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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on June 19, 2008, at 1:42:09
Well, this is new. I've been dating a guy for almost 9 months now. All along I've had doubts, and we've had ups and downs, and very nearly broke up in April. I've asked her a million times, should I leave? She never answered yes or no. Now, she is pretty clearly saying to leave. There is some new information about him lately, but I'm annoyed she didn't tell me this sooner. She says "so that's my job?" Well, yes, I do rely on her to advise me about relationships.
She says the emotional pain I'm feeling in the relationship is a signal that important needs aren't being met. Well this is a surprise, too. I thought emotional pain was just part and parcel of relationships for me.
Then we did some EMDR, where I sort of free-associate from the pain, and after a while she says I'm in a box. I think there are only two choices-- men who are smart and functional and closed off from their emotions, and men who are touchy-feely to the point of being needy and under-functioning. Plus, I don't believe someone with the best of both worlds (rational and functional, yet feeling) exists, or if he does exist, I won't be good enough for him. She says I'm not getting what I want because I don't know what I want and I don't believe I deserve it.
Well OK, but this is awfully *clear* for my T. She rarely gives me such clear pronouncements about myself.
I wonder, is she changing her technique? Or does she really, really feel strongly that I need to leave this relationship?
I'm not sure I like this clear advice. Now if I don't leave, I'll feel like I'm really doing the wrong thing. Yet I should be glad for an end to the uncertainty.
She says this is how dating is, it takes several months to get to know what a person and what kind of relationship they do.
Here I thought it was all going to be about how I'm too needy and need to fix *me* some more. Or I need to practice better relationship strategy and keep waiting.
I can't believe I may have done a good enough job with this one. I can't believe it isn't all my fault it didn't work.
Hmmm.
Posted by Annierose on June 19, 2008, at 6:30:53
In reply to T advocates ending my relationship, posted by Tabitha on June 19, 2008, at 1:42:09
In general I do think therapists do not tell their clients what to do ... even if asked directly. Rather, they tend to ask questions to help you figure out what is best for you.
It does take several dates before you get to know someone. The first few weeks, both parties tend to be on their best behavior, lots of agreeing on both sides. The more we get to know someone, the more connected we begin to feel, our truer selves revealed themselves.
Just the fact that you asked your t earlier in the relationship, "Should I stay or go?" indicates on some level you knew this wasn't the right guy for you.
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2008, at 10:29:48
In reply to T advocates ending my relationship, posted by Tabitha on June 19, 2008, at 1:42:09
Hmmm..... This is a tough one.
My therapist is probably more directive than most. He never tells me what to do precisely. But I am rarely left in doubt of what he thinks. And frankly, I don't always listen to him. Some of his ideas are rather unworkable in the real nontherapy world. I'm sure they word great in his world.
As far as relationships go, I guess I'm less optimistic than your therapist. From my observations of nearly every marriage I've ever seen, even the most successful work around major flaws. And my rather cynical viewpoint is that even in those handful of homes that seem blissfully happy and straight out of Ozzie and Harriet, there are probably things going on beneath the surface that just aren't acted out in public.
I figure that in relationships you work on finding "good enough". Yes, it is true that smart and high functioning often coincides with not terribly emotionally available. (You can see where my personal preference lies here.) But it may not be realistic to see one person as meeting all needs. My husband meets some of my emotional needs, but not all of them. I meet some of his needs, but not all of them.
I figure there are some basic minimum requirements. A belief in at least some reasonable level of mutual respect and civility, absolutely no physical violence, no cruelty, and a firm belief in committing to work through problems. And some personal preferences, because we do need to find each other appealing. For example, I'd find a sense of humor and a fair degree of intelligence a bare minimum. And crinkly smiling eyes an added bonus. The requirements for different people are different, of course.
After that, one merely looks for flaws and strengths complementary with one's own. I can't think of one perfectly ideal mate among my acquaintance. But I can think of several acceptable mates with flaws and strengths that I either could not personally tolerate or that I could.
It's not terribly romantic. But building a life together is both not terribly romantic and an incredibly romantic and quixotic venture, IMO. The idea that two people who come from different family cultures and might as well be speaking two different languages because of it, can meld into a unit of their own is immensely romantic, don't you think? It might not be climbing tall mountains, but understanding and accepting differences seems just as venturesome.
So... I don't know whether I'm right or your therapist is right. But I'd say set your minimum standards and then compromise for anything above that. Because I think you're both right. The best of both worlds probably doesn't exist, and moreover emotional availability is not the only criterion - so the right amount of emotional availability plus the rest of the package might be a hard thing to find. But she may be right in that you don't set your minimum standards with regard to your actual worth. I don't really know the whole picture.
And that's just my own pragmatic view of relationships. I'm no expert. As you know I have been with one guy since high school. I may be totally and completely wrong.
Posted by Tabitha on June 19, 2008, at 13:08:58
In reply to Re: T advocates ending my relationship, posted by Annierose on June 19, 2008, at 6:30:53
Hi Annierose, yes she usually just answers questions with "what do you think?", which is why this latest development surprises me.
I'm probably anxious and pessimistic enough that I'd be questioning the rightness of any relationship, but it does say something that such serious doubts have surfaced so many times.
Posted by Tabitha on June 19, 2008, at 13:15:54
In reply to Re: T advocates ending my relationship » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2008, at 10:29:48
Dear Dinah, my guy has several good qualities, but he's no Mr Dinah. If I thought he'd marry me and meet some of my emotional needs and remain committed to working through problems, that would probably be "good enough". Well, the marrying part may be optional, I'd be happy with getting together 2 or 3 times a week.
It's exhausting trying to figure out. But last night my little girl felt relieved and hopeful at the idea of exiting the relationship. She hasn't felt hopeful about being in the relationship for a long time.
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2008, at 17:14:55
In reply to Re: T advocates ending my relationship » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on June 19, 2008, at 13:15:54
> But last night my little girl felt relieved and hopeful at the idea of exiting the relationship. She hasn't felt hopeful about being in the relationship for a long time.
Well, that says it all, doesn't it? The mind can argue one way or the other, and construct all sorts of rationales. But the reaction you feel when you reach a "decision" is a pretty accurate reflection of what you're really feeling. I am sometimes astonished by my reactions to things I thought I understood. And I've advocated the "decision" method of decision making to my son, who is not overly fond of final decisions.
This is the end of the thread.
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