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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
Since starting with my "new" T a few months ago, things have gotten really stirred up for me. I've been in therapy for years, but this is the first time in a long time that its been real therapy, real work. It's hard!
I experienced a lot of neglect from my parents in my childhood... emotional, medical, and in some ways, physical. I cant say I really experienced abuse in any way... all of the problems of my childhood were caused by things NOT being done, things being ignored. One thing I still struggle with today is what my T calls minimizing. I was never hit, never touched inappropriately... so how bad could it have been? The rational part of me knows that it was PLENTY bad. The professional in me (I work in child welfare) knows that neglect is just as bad as abuse in the life of a child. The effects are just as enduring and traumatic. But I constantly feel like maybe I'm making it all up, making a big deal over nothing, etc. Maybe I was just spoiled and angry I didnt get everything I wanted all the time. I dont know. My old T used to use one story I'd told her as an example to Ts she supervised of parents being negligent and disengaged... that should tell me it's real I guess, but I'm still really not sure.
Anyway, my T has suggested that I do some research/reading about the effects of neglect and disengaged mothers etc. She is going to do the same this week. I've done a lot of reading on abuse/neglect but straight neglect (without abuse) seems to be ignored a lot in the things I've read. Can anyone suggest anything? Books, websites, journal articles... I'm open to anything.
Some of my self destructive urges (self-injury) are cropping up again by talking about all this with my T. (I saw her today). Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it to drag all this up. If I was fairly stable without digging into this, why dig? Ugh.
Posted by DAisym on March 24, 2009, at 19:58:27
In reply to Child neglect, posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
Neglect is a painful subject because being ignored is the most intolerable situation a mammal can face. We are, at our core, "pack" animals - we pretty much need human interaction to survive.
Most of the studies of neglect have been done on Russian Infants but I'll look up some when I get home. Bruce Perry has a bunch of work on "relational poverty" - the lack of human interaction, kindness and caring that a child receives. The brain actually is smaller in these kids. Even kids who are abused are getting some kind of attention, although it has its own negative fallout.
I'm struggling a lot with the minimizing aspects. I think we were taught "it's not that bad" and I think we have control over it if we keep it pushed down. I also think that if we admit it was "that bad" - we have to face who our parents were/are and that can be too much. Plus I don't have to believe it all if I can make you believe it wasn't that bad.
I do this to protect myself alot. After all, what will it mean if I wasn't "enough" to deserve their attention, protection or caring?
And I also fight those urges to make it hurt outside the way it hurts inside. Because I know it will give me something else to focus on.
You ask a really big and important question at the end of your post. Why should you dig it up?Many, many therapists will tell you not to. Many more will say you don't need to in order to heal. And some say you have to so that it doesn't come up again. I think you have to decide for yourself. If you are doing well and it isn't pushing up and into your life with things like depression, bad relationships, self-harm, anxiety, etc. - then I think you could leave it alone. On the other hand, if you were always sort of treading water, but not drowning, you should probably look at why this is - before a storm comes and waves get over your head. That is what happened to me. It is important to do this work when you are not in crisis - because it is hard enough without dealing with a crisis too. But I understand the question all too well - If I'm not in crisis then let's leave everything alone so I can just keep my head above that water.
But don't you want more than that too?
Posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2009, at 23:58:28
In reply to Re: Child neglect » yellowbird01, posted by DAisym on March 24, 2009, at 19:58:27
I do a lot of rationilzation. Hey my Mother was sick and the effects of the meds lead her to sleep all day. And always in the hospital I just took care of myself as father took care of sister she went with him. I didn't think of it for many years. Then it started to pop up. Like hey wait a minute who took care of me? Then I say well it could have been much worse. Love Phillipa
Posted by sassyfrancesca on March 25, 2009, at 8:35:17
In reply to Child neglect, posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
(((Yellowbird))): Yes, obviously you were abused as a child (I was also, as a child)...sadly, it is so common.
The best book I ever read on the subject of childhood and overcoming the horror: The Transcendent Child by ...gosh, I am sorry just had a blank slate in my mind...I will come back and give you the author.
I consider myself a "transcendent child"---I overcame (and thrived) from a childhood of verbal and physical abuse (molested by a neighbor), had my hand held over an open fire by another drunken neighbor, extreme poverty (no phone, car, refrigerator, bathtub, etc.)....120-year old tenement house with cockroaches and rats and never knew my father; snow which came in thru a crack in the wall.
I joined the army right out of high school (thank God for the army), and then married the original abuer (mother) and tried to fix the past.
31 years of abuse and then divorce, and then experiencing spiritual abuse; my church of 31 years voting me out of membership, with my name up on a big screen, followed by the words: "Conduct Unbecoming a Child of God.
www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com was the result of this debacle.
I have heard the book: The Courage to Heal is an excellent book, but have not read it.
The book I recommend to everyone on the whole planet: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans
Your thoughts and feelings are not right or wrong, they just are....and should be processed and honored.
1 in 3 women are being abused; those are such staggering statistics....if we are abused as children, we are more than likely to marry an abuser.....then it takes forever to figure out what we have done.
Hugs and Love, Sassy
Posted by onceupon on March 25, 2009, at 9:38:37
In reply to Child neglect, posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
Hi yellowbird - I resonated strongly with what you wrote about minimizing. In some ways, it seems like minimizing keeps difficult experiences alive for me in ways that are more painful than bringing them up. I'm not sure if I can articulate this at the moment. I'm going to think about it and come back to it.
But I wanted to recommend "The Drama of the Gifted Child" by Alice Miller. Although she writes about abuse, I still think it's meaningful because she talks about ongoing effects of ignoring the past and/or not seeing it in its entirety.
I wish you peace on your journey. I know it's not easy.
Posted by garnet71 on March 25, 2009, at 10:13:37
In reply to Child neglect, posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
Hi Yellowbird,
This might not resonate with you, but I've dealt with neglect, and voicelessness is a concept that can help explain emotions that result.
http://www.voicelessness.com/littlevoices.html
It possibly could also explain the need or your instinct to justify the degree of abuse in relation to the pain you feel.
My parents had all 3 of us in 3 years and we were all birth control babies. I felt completely unwanted. I felt I was never parented. I like to think my parents did the best they could. My mother could have had post-partum depression for all I know. My father had severe social anxiety and so much pain from his childhood.
While perhaps unlike you, we had emotional abuse, I don't underestimate the effects of neglect. But I used to think, wow, some people had it so much worse--why are they not all dysfunctional like my family? My brother, who I haven't spoken with in years, developed what I think are sociopathic traits. It's so painful to think of the suffering he endured. When I posted about anger above on this page, after reading the comments, I started thinking of my brother and thinking of his pain, for some reason, seems more painful than my own. So I stopped thinking about it for a while. I try to divert my thoughts from childhood pain to intellectual thought about the world around me. I'm always torn between the 2-I go back and forth all the time. It would be helpful to be in therapy.
This song usually reminds me of childhood, but when I heard it today, I thought of you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wif6VTBM3qk
Posted by fleeting flutterby on March 25, 2009, at 12:03:21
In reply to Re: Child neglect » yellowbird01, posted by garnet71 on March 25, 2009, at 10:13:37
>
> This might not resonate with you, but I've dealt with neglect, and voicelessness is a concept that can help explain emotions that result.
>
> http://www.voicelessness.com/littlevoices.html
>---flutterby: Oh my gosh!! thank you for sharing this..... the "littlevoice" of being sensitive and giving fits me to a T!! I've actually had people ask me what I want-- and I have no clue.... my whole upbringing was catering to my mother, father and older sibling's needs. My wants and needs disappeared by the time I was 5 years old.
Experienced neglect mostly but also, emotional abuse and some physical/sexual abuse.thank you -- I'm going to print this out.... it's amazing.... I have even volunteered my whole adult life(like the article says!) and felt I had to-- in order to justify my existence.....
wow-- this is huge for me!!.... thank you again.
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Kath on March 25, 2009, at 19:38:30
In reply to Child neglect, posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
Hi (((you)))
I really, truly am a believer in trying to heal without retraumatizing!
If you were doing not badly & the digging is causing you to feel worse, I think (my very own personal belief) that it is better NOT to dig.
I have found some of the alternative methods, especially TAT, to be SO gentle & healing & one doesn't even have to know the details of what is being healed.
Please feel free to babblemail me.
Here's a link to a quick demonstration of TAT. There are lengthier versions, some with sentences that you can say. If I wake up feeling awful from bad dreams, I just do the TAT hold for about 4 minutes, if necessary. Often, after a few minutes, I start to think about what I'm going to do - or 'oh jeez, I have to remember to...' etc.
I'm concerned about you. Please let us know how you're doing. We care about you.
xoxo Kath
Here's the link:
Posted by Cass on March 28, 2009, at 22:49:06
In reply to Child neglect, posted by yellowbird01 on March 24, 2009, at 18:52:16
This is a really great thread. I was also highly neglected. I can relate to what a lot of you have written. I've gotten a lot out of Alice Miller's books, "Thou Shalt Not be Aware" and "The Drama of the Gifted Child".
Posted by yellowbird01 on March 29, 2009, at 12:59:51
In reply to Re: Child neglect, posted by Cass on March 28, 2009, at 22:49:06
Thank you everyone for responding to me. I'm feeling really guilty and beating myself up a bit because of this pattern I seem to have (at least my last 2 posts) of posting and not responding back for awhile. It's not because I'm not reading your responses... I am! I just feel like my world is spinning and I cant get my head together enough to respond meaningfully most of the time. Therapy is very, very hard right now, and my job is particularly stressful and busy right now. I dont mean to make an excuse... just an explanation, I guess. I'm sorry if anyone feels that their responses arent being valued.. they very much are.
I will definitely look at the books and other things you all have suggested. My T is supposed to be looking this week as well so hopefully she'll have found some good stuff too. When I think of my childhood right now, of the things my parents did (and didnt do!), I dont feel much emotion at all. Just the facts. But I've noticed that since my session with T last week, I'm very sensitive and a bit raw. The oddest things have hit me in a painful way this week... for instance, hearing a coworker mention planning to call her mother about something - it wasnt even a big thing! I've heard people say that a million times before. But this week, it hit me in a different way. Aloneness. The fact that I could never, ever call my mother for something real. I guess that all means that the emotions really are there, and theyre getting close to the surface. That's scary.
I agree with what you all said about the difficulty of neglect. I really relate to what was said about the issue of denying it was really "that bad" in order to protect yourself from the hurt of admitting that it really was bad.... because if it really was that bad, what does that mean about me? About my worthiness? I have a brother who is 8 years younger than me and was doted on VERY much by my mother. Probably to the extent that it was unhealthy as well, but it's hard not to just see it is... "she loved him SO much, and just ignored me because I wasnt good enough. I wasnt as good as him." I know intellectually that this isnt true, and it's about my parents issues, not about me.. but that can be hard.
I'm honestly scared to go back to therapy Tuesday. Not because of anything that happened last week... just because so much is being stirred up. I'm not afraid of therapy itself, I'm afraid of going back home after therapy.
Fun fun fun.
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