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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by OzLand on August 5, 2007, at 22:29:33
I am feeling really hurt and sad because two friends of mine cannot step up to the plate and provide emotional support when someone else we all know starts sending me hostile messages, etc. It hurts as this is what I thought friends did for each other--acknowledge pain, hurt and let you know that they understand how you feel. No, these two people told me that they could not comment. It isn't like I was asking them to take sides. Another so-called friend has made no comment. These are women from my women's group. And I am friends with several of them outside of the group.
My therapist has had concerns about my work situation and the fact that I have not had any emotional support from my husband. I will say, though, since I talked to him, he has done better in this regard. He thinks it is terrible about my friends and wondered if I had not thought they were friends too soon, or at least shared too much too soon. GEE but that's what csa victims do as adults she says tongue in cheek, set themselves up to be hurt and in essense to be abused.
So, I know my therapist was glad I had friends who were supportive. Wait until I show him the emails from my so called friends. I guess we need to talk about how I have a tendency at times to become "friends" with people who are not really my friends. In the end they say and do hurtful things, and when the chips are down, they turn their backs on me. This really hurts. The person who was being so critical of me is really two-faced, nasty to me in emails and then goes to the web site and says all the right things and sounds so good--fools a lot of people. In some ways I want to expose her, and then I think no; she will be her own undoing eventually. Leave it alone.
I am pretty numb now I guess. So, I am not really doing okay. I don't know what my therapist will have to say, but I already know the link to csa and I guess we go in that direction. I hope the work thing does not rear it's ugly head next week or I know I will go off the edge of the clif. I know I am fairly fragile right now and just treading water. Could easily drown if someone just blows on me. I am back on my meds, dry mouth and all. I am on 30 mg. now, was on 40 mg of Parnate. I will go up to 40 mg. next weekend.
I certainly thank everyone here for their support. And I know you will be here for me if I crash. Thank you so much.
OzLand
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2007, at 12:47:19
In reply to Therapist is going to be even more concerned now, posted by OzLand on August 5, 2007, at 22:29:33
OZ I'm truly sorry. And people say I need women friends in real life. I think not as I've always had better relations with men. But something I've wanted to ask you what is csa? I don't know. I wish you luck with is situation try not the dwell on it. Love Phillipa
Posted by Honore on August 6, 2007, at 15:55:37
In reply to Therapist is going to be even more concerned now, posted by OzLand on August 5, 2007, at 22:29:33
Hi, Ozland. That sounds terribly disappointing and painful. It's so hard when seeming friends let you down-- when you look to them for concern and response-- and they back away, or become defensive.
I know how hard it is, though, to be a good friend. I try very hard myself-- even when I have conflicting loyalties-- to give my best to friends-- and to do the right thing by them. Maybe these women don't know how to handle those moments when they feel torn, or uncertain-- or start to feel they have to take sides-- and somehow have retreated to the awful position of slightly ganging up on one person. If so, that's really unworthy of them.
I very much hope there isn't any of that-- that's so awful when it happens-- and so often happens so incomprehensibly-- Often people give in to the one who's a greater threat-- and lose all sense of empathy, because they fear someone's turning their wrath on them. It does take a certain amount of courage sometimes to be a good friend-- and to say things in a careful, respectful, but clear way, to an angry person, -- that that person doesn't want to hear. Maybe whoever is attacking you has a tendency to do that-- and these women are responding self-protectively, rather than standing up for what's right. I don't know-- I've seen that happen too many times-- and often been baffled at the choices people make.
There are good friends out there, though. I'm fortunate to have one or two, I think (although I try not to expect too much, either)-- people I work with, with whom I've developed deeper relationships. I hope they would stand by me-- I know I would do that for them, no matter what.
But if you use this,as you say, to look more closely at who you pick as a friend-- and how you might overlook signals that the person isn't so trustworthy--it might be a chance to learn something valuable. But, you know-- it's so easy to be charmed and to care about people-- and only later to learn what they're like on a deeper level. It hurts when it happens-- but it's tempting too, to believe the best about people, and to be trusting.
Have any work problems have arisen, so far.? I'm glad you're back on the Parnate, although I hope taking it hasn't meant residual problems with whatever was causing you to cut back.
Hope this is a better day, though.
Honore
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 6, 2007, at 19:05:55
In reply to Re: Therapist is going to be even more concerned now » OzLand, posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2007, at 12:47:19
Oz,
Sometimes groups of women behave in anti-social ways. I don't know exactly what happened here, but you're being treated unfairly and unkindly.Do you think that maybe that the women are ashamed of their behavior but would rather make you the scapegoat?
Also, is it possible that you've forced them to take sides, even though that wasn't your intent?
women...
-Ll
Posted by Poet on August 6, 2007, at 19:23:32
In reply to Therapist is going to be even more concerned now, posted by OzLand on August 5, 2007, at 22:29:33
Hi Ozland,
Keep treading the water and accept any life preservers your T and we can throw your way.
I am not a very sociable person and I have a few close friends who I can talk to, but I never open up about certain things to any of them.
I'm sorry your alleged friends have hurt you so badly. Talking about CSA is hard, but hopefully your therapist will be completely supportive. Mine is and someday I'll bring the subject up again, but not yet.
Good luck. Keep posting. You have online friends.
Poet
Posted by OzLand on August 7, 2007, at 7:27:57
In reply to Therapist is going to be even more concerned now, posted by OzLand on August 5, 2007, at 22:29:33
Will write more tonight. I need to get to work and then I am supposed to go to the democratic debate tonight, but it is pouring rain, thunder, lightening, and it is at Soldier Field, and we have seats on the field. UGH. So I may respond sooner rather than later. I still have friends. One called last night and wanted me to go to the women's group. Nerves too raw. She and I will get together later this week. I have a couple of other friends, but the one who I thought was a "good" friend can't be there for me. I was warned by others. Oh well. Otherwise, yes there are some friends (not close friends) who are very intimidated by the "hostile" lady who has decided to join our women's group. When I am stronger, I will go back. I won't let her intimidate me. All for now and off to work. Thanks everyone.
OzLand
Posted by OzLand on August 7, 2007, at 23:27:35
In reply to Re: Therapist is going to be even more concerned now, posted by OzLand on August 7, 2007, at 7:27:57
Thanks everyone; I don't know if there is more to say. The hostile lady tends to intimidate lots of people. This is why I hate to just walk away. The one person who I thought was a good friend just got back from a two month dig in Belize, and we used to email each other every night. She has had some horrible experiences with bugs and may have chagus disease. She was afraid too that she got bit by the bot fly. Anyway, I was doing my best to be supportive, etc. So when the chips were down for me, I guess I thought she would be there for me. She wrote me that she can't be there for me emotionally. She can only give opinions. So, I said I didn't see how that really made us friends, a one sided thing. So just like that I guess our friendship ends. My husband knows her and said he thinks she is truely narcissistic and wrapped up in herself and can only have superficial relationships with others. I am afraid he is correct.
So a couple of other friends, though, are asking me to go to a Native American ceremony in a few weeks, and I intend to go--at Indiana Dunes. Should be interesting--had some Native American friends in Kansas and love the philosophy. I have to bring two dishes to share, one that is a favorite of mine and one that is a favorite of my ancestors. Neat. Plus I have to bring a shawl for the dancing.
See therapist tomorrow, and I need to print out my journaling so I can read for the past week while I am on the train. It helps to refresh my memory. Guess the ol memory is not completely there yet. Job situation is either in hiatus or over. I may never be told. I am still looking for another job, but I won't take just anything. So, Llurpsie I know how you feel. On the otherhand, don't let thinking you will disappoint professors get in the way of doing something. I worried about that when I left training and then working at Menninger's. I thought they would think I did not go somewhere up to their caliber. Funny thing. People I know there are facinated with what I am doing. You just never know.
I know there was some stuff I wrote here that seemed to be things I should bring to therapy, but now I don't remember. I will have to go back and look at posts. Night everyone.
Oz
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 8, 2007, at 6:46:57
In reply to Re: Therapist is going to be even more concerned now, posted by OzLand on August 7, 2007, at 23:27:35
Oz- a couple of good things here
first, you recognize that the power dynamic in your circle of friends revolves around a single very strong personality. This is a good realization because it helps to keep your self-esteem intact.The fact that you have good friends, and seem to make them easily is very heartening.
I'm so sorry to hear about your central-american friend. It sounds like she's got too much going on and is trying to protect herself from getting too wrapped up in another's problems. Maybe you can remain casual friends until her health worries blow over. I wouldn't dismiss her just yet.
A lot of times we have expectations that if we treat people just so, then they will treat us the same way in return. This is usually disappointing. Better to accept the fact that each person and friendship is unique and changes over time. An intense friendship may fizzle for reasons beyond your control. A circle of friends may be disrupted by a rogue. The most important thing is to learn from these and use the things you learn to strengthen the positive relationships you already have.
It sounds like your husband is becoming more in-tune with what's going on. Baby steps here. You probably scared him a lot and he reacted by trying to get some emotional distance from you. He was scared of you dying. That's because he cares. It may take some time before you can fully immerse yourself in your marriage, but don't give up hope.
True, some people are so completely wrapped up in their own lives to give a fig about another. These are the toxic ones. These are the ones that adult survivors of abuse will need to recognize and avoid. Fortunately lessons learned over time will build up. It sounds like you've done a lot of work in making social contacts over the past year.
I'm sorry that you're feeling exposed, that you revealed your mental illness to folks who weren't prepared to be there for you. I did that too. People withdraw. It's easier than confronting the truth that the world is not a perfect place. But sometimes those same friends find themselves in a place of enlightenment and wish to rekindle a supportive relationship. Don't close off your heart to that possibility.
My best friend the last year in grad school heard all about my struggles with abuse issues, medication and therapy. For a while she was genuinely interested and concerned, but then as she started revealing more about herself she started withdrawing. I think she felt too exposed. Boy it hurt though. I still send her an email now and then to check up on her and find out what she's doing, but even by the time I was finishing up she was more happy doing light socializing with a new group, and rarely gave me the time of day. Too painful to confront the victim.
You ever read Judith Hermer's work "trauma and recovery" I bet you have, at least at some point. it's a classic. It helped me understand a lot of what was going on in my life. Maybe I can share it with you.
take care, and you know that there is a group of core babblers who have been following your story and supporting you along the way (where possible)
your friend,
-Ll
Posted by OzLand on August 8, 2007, at 20:00:59
In reply to Re: Therapist is going to be even more concerned n » OzLand, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 8, 2007, at 6:46:57
Yes I know about Judith Herman; when I was doing my postdoc at Menninger's and worked on the Trauma Recovery Unit (isn't that a crock!) she came to do Grand Rounds and consult re one of the patient's on the unit. I think she had just published 'Trauma and Recovery." Yes, I have the book.
I met with my therapist today, and he was of the opinion that going to this congregation that is fairly close knit, small (65 peopld) and trying to facilitate change when maybe they don't want it, is not wise. My husband was like a bull in a china shop, and he got zinked. I took things more slowly, even got on the Board, etc, and now I am getting zinged. My therapist thinks they probably want to keep things as they are and that we would be happier elsewhere. I think he is right. The group we were involved with likes to "talk," and I am used to UU's who put talk into action, i.e., live the seven principles.
So, I revealed some stuff today about csa as well, and then as has happend for the past month, I noted we ended 4 or 5 minutes early. Actually we started late and ended on time. I am his first patient of the day, and so I had not noticed anything until about a month ago when he was five minutes late getting me. He gets there at least a half hour before my appointment. Whether it was like this in May and June too, I don't know because I wasn't paying attention. After the time in July, I started to see if this was a fluke or not. It has been every session. Today it was 4 minutes late starting. So, when I got to work I sent him an email about it and said I was sure he was not aware that he was shorting me each time, but I said both he and I know this is not so simple as not being aware. He sent me an email back saying "THANK YOU for bringing up both the logistical problem and the associated emotional issues. I was unaware of not ending at 45 minutes, even if starting a bit late, so I will reflect on it and look forward to discussing it with you."
Now I wish I had not said anything because I am afraid he is going to say too that he doesn't want to be around me. Start late and end on time. I said to myself that it seems he really doesn't want to start but has to because I am there, and then he wants out of the session as soon as possible. I wrote him back and said I am afraid to discuss it with him as I am afraid of what he is going to say. I am afraid he will say I need to find someone else as my stuff is just too awful or complex or something. Maybe he is too buy and doesn't need to see me too. I have felt like I am getting the scraps and did not tell him that. One of the days we meet is Friday, and he is gone at least one to two Fridays per month. Sounds not good I think.
OzLand
Posted by Dinah on August 8, 2007, at 20:06:38
In reply to Re: Maybe therapist wants distance from me too » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by OzLand on August 8, 2007, at 20:00:59
My therapist used to catch up time on me all the time until I brought it up to him. I'm glad I did.
He still does it sometimes. Not infrequently even. Sometimes I let him, if it's a natural breaking point. Other times I cross my arms and keep talking, and he knows I'm really not in the mood for him to do that.
I don't think it's personal, really. Except maybe that he knows he can get away with it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to have brought it up, and I doubt he'll say anything hurtful about it.
Posted by OzLand on August 9, 2007, at 19:59:32
In reply to Re: Maybe therapist wants distance from me too » OzLand, posted by Dinah on August 8, 2007, at 20:06:38
Dinah
You are probably right; I just have this irrational fear that he will say either get lost or well I don't really like you, but I don't have to like you to work with you. I have it still in my mind that he early on said he "welcomes" working with me. Tomorrow I want to know what that means from where he sits. He says some things like that and I have no idea what he means.
OzLand
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