream world was a harbor from the real world.
>
> Susan C, I, too, have noticed a difference with different medications. When the Topamax kicked in, it was the first time in my life that I did not have horrific nightmares almost every night.
>
> I now have complete stories at times, and much more control over what happens, which is wonderful.
>
> I once told my husband about a nightmare I had, and he asked me not to share any future ones because it was so awful.Hi Kingfish,
My dreams have usually been unpleasant;
there is not a doubt in my mind that my
meds cause my unpleasant dreams and
nightmares.
Glenn
Posted by Wendy B. on July 19, 2001, at 9:32:03
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Glenn Fagelson on July 19, 2001, at 0:17:27
> Hi Kingfish,
>
> My dreams have usually been unpleasant;
> there is not a doubt in my mind that my
> meds cause my unpleasant dreams and
> nightmares.
> GlennGlenn, I was going to add that, too, meds definitely affect dreaming and REM sleep. My meds earlier in the year (effexor) were causing me to have lots of weird scenes in dreams, and some nightmares where I woke up, startled. Off that, and now on neurontin, among other things, I couldn't have dreams at all at the 1200 mg dose at bedtime. Since then, I've cut that in half, and dreams are coming back.
Also, don't you all think that people who are in the therapy/meds scene are already examining their lives & dreams anyway, so it's kinda natural. Anyway, I don't think of myself as 'mentally ill,' or crazy or bonkers or mad or whatever. I consider myself more sane than the rest of my family, or most other people, for example, because at least I'm trying to address the issues of my depression and bipolar stuff, not cover then up with alcohol or denial or workaholism or all the other things people use to keep their heads buried in the sand.
More anon,
Wendy
Posted by geekUK on July 20, 2001, at 19:11:15
In reply to Re: FXR and Freud » geekUK, posted by Wendy B. on July 18, 2001, at 16:30:50
> suggest that if you're interested in dreams
> and how they work, Freud's book "The
> Interpretation of Dreams" still stands,
yep, read it, quite good.> On the original topic: I don't think people
> who have frequent nightmares are more mentally
> unstable than anybody else, but they might
> need more help in trying to figure those
> things out...
I dont know on this point, the effexor period scared me into thinking that my waking horror was mirrored in my dream time, exept with more 'psychadelia'
Posted by Andy123 on July 22, 2001, at 23:48:47
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Kingfish on July 17, 2001, at 17:49:40
> It would seem, then, that my theory is kapoot. ;)
Good thread! Except when I'm on a serotonergic antidepressant, I have terrible, often vivid and always extremely bizarre dreams. Maybe this is part of their therapeutic effect, as these dreams deleteriously affect my outlook while awake.
Posted by Wendy B. on July 23, 2001, at 1:34:19
In reply to Re: FXR and Freud » Wendy B., posted by geekUK on July 20, 2001, at 19:11:15
Dear Geek,
> > suggest that if you're interested in dreams
> > and how they work, Freud's book "The
> > Interpretation of Dreams" still stands,
> yep, read it, quite good.
Good, now how about "Totem & Taboo"?
> > On the original topic: I don't think people
> > who have frequent nightmares are more mentally
> > unstable than anybody else, but they might
> > need more help in trying to figure those
> > things out...
> I dont know on this point, the effexor period scared me into thinking that my waking horror was mirrored in my dream time, exept with more 'psychadelia'Which had more psychedelia? your waking life or the dreams? (I can't tell from your post.) It's interesting that Andy, on the other hand, thinks that the process goes the other way around, that his nightmares disturb him during the day (anxiety about 'what does that MEAN?') And what you're saying is that you were concerned that your waking life - waking horror (anxiety/depression/ bipolar as I remember, with a bit of alcohol thrown in just to make it interesting) - was reflected in your dreams. And that THAT was the thing that was frightening.
Or is it one and the same? I think I personally do some of both.
I haven't been dreaming much again lately, because I've been at a music festival for 4 days running, and have forgotten to take enough neurontin during the day, and am doubling up again at night. So will keep an eye on it now that things have calmed down, see if I have any insights at all on this topic...
That's one thing, too, about the meds, I feel that they 'tamp down' a lot of my creativity... And dreaming is, actually, a creative act... After all, we make dreams with our own minds, with our own inner cinematographer, etc. So when the meds "stifle" them as they do for me, what they're doing too is taking away part of my creativity...Cheers, anyway,
Wendy
Posted by geekUK on July 23, 2001, at 4:08:28
In reply to Re: FXR and Freud, posted by Wendy B. on July 23, 2001, at 1:34:19
> > > suggest that if you're interested in dreams
> > > and how they work, Freud's book "The
> > > Interpretation of Dreams" still stands,
> > yep, read it, quite good.
>
>
> Good, now how about "Totem & Taboo"?
>
> nope, is that his penis envy book? or am I wrong. The sexual enlightenment of children is really good. By the end of the book I beleived it, but then later reexamined the idea and thought ??WHAT///???
>
Posted by Anna Laura on July 23, 2001, at 5:15:50
In reply to Re: FXR and Freud, posted by geekUK on July 23, 2001, at 4:08:28
>
>
> > > > suggest that if you're interested in dreams
> > > > and how they work, Freud's book "The
> > > > Interpretation of Dreams" still stands,
> > > yep, read it, quite good.
> >
> >
> > Good, now how about "Totem & Taboo"?
> >
> > nope, is that his penis envy book? or am I wrong. The sexual enlightenment of children is really good. By the end of the book I beleived it, but then later reexamined the idea and thought ??WHAT///???
> >
I used to be a Freud's fan when i was a teen-ager, later on, when i experienced psychoanalisis myself and i read his books "between-the-lines", i came to realize he was just a fine rethor, a talmudist, and after all just a good amunuensis of the spirit of his time (zeitgeist).
He was just very good at concealing the fragile points of his theories, and very able in re-writing these theories over and over again.
I think he could have been a very good attorney. And, why not, a fine novelist. (he won a literary award after all, and the austrian novelist Arthur Schneitzler called him his "literary double").
I suggest these books : Why Freud was wrong By Richard Webster and Final Analisis by Jeffrey Masson, and why not, Erica Jong's Fear of Flying (she was married to apsychoanalist after all!).
Posted by Kingfish on July 23, 2001, at 7:44:07
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Andy123 on July 22, 2001, at 23:48:47
My nightmares absolutely affected my days. I couldn't "shake them off" and it was very difficult to explain this to anyone who didn't experience it. I also used to wonder just where those horrible images came from - they were too bizarre to be attributed to any news story - which, by the way, I do not watch anymore for the explicit reason of avoiding bad images, just in case.
Posted by Dubya on July 25, 2001, at 23:30:45
In reply to Re: Do nightmares and mental illness have a connection, posted by Andy123 on July 22, 2001, at 23:48:47
I've only been on one anti depressant in my whole life. I started taking it in Feb 2001; however, ever since that very 1st week of taking it, I've had bizzare, scary, ones which seem so real, ones where I feel as if I'm actually awake, all of the things that scare me, all of the things I wish I had (not material things) but is rubbed in my face in my dreams. I'm only Clomipramine 40mg now and my family doc understands that the dreams may be affected by meds but my psychiatrist doesn't at all, he just says that "the purpose of dreams do is demystify so it's just the stuff you're scared of rather than the meds"... hmm now I'm even more scared
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