Psycho-Babble Social Thread 259

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Brain blood flow and depression...

Posted by dj on August 27, 2000, at 13:33:15

I think I posted this some time back... worth re-posting as makes some interesting biological and psychological linkages...

"Depression leaves sufferer at a loss Restoring blood balance in the brain key to treatment, researcher says

Saturday, May 1, 1999
WALLACE IMMEN
The Globe and Mail


If you can't lose the blues, it's because you aren't thinking straight.

For the first time, a researcher in Canada has offered an explanation for why people who are very sad or depressed lose the ability to concentrate and think through their problems.

Dr. Helen Mayberg says two parts of the brain work like the ends of a see-saw. When a person is experiencing strong emotions, blood flow increases in the brain's emotional centre, with a corresponding decrease in the area that handles thinking.

But while the balance of the blood flow evens out quickly in healthy people, allowing them to snap out of their muddle, the imbalance persists in people suffering from depression, bringing malaise and loss of appetite.

The finding suggests that treatments could focus on this brain balance and shorten the time it takes to get better, said Dr. Mayberg, who holds the Rotman chair in neuropsychiatry at the University of Toronto and Baycrest Centre.

She also found that drugs such as the antidepressant Prozac and therapy can both help restore the balance.

The study used brain scans showing differences in activity in the limbic area, which registers emotions, and the cortical region, where thoughts are processed.

Scans were taken of eight men and eight women with severe depression and compared with eight other subjects who had no symptoms of depression.

When the healthy people were scanned, they were told to recite the details of an extremely sad experience in their lives.

The patients were in tears within a few minutes, and the brain images showed a reduction of 10 to 15 per cent in blood flow in the thinking region, along with up to 20-per-cent reduction in the area's energy use.

After their sad thoughts stopped, the imbalance disappeared within minutes.

The depressed patients did not recover on their own, but with therapy achieved a balance after two to 15 weeks. Half were given Prozac, while the rest took a placebo. All of them had cognitive therapy, a counselling treatment that trained them to shift their attention away from their mood and develop coping strategies.

The results appear today in the American Journal of Psychiatry.

"What you need to do to get well is decrease the activity in the limbic region in the lower rear of the brain," Dr. Mayberg said in an interview. She said it is not a question of thinking harder, but of refocusing.

She said antidepressants have effects on many parts of the brain and future medications might be designed to home in more directly on this problem."

 

Re: Brain blood flow and depression...

Posted by tina on August 27, 2000, at 17:53:06

In reply to Brain blood flow and depression..., posted by dj on August 27, 2000, at 13:33:15

Is this for real dj. Wow, that packs a punch doesn't it? Where do you find this stuff?
Interesting to say the least! I wonder if this screwy blood flow problem can be an inherited trait too and as such be twice as troublesome is some people? Hmmmmmmm...

> I think I posted this some time back... worth re-posting as makes some interesting biological and psychological linkages...
>
> "Depression leaves sufferer at a loss Restoring blood balance in the brain key to treatment, researcher says
>
> Saturday, May 1, 1999
> WALLACE IMMEN
> The Globe and Mail
>
>
> If you can't lose the blues, it's because you aren't thinking straight.
>
> For the first time, a researcher in Canada has offered an explanation for why people who are very sad or depressed lose the ability to concentrate and think through their problems.
>
> Dr. Helen Mayberg says two parts of the brain work like the ends of a see-saw. When a person is experiencing strong emotions, blood flow increases in the brain's emotional centre, with a corresponding decrease in the area that handles thinking.
>
> But while the balance of the blood flow evens out quickly in healthy people, allowing them to snap out of their muddle, the imbalance persists in people suffering from depression, bringing malaise and loss of appetite.
>
> The finding suggests that treatments could focus on this brain balance and shorten the time it takes to get better, said Dr. Mayberg, who holds the Rotman chair in neuropsychiatry at the University of Toronto and Baycrest Centre.
>
> She also found that drugs such as the antidepressant Prozac and therapy can both help restore the balance.
>
> The study used brain scans showing differences in activity in the limbic area, which registers emotions, and the cortical region, where thoughts are processed.
>
> Scans were taken of eight men and eight women with severe depression and compared with eight other subjects who had no symptoms of depression.
>
> When the healthy people were scanned, they were told to recite the details of an extremely sad experience in their lives.
>
> The patients were in tears within a few minutes, and the brain images showed a reduction of 10 to 15 per cent in blood flow in the thinking region, along with up to 20-per-cent reduction in the area's energy use.
>
> After their sad thoughts stopped, the imbalance disappeared within minutes.
>
> The depressed patients did not recover on their own, but with therapy achieved a balance after two to 15 weeks. Half were given Prozac, while the rest took a placebo. All of them had cognitive therapy, a counselling treatment that trained them to shift their attention away from their mood and develop coping strategies.
>
> The results appear today in the American Journal of Psychiatry.
>
> "What you need to do to get well is decrease the activity in the limbic region in the lower rear of the brain," Dr. Mayberg said in an interview. She said it is not a question of thinking harder, but of refocusing.
>
> She said antidepressants have effects on many parts of the brain and future medications might be designed to home in more directly on this problem."

 

Re: Brain blood flow and depression...

Posted by dj on August 27, 2000, at 21:53:01

In reply to Re: Brain blood flow and depression..., posted by tina on August 27, 2000, at 17:53:06

> Is this for real dj. Wow, that packs a punch doesn't it? Where do you find this stuff?
> Interesting to say the least! I wonder if this screwy blood flow problem can be an inherited trait too and as such be twice as troublesome is >some people? Hmmmmmmm...

Tina,

It's a genuine article that I think I read offline originally and then copied on-line, which is how I often find stuff or just stumbling around on-line.

Whether it's an inherited trait or one we develop, I don't know. The fact that the pattern can be influenced both with meds. and therapy I think is the important point. Now if we could just find a way to do that quickly and more effectively... : )

Sante!

dj

 

Re: Brain blood flow and depression...

Posted by shar on August 28, 2000, at 0:10:46

In reply to Re: Brain blood flow and depression..., posted by dj on August 27, 2000, at 21:53:01

Ok, this is a serious statement. For several months now, I have been wanting to get a slant board or something similar so I could get my head down and my feet up. It has been like a real gut urge. I haven't done it, but I did buy some niacin which (I was told by my mom's cardiologist) should help with circulation in the brain. Of course, then I have the all over body flush and itch when I take it.

It's like my body is saying get some blood to your head!

Shar


> > Is this for real dj. Wow, that packs a punch doesn't it? Where do you find this stuff?
> > Interesting to say the least! I wonder if this screwy blood flow problem can be an inherited trait too and as such be twice as troublesome is >some people? Hmmmmmmm...
>
> Tina,
>
> It's a genuine article that I think I read offline originally and then copied on-line, which is how I often find stuff or just stumbling around on-line.
>
> Whether it's an inherited trait or one we develop, I don't know. The fact that the pattern can be influenced both with meds. and therapy I think is the important point. Now if we could just find a way to do that quickly and more effectively... : )
>
> Sante!
>
> dj

 

Re: Brain blood flow and depression...

Posted by tdaneen on August 28, 2000, at 9:38:38

In reply to Brain blood flow and depression..., posted by dj on August 27, 2000, at 13:33:15

You know, when I glanced at this subject I thought it would about trepanning!!
As if I need a hole in my head with all my other problems!!

;^)

tdaneen

 

Re: Niacin?, etc. - Shar

Posted by dj on August 28, 2000, at 17:53:29

In reply to Re: Brain blood flow and depression..., posted by shar on August 28, 2000, at 0:10:46

>I did buy some niacin which (I was told by my mom's cardiologist) should help with circulation in the brain. Of course, then I have the all >over body flush and itch when I take it.


What is niacin, Shar?

Gigko may be something to consider. The following is from Dr. Andrew Weil's website:
http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil

Sharpen Your Senses With Ginkgo?
I've heard a lot about incorporating ginkgo into my life -- yet I wanted to make sure what benefits, if any, it contains. Is the hype true? Why should I take ginkgo? I'm a 27-year-old male, healthy, and I want to become more holistic in my life.
-- Jay White




(Published 6/12/97) Ginkgo is great, but I don't think you should take it just because it's there. There is a very large body of medical research showing that ginkgo increases blood circulation throughout the body, especially the head. It appears to make the membranes of red blood cells more elastic, allowing them to squeeze more easily through capillaries and small arteries. It also builds capillary strength and reduces blood loss from capillary vessels.
Ginkgo is particularly useful for older people with insufficient blood circulation to the brain; such circulatory insufficiency is a common cause of mental deficits -- poor memory, inability to concentrate and confusion. It's also a useful treatment for tinnitus and vertigo (through increased circulation to the ear), male impotence and peripheral arterial disease; finally, it's a good general tonic for elderly people.

Ginkgo is extracted from the leaves of Ginkgo biloba, the tree. The extract is very popular in Europe, and is approved in Germany for treating cerebral dysfunction. It is grown on plantations such as one in Sumter, S.C., where 10 million trees grow on 1,000 acres.

The effective dose of gingko is two tablets three times a day with meals. It usually takes six to eight weeks of use before the herb begins to show benefits. Ginkgo sometimes (albeit rarely) causes side effects such as gastrointestinal upset, headaches and allergic skin reactions -- so if you use it, watch for these.

I wouldn't recommend ginkgo to a healthy 27-year-old male just because you want to become more holistic. You would do better to work at developing a healthy lifestyle, as I advise in my 8 Week Program, through diet, exercise, relaxation techniques, getting enough rest and abandoning unhealthy habits. Then use supplements selectively for specific problems you may have. I do recommend antioxidant vitamins and minerals for everyone, but I generally recommend saving herbal remedies for when you need them.


 

Re: Niacin and blood flow, ahhhh....

Posted by dj on August 28, 2000, at 18:00:49

In reply to Re: Niacin?, etc. - Shar, posted by dj on August 28, 2000, at 17:53:29

More from Dr. W...http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/database/display/0,1412,118,00.html

Niacin (nicotinic acid, vitamin B-3) produces a dramatic reaction, called the "niacin flush," when you take a sufficient dose (usually 100 200 milligrams). About ten minutes after you swallow it, a sensation of prickly heat begins on the top of the head. This quickly develops into a wave of heat and redness that spreads down the whole body from the head to the feet. I imagine it feels like the "hot flash" that women experience in menopause. After another ten minutes the skin becomes blotchy instead of solid red, and the sensation becomes more itchy and crawly. All effects disappear thirty to forty-five minutes after taking the vitamin. Some people find this reaction interesting and pleasant; others can't stand it.

The niacin flush is the result of dilation of blood vessels in the skin due to the vitamin's effect on arteries and the nerves that regulate them. It is a harmless reaction and may even be of benefit in some people with problems of blood circulation. I recommend supplemental niacin for people with Raynaud's disease (episodes of painful, blanched fingers and hands, usually on exposure to cold), smokers with leg cramps at night, and people with cold extremities. The usual dose I suggest is 100 milligrams twice a day, taken with food to moderate the flushing.

In much higher doses, niacin lowers serum cholesterol, but it can also disturb liver function. People taking 1,000 milligrams two or three times a day have had dramatic drops in cholesterol within a few weeks, but some of them have developed nausea, jaundice, and elevated liver enzymes, a toxic picture mimicking hepatitis. These symptoms go away when they stop taking niacin. A new, much safer form of vitamin B-3 is now available in health-food stores. Called "flush-free" or "inositol-bound" niacin (or inositol hexanicotinate), it does not cause flushing, nausea, or liver disturbances. It is the only form I recommend for use as a cholesterol-lowering agent, and I believe it to be safer than pharmaceutical drugs used for this purpose. If you are going to try niacin to bring your cholesterol down, observe these precautions: (1) never use ordinary niacin; use only the inositol-bound form; (2) never use time-release forms of niacin; they are more likely to be toxic; (3) do not exceed 1000 milligrams three times a day; (4) have liver function tests done before the start of therapy and at intervals during it, and stop the therapy if test results are abnormal; (5) discontinue niacin if nausea or any other gastrointestinal symptoms appear; (6) monitor serum cholesterol at monthly intervals, and reduce the dose of niacin to the lowest possible level to maintain improvement.


Do not take high doses of niacin if you are pregnant or if you have ulcers, gout, diabetes, gallbladder disease, liver disease, or have had a recent heart attack.
You will often see niacinamide, a closely related substance, on shelves next to niacin. Niacinamide has the same vitamin activity but does not cause flushing. However, it is ineffective for the treatment of circulatory problems or elevated cholesterol. Do not use it.

Pyridoxine (vitamin B-6) has a number of interesting effects in addition to its actions as a vitamin. High doses (100 milligrams two or three times a day) help relieve nerve compression injuries (like carpal tunnel syndrome), premenstrual syndrome (PMS), and some cases of depression andarthritis. Pyridoxine also helps protect immunity and increases the incidence of remembered dreams.

Although water-soluble vitamins are not thought of as having any toxicity, a few cases of nerve damage have occurred in people taking more than 300 milligrams of pyridoxine a day. I recommend staying below this dose and discontinuing the vitamin if any unusual numbness appears.

 

Re: Niacin and blood flow, ahhhh....

Posted by shar on August 28, 2000, at 23:44:20

In reply to Re: Niacin and blood flow, ahhhh...., posted by dj on August 28, 2000, at 18:00:49

dj,
The ginko sounds very good. I had heard it being used for memory, but did not know about it's circulatory benefits. (I've never really liked the niacin flush...)

Thanks!
Shar


> More from Dr. W...http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/database/display/0,1412,118,00.html
>
> Niacin (nicotinic acid, vitamin B-3) produces a dramatic reaction, called the "niacin flush," when you take a sufficient dose (usually 100 200 milligrams). About ten minutes after you swallow it, a sensation of prickly heat begins on the top of the head. This quickly develops into a wave of heat and redness that spreads down the whole body from the head to the feet. I imagine it feels like the "hot flash" that women experience in menopause. After another ten minutes the skin becomes blotchy instead of solid red, and the sensation becomes more itchy and crawly. All effects disappear thirty to forty-five minutes after taking the vitamin. Some people find this reaction interesting and pleasant; others can't stand it.
>
> The niacin flush is the result of dilation of blood vessels in the skin due to the vitamin's effect on arteries and the nerves that regulate them. It is a harmless reaction and may even be of benefit in some people with problems of blood circulation. I recommend supplemental niacin for people with Raynaud's disease (episodes of painful, blanched fingers and hands, usually on exposure to cold), smokers with leg cramps at night, and people with cold extremities. The usual dose I suggest is 100 milligrams twice a day, taken with food to moderate the flushing.
>
> In much higher doses, niacin lowers serum cholesterol, but it can also disturb liver function. People taking 1,000 milligrams two or three times a day have had dramatic drops in cholesterol within a few weeks, but some of them have developed nausea, jaundice, and elevated liver enzymes, a toxic picture mimicking hepatitis. These symptoms go away when they stop taking niacin. A new, much safer form of vitamin B-3 is now available in health-food stores. Called "flush-free" or "inositol-bound" niacin (or inositol hexanicotinate), it does not cause flushing, nausea, or liver disturbances. It is the only form I recommend for use as a cholesterol-lowering agent, and I believe it to be safer than pharmaceutical drugs used for this purpose. If you are going to try niacin to bring your cholesterol down, observe these precautions: (1) never use ordinary niacin; use only the inositol-bound form; (2) never use time-release forms of niacin; they are more likely to be toxic; (3) do not exceed 1000 milligrams three times a day; (4) have liver function tests done before the start of therapy and at intervals during it, and stop the therapy if test results are abnormal; (5) discontinue niacin if nausea or any other gastrointestinal symptoms appear; (6) monitor serum cholesterol at monthly intervals, and reduce the dose of niacin to the lowest possible level to maintain improvement.
>
>
> Do not take high doses of niacin if you are pregnant or if you have ulcers, gout, diabetes, gallbladder disease, liver disease, or have had a recent heart attack.
> You will often see niacinamide, a closely related substance, on shelves next to niacin. Niacinamide has the same vitamin activity but does not cause flushing. However, it is ineffective for the treatment of circulatory problems or elevated cholesterol. Do not use it.
>
> Pyridoxine (vitamin B-6) has a number of interesting effects in addition to its actions as a vitamin. High doses (100 milligrams two or three times a day) help relieve nerve compression injuries (like carpal tunnel syndrome), premenstrual syndrome (PMS), and some cases of depression andarthritis. Pyridoxine also helps protect immunity and increases the incidence of remembered dreams.
>
> Although water-soluble vitamins are not thought of as having any toxicity, a few cases of nerve damage have occurred in people taking more than 300 milligrams of pyridoxine a day. I recommend staying below this dose and discontinuing the vitamin if any unusual numbness appears.

 

Re: Gingko caution...

Posted by CarolAnn on August 30, 2000, at 12:00:22

In reply to Re: Niacin and blood flow, ahhhh...., posted by shar on August 28, 2000, at 23:44:20

Gingko interferes with the blood's ability to clot. So, if taking blood thinners or if you use aspirin, you probably shouldn't take Gingko, 'cause if you injure yourself, your body won't be able to stop the bleeding. And, if any type of surgery(even minor) is in your future, definitly don't take Gingko, in fact some surgery "prep" info actually says this.
Just an FYI, CarolAnn


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