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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 15:44:28
In reply to Re: He's not dying, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 13, 2014, at 19:59:10
> You know, while I appreciate your concern, I resent your bringing Babble Administration into my current crisis. It just reminds me of some of the last work my therapist and I did together.
>
> You let us grow to be involved in that place, and then you took it away from us. ... You provided a place for us, then you yanked it out from under us.I brought it up because this got me thinking about my having hurt you before. I'm sorry if doing so added to the hurt you're feeling now.
> Not that I really need or want to know the particulars. I want to know if he could have sent a personal note but chose not to, or if he wasn't able to. ... I want to know if he actually cares about me. I want to know if twenty years of convincing me to extend myself from my protective shell were based on a lie.
In my case, I could've sent a note to you, or all the deputies, or even posted something. It occurred to me, but I didn't. Does that count as choosing not to? It wasn't that I decided not to. I see it as avoidance or denial or something. I did care about you all. Providing this site wasn't based on a lie.
--
> I'm actually hoping that there's more involved here than his taking care of himself. Therapists have a greater responsibility to those who rely on them than that. ... It would be fine if he couldn't deal with interacting with me right now. But it's not fine if he has the oxygen to write an impersonal email, to record a voice message, but doesn't bother to write a couple of sentences to someone he has known for twenty years, someone he knows does (and that he has allowed to) see him as a parent.
>
> I hope there's more to it than that. He recognizes, at least when not under pressure, the responsibility a therapist has to a client. And that a board administrator, if you wish to bring yourself into this, has to a board.If I imagine suffocating and someone I depended on not helping me, I think I'd feel hurt and shocked and confused and angry and abandoned and frightened.
Bob
Posted by Twinleaf on March 14, 2014, at 18:54:14
In reply to Re: you yanked it out from under us, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 15:44:28
I think many of us very much welcome discussion or thoughts from you about your sudden absence from Babble a while ago, and your return with new guidelines. The absence itself was anxiety-provoking to me because I did not know the reasons for it, and couldn't imagine what might have happened. The new guidelines are anxiety-provoking also, because it is not very clear yet what they are - at least, not clear to me. I am sure you will find a lot of respect and understanding from many posters as we become better informed. Growth and change are a wonderful part of life, but it does help to know at least something about what is happening!
If I could make one suggestion: this is an important issue for Babble as a whole, and should help the community a lot, but it does not need to be connected to Dinah's issues, which are just between her and her therapist. If you feel that you have inadvertently hurt her, a private communication concerning that would seem to be more appropriate.
I would very much like to see a continuing discussion of the changes in your thinking and feeling about Babble on Administration.
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 14, 2014, at 20:33:56
In reply to Changes over time » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on March 14, 2014, at 18:54:14
I quite agree, and I felt quite hurt at the time even though I wasn't an active deputy.
Dinah has served Dr Bob with the most sincere trust and vulnerability than any of us (perhaps present absent deputy excluded). I personally feel she deserves an enormous apology and huge leeway in expressing any upset or dissatisfaction, given her level of tolerance throughout her tenure here.
Please, Dr Bob, consider being a gentleman and a sensitive person in allowing Dinah in expressing her most painful, personal feelings. Speaking from a Doctor's perspective - and an administrator's, might not have been appropriate.
Remember, it is the people who make up Babble who make it special. I think you heard that message loud and clear.
PC
Posted by Twinleaf on March 15, 2014, at 12:28:19
In reply to Changes over time » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on March 14, 2014, at 18:54:14
In January, I was blocked for two weeks for suggesting that you had hurt Dinah's feelings - enough so that she ceased posting for quite a while. Now, two months later, you are apologizing to her for the same thing. How about apologizing to me for an unfair and unnecessary block - those hurt too.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 15, 2014, at 17:11:48
In reply to Changes over time » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on March 14, 2014, at 18:54:14
> I would very much like to see a continuing discussion of the changes in your thinking and feeling about Babble on Administration.
Sure, here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20140304/msgs/1062570.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 15, 2014, at 17:18:09
In reply to Re: Changes over time + Dr Bob » Twinleaf, posted by Partlycloudy on March 14, 2014, at 20:33:56
> Dinah has served Dr Bob with the most sincere trust and vulnerability than any of us (perhaps present absent deputy excluded). I personally feel she deserves an enormous apology and huge leeway in expressing any upset or dissatisfaction, given her level of tolerance throughout her tenure here.
>
> Please, Dr Bob, consider being a gentleman and a sensitive person in allowing Dinah in expressing her most painful, personal feelings. Speaking from a Doctor's perspective - and an administrator's, might not have been appropriate.I try to be flexible. And made this a separate thread to give her leeway above to express herself. I also thought speaking from another perspective might not have been supportive.
Bob
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 16, 2014, at 13:10:58
In reply to Re: leeway in expressing upset or dissatisfaction, posted by Dr. Bob on March 15, 2014, at 17:18:09
Very true. I would hope Dinah will return, but in her present state of upheaval, I don't expect her to grace our boards for a while.
I wish there was a differentiation between you posting as an administrator, and you contributing as a member of the community. It can get quite muddy.
PC
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 16, 2014, at 17:17:05
In reply to Re: leeway in expressing upset or dissatisfaction » Dr. Bob, posted by Partlycloudy on March 16, 2014, at 13:10:58
> I wish there was a differentiation between you posting as an administrator, and you contributing as a member of the community. It can get quite muddy.
I try not to contribute, but I'm not always good at self-control.
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on March 16, 2014, at 20:28:04
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by Dr. Bob on March 16, 2014, at 17:17:05
> > I wish there was a differentiation between you posting as an administrator, and you contributing as a member of the community. It can get quite muddy.
> I try not to contribute, but I'm not always good at self-control.:(
I think that is sad. I mean, I wish you could / would contribute more.
But I guess I do appreciate that not everyone wants that.
Posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2014, at 22:48:49
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by alexandra_k on March 16, 2014, at 20:28:04
I for one like Dr Bob's contributions Phillipa
Posted by vwoolf on March 17, 2014, at 1:03:47
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by Dr. Bob on March 16, 2014, at 17:17:05
> I try not to contribute, but I'm not always good at self-control.
>
> BobI think it would be very helpful if you did contribute when you feel moved to, not as a judge or administrator, but simply as a person like us, speaking from your own felt phenomenological world with all its distortions. In my own therapy it is what I have found most real and un-mad making. It is what has been important to me in meeting you. That I can become a person in relation to your personhood.
This strange idea that the psychiatrist or therapist should be some kind of outside objective observer or judge just doesn't work. It leads to hubris, and doesn't help us to find agency, it takes it away.
Just my two cents worth....
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 17, 2014, at 10:44:00
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by Dr. Bob on March 16, 2014, at 17:17:05
Perhaps it is the sense of frustration I felt as a deputy in being able to express myself, and why we had posting handles such as "Deputy Partlycloudy" to make sure the community knew which side of our mouths we were posting out of.
Sorry about the mixed metaphor.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2014, at 0:18:36
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by vwoolf on March 17, 2014, at 1:03:47
> > I try not to contribute, but I'm not always good at self-control.
>
> :(
>
> I think that is sad. I mean, I wish you could / would contribute more.
>
> alexandra_k> I for one like Dr Bob's contributions
>
> Phillipa> I think it would be very helpful if you did contribute when you feel moved to, not as a judge or administrator, but simply as a person like us, speaking from your own felt phenomenological world with all its distortions. In my own therapy it is what I have found most real and un-mad making. It is what has been important to me in meeting you. That I can become a person in relation to your personhood.
>
> vwoolfThanks, maybe I should rephrase that:
I try not to contribute, but I'm not always good at self-control, but maybe that's not a bad thing.
Dinah did say herself:
> And yet he had an absolute genius and sort of a fearlessness in being authentic *within* the therapy room. In the space between us. I think that's what I needed to get better. The authenticity in that space. The lack of pretense or artificiality *in that space*, no matter how artificial the relationship may have been.
Bob
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 18, 2014, at 12:12:36
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2014, at 0:18:36
Sorry, I guess I missed the point. It is difficult to ascertain when your authenticity posting is as an administrator, or as a regular person.
That's MY problem. You are always authentic.
PC
Posted by Twinleaf on March 18, 2014, at 17:12:40
In reply to Re: differentiation, posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2014, at 0:18:36
You seem to have developed differing roles and responses depending on which poster you are talking to. You indicated today on Administration that you found Ron's verbal abuse of Scott amusing. A while ago, I think you would almost certainly have considered it uncivil.
By contrast, on this thread you are indicating that you might like to function in a similiar way to Dinah's and vWoolf's therapists at their most natural and best, despite the statement at the top of the board that the discussions here do not constitute therapy. There are some very vulnerable people here, perhaps without therapists of their own, who may become excessively dependent on you - this isn't in their best interest, because you really can't be a therapist to them in such a public, rapidly-changing forum. There simply isn't a way for you to know them well enough.
I am also very hurt and disappointed that you have singled me out for exceptionally harsh and punitive treatment. Many others, in addition to me, have noticed this and commented repeatedly about it, to absolutely no avail.
We just don't seem to have an administrator any longer with fair, uniform standards which we can understand and work with.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 20, 2014, at 0:21:08
In reply to Re: differing roles..... » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on March 18, 2014, at 17:12:40
I thought the idea was that Babble couldn't be considered therapy because the mechanism of theraputic change - that whole right hemisphere emotional attunement connection thing - was absent from internet communications...
So... How could one get attached?
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 2:06:44
In reply to Re: differing roles..... » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on March 18, 2014, at 17:12:40
> You seem to have developed differing roles and responses depending on which poster you are talking to.
Well, I'm only human.
> on this thread you are indicating that you might like to function in a similiar way to Dinah's and vWoolf's therapists at their most natural and best, despite the statement at the top of the board that the discussions here do not constitute therapy.
Being authentic doesn't necessarily mean you're being a therapist.
> There are some very vulnerable people here, perhaps without therapists of their own, who may become excessively dependent on you - this isn't in their best interest, because you really can't be a therapist to them
Not being a therapist doesn't necessarily mean people can't depend on you.
> you have singled me out for exceptionally harsh and punitive treatment.
>
> We just don't seem to have an administrator any longer with fair, uniform standards which we can understand and work with.Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceI tried exceptionally lenient treatment:
minimal administrative action
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20131217/msgs/1060325.htmlmild sanction
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20140304/msgs/1062264.htmland it seems not to have been effective, so I'm returning to standard operating procedure and blocking you.
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2014, at 15:18:23
In reply to Re: differing roles..... » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on March 18, 2014, at 17:12:40
I wish I could contact you, either by Babblemail or email. Not only to offer support, which I'd like to do, but also very selfishly because you've been so helpful to me.
I really don't understand the rules here anymore. My understanding that sh*t-throwing is tolerated here, and considered a good healthy thing, is one reason I chose to leave. But if that weren't enough, my lack of understanding of current rules would make me afraid to post.
I'm sorry, Twinleaf.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 23:07:55
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 2:06:44
> Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
And redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20140304/msgs/1062899.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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