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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Willow on May 30, 2001, at 8:04:20
"Well, maybe the second time... Anyway, after giving this some more thought, I'd like to try to use "time-outs" more, as an "alternative sentence"."
I was just thinking that the Boss (Bob) must be a first born. First borns usually need a little more control or like to control their environment more than later siblings.
I'm the youngest. My brother use to always say the song by Cindy Lauper (sp) "Girls just want to have fun" described me. Suprisingly I married a first born, it's fun to try and get him to lighten up and he keeps me a little responsible.
Does anyone agree with this theory?
Willow
Posted by tina on May 30, 2001, at 10:12:04
In reply to time-out Birth order?, posted by Willow on May 30, 2001, at 8:04:20
Well
I'm the baby and I'm a total control freak and my brother who is first born, is very laid back and doesn't care if he is in control of anything. Kinda shoots that theory to hell doesn't it?
> "Well, maybe the second time... Anyway, after giving this some more thought, I'd like to try to use "time-outs" more, as an "alternative sentence"."
>
> I was just thinking that the Boss (Bob) must be a first born. First borns usually need a little more control or like to control their environment more than later siblings.
>
> I'm the youngest. My brother use to always say the song by Cindy Lauper (sp) "Girls just want to have fun" described me. Suprisingly I married a first born, it's fun to try and get him to lighten up and he keeps me a little responsible.
>
> Does anyone agree with this theory?
>
> Willow
Posted by Noa on May 30, 2001, at 16:28:12
In reply to Re: time-out Birth order?, posted by tina on May 30, 2001, at 10:12:04
Who knows? The question of birth order is very intriguing, but who knows if it applies?
In some ways, I fit the middle child portrait fairly well--I'm other-oriented, felt a little overlooked --lived in the shadow of a superstar first born sister, and somewhat in the shadow of a second born brother, but who was clearly in the role of first born son, and then felt usurped by the youngest, a brother, who dutifully played the role of late-born "handful" (charming but mischevious and somewhat hyperactive) to my mother's midlife issues. In my family, the first born is (as is apparently typical for first borns or only kids) very bright and independent minded, a true non-conformist who blazed her own trail early on. The second is definitely a middle child like myself, suppressing his emotional needs and being very other-oriented, despite being treated somewhat like a first born because he was a male in a somewhat traditional family (to the dismay of my younger brother, my elder brother still gets more respect). As I said, I was and am the middle--peacemaker, uniter, careful reader of the emotional climate in the home, social, though much more shy and anxious than my brother, the other middle child. And, the youngest has some characteristics consistent with being the younges, but some that aren't. As a child, he definitely had to suffer the indignities of being the youngest---being seen as "cute" but not being taken very seriously at all. He was definitely the fun loving, somewhat hyperactive kid in the family, the only one that prompted my parents to institute explicit rules and curfews. But as he grew up he turned out to be a lover of control and order. His wife calls him "agenda man" because he always wants to have a plan. He can be impulsive but he is also the best of all of us in a crisis because he is a person of action and a pretty good problem solver. He was and is the most socially outgoing, and he is very community oriented. As a kid the neighbors called him "the mayor of xxxx Street" because starting at a young age he would go house to house to "shmooze" with them (any age neighbor, didn't matter) and they would give him cookies! As an adult, he seems to know just about everyone and still "shmoozes". However, I wouldn't describe him as carefree or anything now.
Posted by Shar on May 30, 2001, at 17:59:23
In reply to Re: time-out Birth order?, posted by Noa on May 30, 2001, at 16:28:12
Noa,
I believe there is a fair amount of empirical evidence to support the descriptions you attribute to different birth orders. (Tina--studies will show what occurs on the average, there will always be people who do not fit a pattern.)I worked on an extensive study involving pairs of kids interacting (ie, first born with last born, first with middle, etc. plus an "only child" group). We usually considered later borns (such as kids born long after the first batch, with a big age difference) to be onlies because they didn't really grow up with the same dynamics that the first litter did. I was wondering if your younger brother had a large age difference from you?
I am a last-born, but a rather driven one.
All in all, I prefer astrology's behavioral predictions! 8-) Double Capricorn with Leo Rising? No problem, I can describe 'em to a T.... (kidding....)
Shar
> Who knows? The question of birth order is very intriguing, but who knows if it applies?
>
> In some ways, I fit the middle child portrait fairly well--I'm other-oriented, felt a little overlooked --lived in the shadow of a superstar first born sister, and somewhat in the shadow of a second born brother, but who was clearly in the role of first born son, and then felt usurped by the youngest, a brother, who dutifully played the role of late-born "handful" (charming but mischevious and somewhat hyperactive) to my mother's midlife issues. In my family, the first born is (as is apparently typical for first borns or only kids) very bright and independent minded, a true non-conformist who blazed her own trail early on. The second is definitely a middle child like myself, suppressing his emotional needs and being very other-oriented, despite being treated somewhat like a first born because he was a male in a somewhat traditional family (to the dismay of my younger brother, my elder brother still gets more respect). As I said, I was and am the middle--peacemaker, uniter, careful reader of the emotional climate in the home, social, though much more shy and anxious than my brother, the other middle child. And, the youngest has some characteristics consistent with being the younges, but some that aren't. As a child, he definitely had to suffer the indignities of being the youngest---being seen as "cute" but not being taken very seriously at all. He was definitely the fun loving, somewhat hyperactive kid in the family, the only one that prompted my parents to institute explicit rules and curfews. But as he grew up he turned out to be a lover of control and order. His wife calls him "agenda man" because he always wants to have a plan. He can be impulsive but he is also the best of all of us in a crisis because he is a person of action and a pretty good problem solver. He was and is the most socially outgoing, and he is very community oriented. As a kid the neighbors called him "the mayor of xxxx Street" because starting at a young age he would go house to house to "shmooze" with them (any age neighbor, didn't matter) and they would give him cookies! As an adult, he seems to know just about everyone and still "shmoozes". However, I wouldn't describe him as carefree or anything now.
Posted by Greg on May 30, 2001, at 21:10:19
In reply to time-out Birth order?, posted by Willow on May 30, 2001, at 8:04:20
Willow,
I've got to join the "baby of the bunch" group. My oldest sibling and I have always been somewhat unmotivated and irresponsible (both alcoholics, I'm 13 years sober, she still drinks). I have improved in my responsibility with age (and sobriety I'm sure), but still have some growing up to do. I can be very controlling and manipulative when it suits my purpose, but I'm generally pretty easy to get along with.
The middle child in the family (also female) is the organizational monster. Her house is always immaculate, yards perfectly groomed, laundry is always done, dinner on the table at the same time every night. She has a list for everything she'll do during the day and the lists are usually done days in advance. No one is ever hired to do repairs on her home, if she can't do it herself; she gets someone to teach her. All the family functions are held at her home. She's handled every funeral arrangement we've ever had. She reminds me of the Energizer Bunny... And she's never had a drinking or drug problem. I don't know that she tries to control others, but she certainly keeps her own world in check.
I think you're first born theory is probably very valid, but there are always exceptions. My middle sister and I are definitely polar opposites.
BTW, how is your Dad doing? Is the Zypreza still working out for him? I hope both of you are doing well.
Greg
> "Well, maybe the second time... Anyway, after giving this some more thought, I'd like to try to use "time-outs" more, as an "alternative sentence"."
>
> I was just thinking that the Boss (Bob) must be a first born. First borns usually need a little more control or like to control their environment more than later siblings.
>
> I'm the youngest. My brother use to always say the song by Cindy Lauper (sp) "Girls just want to have fun" described me. Suprisingly I married a first born, it's fun to try and get him to lighten up and he keeps me a little responsible.
>
> Does anyone agree with this theory?
>
> Willow
Posted by Rach on May 31, 2001, at 6:24:10
In reply to Re: time-out Birth order?, posted by Greg on May 30, 2001, at 21:10:19
Wow, I wish! I'm a middle child. Older brother, baby sister. As I said, I wish I had the traits of your sister, Greg.
As far as I know, "middle child syndrome" includes low self-esteem because of a lack of unique status (i.e. firstborn and lastborn children get status, recognition, and attention that middleborns may not receive), and the belief that life isn't fair because the oldest sibling may have "all the rights" and the youngest "all the privileges.
I can understand that! And I am definately the peace maker in the family. But, I was also the one to be picked on all the time because my bro & sis would join forces and gang up on me!
> Willow,
>
> I've got to join the "baby of the bunch" group. My oldest sibling and I have always been somewhat unmotivated and irresponsible (both alcoholics, I'm 13 years sober, she still drinks). I have improved in my responsibility with age (and sobriety I'm sure), but still have some growing up to do. I can be very controlling and manipulative when it suits my purpose, but I'm generally pretty easy to get along with.
>
> The middle child in the family (also female) is the organizational monster. Her house is always immaculate, yards perfectly groomed, laundry is always done, dinner on the table at the same time every night. She has a list for everything she'll do during the day and the lists are usually done days in advance. No one is ever hired to do repairs on her home, if she can't do it herself; she gets someone to teach her. All the family functions are held at her home. She's handled every funeral arrangement we've ever had. She reminds me of the Energizer Bunny... And she's never had a drinking or drug problem. I don't know that she tries to control others, but she certainly keeps her own world in check.
>
> I think you're first born theory is probably very valid, but there are always exceptions. My middle sister and I are definitely polar opposites.
>
> BTW, how is your Dad doing? Is the Zypreza still working out for him? I hope both of you are doing well.
>
> Greg
>
>
> > "Well, maybe the second time... Anyway, after giving this some more thought, I'd like to try to use "time-outs" more, as an "alternative sentence"."
> >
> > I was just thinking that the Boss (Bob) must be a first born. First borns usually need a little more control or like to control their environment more than later siblings.
> >
> > I'm the youngest. My brother use to always say the song by Cindy Lauper (sp) "Girls just want to have fun" described me. Suprisingly I married a first born, it's fun to try and get him to lighten up and he keeps me a little responsible.
> >
> > Does anyone agree with this theory?
> >
> > Willow
Posted by Noa on May 31, 2001, at 7:46:48
In reply to Re: time-out Birth order?, posted by Rach on May 31, 2001, at 6:24:10
Shar, interesting. The spacing in my family is sister-6.7 yrs-brother-20 months-me-4.4 yrs.-brother. My older brother and I seem to have the most common childhood experiences, for obvious reasons, but only on the surface. Gender made a big difference in terms of my mother's issues and how she related to us. My sister is really like an only because she was one for quite a while. I don't know what you would consider a large gap, but the gap between me and my younger brother might have contributed to that semi-only effect. I left home at 17, so he was there with my parents for 5 years before college (and actually lived at home for the first year of college, so make that 6). He and my mother are remarkably different in many ways but remarkably the same in others (like the "agenda man" thing).
I think one thing that did affect my developemnt was being born not long after my brother. I think my mother was overwhelmed--two kids in diapers, cribs, etc. She likes to tell amusing stories about all the outrageous things my brother would do, as a toddler, just when my mother would sit down to feed me (her favorite is that he decided to clean the cat and went chasing after the cat all over the house pouring a can of ajax powder). Also, I recently found out some things about my mother's childhood that I think contribute to her identifying with me (unconsciously). I had always thought my mother was second-born, but it turns out she was third born. When she was an infant, her 3 year old brother was killed when he was hit by a truck. Sounds far-fetched, but I think it is likely that this affected her feelings as a mother of an infant girl and an active boy toddler.
I guess it makes sense to me that birth order would contribute, along with spacing, but not to foget things like innate temperament, health, family environment, our individual relationships with each parent, etc.
This is the end of the thread.
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