![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 4, 2020, at 18:25:44
I think generally there is a good feeling about her.
She does seem to say good things, much of the time.
Things that communicate well with New Zealanders and that encourage and inspire us to be better.
Like asking us to 'be kind'.
That resonates. In a land where frustration / agression can be a problem.
People understand what 'being kind' means. I think.
But I do think that a couple rather major mistakes were made along the way.
I think the Free World was REQUIRED to stand with Hong Kong.
I don't mean send in the troops.
I mean REQUIRED to make a statement about preferring democracy and preferring human rights to be acknowledged and upheld as much as possible.
I think the Free World was REQUIRED to say that it supported increasing Democracy and protesction of those kinds of freedoms.
I think it was hypocritical and wrong of our Prime Minister to publically state support of One China.
When Hong people seem to really really really really really really really really really have a strong preference for two-rule.
That hypocricy...
Undermines the Free World's relationship to China.
That the Free World would just blatantly disregard the freedoms and rights of so very many of the Chinese (Hong Kongean) people.
I don't know anything like the real story of what is up with / going on with Chinese leadership....
But I do in fact wonder how much it is an ideology or an ideal presented (same way as Trump and our Avatar are) to try and inspire and help people to do better. Working towards this global vision of peoples coming together and working towards better and helpful and good and kind constructive output for the good us us all.
This idea or ideal of a big bully who doesn't listen.
Will the Free world stand up for it's own ideology or cower in fear?
Turn a blind eye to the evidence (that has been supplied by agencies such as the UN and WHO) of human rights violations and abuses...
FOr economy. Wehre economy stands for increasing riches and wealths for an increasingly small minority.
What ideology will be embraced by the people?
Seems to me so many many many individuals in the Free world chose dictatorship ideology of China. Chose to support that system.
Chose to shut up.
Chose to not stand (even in the simplest way of signing a form supporting rule of law) with Hong Kong.
And so now....
Many people are burning.
TO be sure.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 4, 2020, at 23:48:20
In reply to NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 4, 2020, at 18:25:44
There he is, standing with Hong Kong.
As he needed to do.
Trump doesn't get to wear a mask.
It's all about context.
KKK stuff is still too recent in the US.
Of course Trump doesn't need to be within 6 feet of anybody, either.
But seems to me the leader of China did the right thing in wearing a mask in public.
Context.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 0:07:01
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 4, 2020, at 23:48:20
Or maybe Trump will get to wear one when the US produces fabric that can filter 95 % air born particles.
Just no pointy hat, for him.
NC State is working on it...
Maybe next year we will get water filtration systems?
It's like the health olympics.
Posted by sigismund on April 5, 2020, at 1:28:54
In reply to NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 4, 2020, at 18:25:44
Free world?
Posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2020, at 1:46:06
In reply to NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 4, 2020, at 18:25:44
> I think generally there is a good feeling about her.
>
> She does seem to say good things, much of the time.
>
> Things that communicate well with New Zealanders and that encourage and inspire us to be better.
>
> Like asking us to 'be kind'.
>
> That resonates. In a land where frustration / agression can be a problem.
>
> People understand what 'being kind' means. I think.
>
> But I do think that a couple rather major mistakes were made along the way.
>
> I think the Free World was REQUIRED to stand with Hong Kong.
>
> I don't mean send in the troops.
>
> I mean REQUIRED to make a statement about preferring democracy and preferring human rights to be acknowledged and upheld as much as possible.
>
> I think the Free World was REQUIRED to say that it supported increasing Democracy and protesction of those kinds of freedoms.
>
> I think it was hypocritical and wrong of our Prime Minister to publically state support of One China.
>
> When Hong people seem to really really really really really really really really really have a strong preference for two-rule.
>
> That hypocricy...
>
> Undermines the Free World's relationship to China.
>
> That the Free World would just blatantly disregard the freedoms and rights of so very many of the Chinese (Hong Kongean) people.
>
> I don't know anything like the real story of what is up with / going on with Chinese leadership....
>
> But I do in fact wonder how much it is an ideology or an ideal presented (same way as Trump and our Avatar are) to try and inspire and help people to do better. Working towards this global vision of peoples coming together and working towards better and helpful and good and kind constructive output for the good us us all.
>
> This idea or ideal of a big bully who doesn't listen.
>
> Will the Free world stand up for it's own ideology or cower in fear?
>
> Turn a blind eye to the evidence (that has been supplied by agencies such as the UN and WHO) of human rights violations and abuses...
>
> FOr economy. Wehre economy stands for increasing riches and wealths for an increasingly small minority.
>
> What ideology will be embraced by the people?
>
> Seems to me so many many many individuals in the Free world chose dictatorship ideology of China. Chose to support that system.
>
> Chose to shut up.
>
> Chose to not stand (even in the simplest way of signing a form supporting rule of law) with Hong Kong.
>
> And so now....
>
> Many people are burning.
>
> TO be sure.
Even before covid, there's a lot of fear afoot. Shocking how quickly that last bit of hutzpah evaporated. I don't know about Jacinda, and I'm sad to hear she hadn't made a
statement. Our guy just egged winnie the pooh on :(
Posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2020, at 1:48:01
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister » alexandra_k, posted by sigismund on April 5, 2020, at 1:28:54
> Free world?
If only there was an egg boy for Xi. But he'd have his organs harvested and shot, and I'd rather him grow up.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 3:01:43
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2020, at 1:48:01
And then you need to fit-test it.
It's hot.
And it becomes humidified. Your airways... I don't remember what... What percentage of humidity they are. Your body is designed to humidify the air inside the lungs. With a fit tested mask you will get condensation inside mask. Water. It's disgusting to start with -- but you get used to it, I guess. Water. Dripping off your nose and running down your face and falling into your mouth when you open it. Dripping off your chin.
So very tempting to make an air vent for the humidity to escape. So very very very much more comfortable. Less hot. Etc.
I don't know how many people are fit-test wearing the masks they've got.
I have been thinking about so many things...
Dyes.
We were starting to think about it. The human worker cost. The people working in production of things like that. Dyes. To dye the fabric. To make the clothes. The exposure that workers have to these toxic chemicals. The protective equipment that has been developed.
The true cost of our inks and dyes.
The manufacturing that goes into filtration.
It isn't fair that the Free World has had 'two-rules' -- one for its own people and another for the Chinese people. Requiring higher test scores for admissions. Etc etc etc.
The mass production of rubbish product that was toxic to workers and so on...
Well, I guess now we've been reminded of the high quality and essential products that we have been relying on China to produce.
3M did an amazing job of marketing. But the magic in the manufacturing was... NOt properly appreciated.
And that's not fair.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 3:11:38
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 3:01:43
I guess the idea is to retain the... Humanity.
I mean, there are gas mask types of facial coverings, already.
I have a motorcycle helmet. Surely you could put the right kind of material over the vents?
You could have someone in a scuba kind of a set-up. Breathing into a snorkel.
__________
But we want to be able to see the person's face. To be able to re-identify them.
You don't want... At your most vulnerable moment... To wake up temporarily... And be confronted by aliens or machines. People in hoods. People wearing masks.
You want to see who is there.
And feel comforted. And not afraid.
__________________
So... Minimalist. With maximal filtration. That is bearable.
__________________
It is a re-orienting back to the basics.
_________________I didn't mean to disparage NZ attempts to contribute to the production of filtration systems.
I was just... I don't know what word is appropriate... Salty? About our more recent foray into the world of surgical mesh.
Our Universities are starting to make hand sanitiser. Looks like some of our international students might be able to make some of that for us. Yay them.
It would be nice to not feel like we are on hand sanitiser rations. To not be able to rub it into the skin for 20 seconds when you walk into the supermarket because they didn't give you enough to wet your skin properly. If you have a routine you can rub the back of your hands... Your thumb... YOur fingers... Then there isn't any left for your palms and your wrists...
_________________
Posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2020, at 3:33:33
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 3:01:43
> The true cost of our inks and dyes.
>
> The manufacturing that goes into filtration.
>
>There are a few n95 around our house because I work with dye, and also, for wildfires :(
But like you say, once moist, they don't work. Do you know if drying them in sunshine helps, or is the electrostatic property shot?
I wonder what we here will face when that kicks in later in our summer.
Posted by sigismund on April 5, 2020, at 4:55:12
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2020, at 1:48:01
Well, I wouldn't like his chances.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 21:35:55
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2020, at 3:33:33
> But like you say, once moist, they don't work. Do you know if drying them in sunshine helps, or is the electrostatic property shot?
I don't know if they don't work once they are moist or if they are just umpleasant to wear. I don't know how often you were supposed to change them. Were you supposed to change them every 4 hours once they did get wet? I don't know. I've never used one.
I just had one I brought from a pharmacy that isn't rated as anything at all... I don't know the quality of the fabric or whatever. It doesn't form a perfect seal -- but it actually does sit pretty tight. And it is hard to breathe through. So I think it is actually a pretty good quality mask, actually. It gets very wet inside very quickly. I imagine it would get wetter inside even more quickly if it formed a perfect seal the way the N95 masks are supposed to.
Duke is doing experiments on how to steralise them / re-use them.
Seems that the filtration surface fabric is delicate and it actually does deteriorate / disintegrate if you aren't careful with it.
I have seen a few places (seemingly most reputable) saying to dry them out in the sun-shine (UV light) if you need to re-use them.
I don't think anybody thinks it is ideal to re-use them becuase the filtration surface is fragile. But if you have to it seems less mechanically stressful on the fabric than rubbing them with sanitisers etc.
But then I guess there would be worries with bacteria from the individual who was wearing them on the inside surface. I wouldn't want to store a re-used mask with my co-workers where the inside surface and outside surface were all hanging out together en masse. I'd rather my own mask hang out on my own washing line at home.
They do reckon that often sunshine is the best disinfectant. But there often isn't much sunshine in the wintertime.
I don't know.
I see 3M has been directed to supply the US instead of looking to make money off of exports.
That makes sense. Especially since the 3M production bottle-neck seems to be import of the fabric from China.
Worries about quality control issues, now, I think.
I heard there was a shipment that was sent back from someplace in Europe) because they couldn't get a seal.
I don't know that anybody was doing the fit-tests that they were supposed to do before, though...
I suppose this is a better use to put medicine than figuring how to beat the drug tests for the Olympics or how to sell increasingly sophisticated electronic stethescopes to rich people off-shore...
A re-focus on what's important.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 21:58:16
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 21:35:55
> Surgical masks are composed of three to four layers including spun-bond or meltblown polypropylene (the filter layer), a high-density non-woven layer of polypropylene cellulose/polyester, and layer(s) of melt-blown polypropylene filter material toward the face side.
I don't suppose the masks are made with a medium that supports or sustains bacterial or viral growth. I mean, viruses need to replicate inside human cells. Bacteria need food to grow... Could they grow on debris that has been shed from the mask wearer??
I don't know.
I think there were some studies showing the Coronavirus could survive on hard surfaces for up to a couple days. But I don't know if that was because the droplet was still there (the surface was still wet) or if drying it out kills it.
I don't know.
I guess the trouble with chemical disinfectants or harsh steralising techniques is that they might hasten the disintegration of the fabric. Or potentially put toxins into the mask there the toxins can't escape from the mask.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 22:16:21
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 21:58:16
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6403903/
the electro-static properties seem to be about adsorption - so things stick or cling to the mask instead of passing through it.
But the electro-static properties of the mask seem to be about the electro-static forces that were supplied or used in the production of the mask in the first place.
I am not sure that I understand...
What does your mask say about how often you are supposed to change it? Does it say to use a new mask after 4 hours or 6 hours or what?
I have heard something about changing them once they are wet... But the mask I brought from downstairs is wet after around 30 minutes of wear, I would say. Though I suppose the mask I brought is not a cup shaped mask held away from my face. It is a duck-billed one that is not rididly held away from my face and so it tends to suction around my face a bit and get wet from that / get wet in that way.
I do'nt know.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 22:25:42
In reply to Re: NZ prime minister, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 22:16:21
https://consteril.com/covid-19-pandemic-disinfection-and-sterilization-of-face-masks-for-viruses/
UVC light, apparently.
I don't know why UVC rather than other kinds of UV light.
Sun-shine is of course too hard to quantify.
And tanning salon lamps were mostly banned because of their role in skin cancer.
And depression lamps?
I don't know.
I see people want to get rich from this / have shares take off.
Sigh.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 23:21:27
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 22:25:42
science communications. foreign help. finally.
Posted by beckett2 on April 7, 2020, at 19:33:49
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 5, 2020, at 23:21:27
Apparently NZ is doing a good job slowing covid. I heard that good news today.
Regarding n95, the instructions online say no longer than 8 hours, and of course not to reuse. I think it is due to a temporary electrostatic charge. You know the masks are stored sealed, but in the US, at least in CA, many of the supplies had been allowed to expire. So that charge must decay over time regardless.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:10:34
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by beckett2 on April 7, 2020, at 19:33:49
I don't know what the 'electrostatic charge' is about.
I thought it was to do with adsorption.
So, water clings together. Forms a drop. From electrostatic charge.
Then the drop clings to the fabric by adsorption. It adheres.
If it adheres by adsorption then it would dry off.
Once it was dry then it could adsorb water again.
If it became covered in the water it adsorbed then no new water could adsorb to it. They do say something about replacing it with a new once once it has become wet.
Maybe because once it has become wet the water starts to absorb into the fabric. Squash it's way through it. That could draw virus particles through the fabric with it. Which would mean it wouldn't be protecting against 95 per cent of airborne particles anymore.
I think that's the idea...
I read something about the technology that was going into making the fabric. Basically. Nozzles squirting plastic into very very fine fibers that are laid down in a haphazard kind of a way. They wre experimenting with using electrical fields as part of the manufacturing. I don't understand what that means, or how. I think plastics are hydrocarbens which wouldn't align with electrostatic charge so I don't follow...
But they said that by using an electrostatic force or field they were getting finer strands of it which was resulting in higher or increased amounts of particles able to be filtered out when air passed through the material.
I don't understand this.
But it seemed the finer fibers had better filtration properties. But teh finer fibers were fragile and readily broken down. So if you then scrub at the mask with detergent you will likely disrupt the protective surface.
Even UVC treatments seemed to degrade the filtering properties.
I don't know how much gently air-drying them in the ordinary sun-shine until they are dry would disrupt the electrostatic properties... I can only think the electrostatic properties have to do with adsorption of water molecules.
So you would want to dry the masks thoroughly before re-use.
So maybe have a few and give them a few days to dry out or something. To make sure they are properly dry.
I honestly don't know.
Unless people do well-controlled experiments on great numbers of them then we don't really know.
It is important work to be done. Because while these masks do seem to be very very very effective -- they will likely accumulate in biohazard piles to the sky if we don't figure how to more responsibly produce / re-use / conserve them.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:16:53
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:10:34
I am probably wrong about the water stuff. Sigh.
I think it is hydrostatics that makes the h20s cling together. So water has a surface at earth temperatures.
and adsorption... is water's tendancy to form droplets on a surface, I thought. So, droplets on a leaf. Droplets clinging to your window in the morning. Droplets clinging on the inside of a face mask.
But then the condensation gets to be too much and water rivets down the window pane. Starts to accumulate into a pool on the window sill.
It can sit on the paint for only so long.
Eventually it leeches into the wood and rots your window-sill.
Without... A dehumidifier to suck the water back up.
Dehumidifier.
Maybe that without the UV?
Don't know.
Don't know what happens to the water-borne Corona-Virus when it looses it's water droplet. If it dies or if it can wait for re-humidification.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:20:53
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:16:53
Not that the virus was alive in the first place. It's a lipid membrane bound virus that is transmitted in water droplets. I guess it might hang around in it's lipid membrane just fine once the water has evaporated off.
In which case the viral load outside the mask (protecting me) and inside the mask (protecting you) might increase really rather an awful lot even with drying them out.
I would be surprised if they haven't studied this, already. Would be easy enough to check viral load inside masks of people with the virus, I would have thought. To see what between-use treatments are most effective.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 23:50:24
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:20:53
We are 2 weeks into a nation-wide 4 week 'level 4' lockdown.
A county of 4 million. A city of around one a a half-million then a lot of 'small towns we like to call citys' of 400,000 (Christchurch), 200,000 (Wellington), 165,000 (Hamilton)...
Around 1,000 cases. A couple clusters. An Auckland school. A wedding in Bluff. A residential home in Christchurch. Most cases are people coming in but some cases of community transmission...
It does seem to be being contained.
But if the schools were to open up, I don't think it would remain that way. Our classrooms are very over-crowded and our kids aren't taught to wash their hands / cough into their elbow / maintain social distancing.
We are in the Autum / Fall. Our flu season hasn't arrived, as yet. Heaters haven't needed to be turned on, yet. We usually get first frosts at Easter Weekend (Hamilton, anyway).
Our MInister of Health is mostly done.
Our... Manger General of Health is playing a much more promanent role. Ashley Bloomfield.
Went to Medical School married a doctor has a tertiary aged kid. Around that age when his kid likely wants to go to Medical School... Seems to be about when people come to the political fore in the Health Sector.
He keeps saying that we have enough x and y and z.
Then doctors say 'but we only have 4 of those and 5 of these and that isn't enough'.
So then the issue is 'where are all the supplies? Who is stockpiling all the supplies?' and the various hoardings that there are in our supply chain.
There are discrepancies between what is technically available (e.g., the number of flu vaccines that we have) and the number that are actually administered (they keep track of each dose administered) and... Most of them are just kept hoarded by some clinics while some other clinics are forced to go without.
And then other supplies, too.
We are having trouble getting gowns, now, because gown producers have turned to production of masks, instead. So we are having gown shortage problems.
Hand sanitiser shortage problems.
It's... Unenviable. Being there for the discovery of all this. In an election year.
But it seems to be being worked through. Which is progress.
GPs are saying that moving to online consultations has resulted in about 10 years of progres to GP services in only a couple weeks. It was the catalyst for change.
However you feel about abortion... Our rates are very high... Our rates of youth / teen pregnancy is very high. Our rates of domestic violence and sexual abuse are very high. OUr rates of incest is very high. YOU need to udnerstand abortion rates in that context. Not so much as adults choosing to have abortions instead of using birth control. Teenagers and tweens and even 9 year old girls... Can get pills now. Apparently it isn't supposed to be as safe as having suction. But so very very very very very much less invasive (psychologically at least). I think that is good progress for NZ. IN conjunction with other things.
I don't know how it's working in practice... But they seem to be saying 'your bubble (household you are in lockdown with) is supposed to be safe. Let us know if you need a new bubble'. So partners of domestic violence may have this opportunity to leave (go into hotel accommodation when tourism isn't happening) and of course they can't be pursued. Not right now.
The schools were at breaking point with overcrowding. Literally at breaking point. They had not enough classrooms. Literally couldn't pack any more of them in. Unheated spaces. Not developed world conditions.
Things are... BEtter now. In so very very many ways.
I don't know how our education system will turn out.
I see England is not going to externally examine their school leavers this year.
It's potential for the kids of the elite to be given everything that was their birth-right since there is no objective indepenent blind grading or examination by people who don't know whose kid it is and who doesn't know how long the kid has been laboring.
Posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 0:38:29
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:10:34
There me be an answer soon:
The Guy Who Helped Invent the N95 Mask Thinks Hes Found a Way to Clean and Reuse Them
We should get the results in one or two days.
By Daniel Newhauser
Apr 1 2020, 12:33pmShareTweetSnapWant the best of VICE News straight to your inbox? Sign up here.
Hospitals are scrambling to sterilize and reuse N95 masks, deploying high-tech methods like ultraviolet light and concentrated hydrogen peroxide. But the father of the modern N95 mask thinks a much simpler technique could work: heating them.
Peter Tsai is a material scientist credited with inventing technology that makes material used in N95 masks. He told VICE News that hes researching whether blasting the masks at intense temperatures for short periods would kill the virus without degrading the mask. He hopes to publish the results of his research within days.
We are going to use heat, [158 degrees Fahrenheit (70 degrees Celsius)], for 30 minutes, to see if we can kill COVID-19, he said on Tuesday afternoon. We should get the results in one or two days.
Tsai, a recently retired professor at the University of Tennessee, is one of several researchers at companies or institutions looking at heat as a potential low-tech solution for the shortage of masks plaguing hospitals around the country. Desperate to stretch their personal protective equipment for much longer than its intended single use, nurses and doctors told VICE News theyre using alcohol or even Clorox wipes to try to decontaminate their masks a desperate move that could do more harm than good.
Obviously no one wants to spray down their N95s every day and reuse PPE [personal protective equipment], but until we receive government support and safety of healthcare workers becomes a priority, we have no choice, said a resident at Elmhurst Hospital in Queens. The hospitals simply dont have the supplies.
We should get the results in one or two days.
Before the coronavirus pandemic hit the United States, the FDA and the CDC had advised that N95 masks should not be reused. But to cope with the shortage, federal agencies have changed their recommendations. While some hospitals have the means to use UV light or a newly FDA-approved process using vaporized hydrogen peroxide, other medical centers might not. They most likely only have access to an autoclave or a similar device that can heat items while controlling both the temperature and the humidity.
Its well established that high heat kills viruses. For instance, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS, can be killed if exposed to a temperature of 149 degrees Fahrenheit (65 degrees Celsius) for more than 15 minutes, according to 2014 research conducted by Pasteur Institute, a prominent nonprofit research foundation based in Paris.
Masks have also successfully been sterilized of H1N1 using warm, moist heat, according to studies done in the 2010s by Applied Research Associates, a private research and engineering company.
But this coronavirus strain, SARS-CoV-2, is too new to have a fully vetted and peer-reviewed body of research. The Pasteur Institute is researching whether this new coronavirus can be killed with high heat, but the research wont be finished for another several days.
Jean-Claude Manuguerra, a head researcher at the institute, said SARS-CoV-2 might not react to the same levels of heat in the same way. Killing this virus, compared to previous strains, could take more heat or even a longer amount of exposure.
This is very different between viruses, and some viruses shed much more than others, he said. In the case of SARS-CoV-2, the shedding of the virus is much more than for SARS, which is down in the lung, and more also than MERS,
For his research, Tsai is using numbers coming out of China, where the pandemic first broke out.
Right after the outbreak, a lot of virologists did a lot of experiments, and they found 65 degrees Celsius [149 degrees Fahrenheit] for 30 minutes, that will kill COVID-19, Tsai told VICE News.
The trick is finding the perfect temperature that kills the virus while not destroying the mask. Temperatures over 200 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Celsius) would kill any virus but would just about destroy an N95 mask. But Tsai said European certification requires a mask to be able to withstand 158 degrees Fahrenheit (70 degree Celsius) for up to 24 hours.
The masks are also electrostatically charged. That allows them to suck in and trap airborne particles that might contain viruses, rather than allowing those particles to spread or even enter a persons body. Tsai, who invented that process, said the electrostatic charge can be undone if the mask is exposed to super high temperatures, which would make the mask less effective. But at just the right temperature, heating the masks could be a life-saver.
Scott Mechler, a mechanical engineer at the Massachusetts-based Consolidated Sterilizer Systems, said that tracks with research hes conducting. Although his company isnt working with active viruses, he said they have experimented on the temperatures at which face masks begin to break down.
If you get up to about 100 to 120 degrees Celsius (212 to 248 degrees Fahrenheit), you start to see rapid degradation of the masks, he said. We've been focusing on trying not to damage the mask, and we've been using this number of 65 to 80 Celsius (149 to 176 Fahrenheit) for 30 minutes as kind of our gospel trying to achieve that, while not going over.
But Mechler cautioned that the masks can only be reused three to five times if theyre disinfected in this way."
Posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 0:48:10
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:10:34
You're right, I think, about the electrostatic charge. In that what cause a mask to be expired are the parts that create the seal and not the filter material itself (unless stored improperly).
Have you thought of going into some sort of research? You like to 'geek out' as we say here. Get very into investigating something :)
Posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 1:04:10
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 23:50:24
I didn't realize at first you meant 'morning after pills' (as we call them). God, I'd only thought of women and their abusers being locked up :(
Ours is an election year as well. I expect the current orange to be reelected. If he isn't, he'll bring the country down round him if need be. It's a dangerous time here.
There was mention in the news here about how the covid might fare in your flu season. I don't know how much to worry about that.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 12:48:34
In reply to Re: UVC » alexandra_k, posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 0:38:29
That was interesting.
I still don't understand the role of electrostatics in manufacture / effectiveness of the masks. But, then, that's supposed to be the 'and then the miracle occurs' trademark step.
I actually didn't think that the reason for the expiry could have to do with the components making up the seal rather than the filtration material itself.
But that makes sense, yeah. I think the Duke people were saying, also, that after UVC treatments the elastic bands holding it to your head showed signs of disintegration / deterioration.
I wonder if the heat process will control for humidity.
And I wonder if dehumidifying the mask without heating it would be effective.
I have been involved in research, yes. But Universities in NZ prefer not to credit students with the work they do. They attempt to force students to labor in significant excess of what they are supposed to labor while making them revise their work different so they can coax it into what they want to be said...
I wrote an MPhil thesis in 2018 and still waiting on the University delivering the only outcome of examination that is in fact based in the reports of external examiners. 'Just keep workign and pay us more fees' wasn't what the examiners said. The University doesn't get to just make up whatever they want... Only, try telling them that. Or... Shut them down. Yeah, there's that.
I wouldn't mind doing basic science research -- but good projects are few and far between. We prefer to 'brand' our kids so they will never have the opportunity to go away and contribute to something worthwhile. Brand them as immoral (for torturing animals for.. Uh... Fun, I suppose. or for falsifying data or by lying about what one did or what was found). Or brand them as stupid. Or (ideally, I suppose): Both.
The people in the positions of power, here, are mostly there to prevent the people they are in charge of doing any work / accomplishing anything. They have their 'birthright' positions and I'm sure there parents are proud. They never would have made it in a meritocracy. Which is why we are so vehemently opposed to that.
It's pretty f*ck*ng frustrating being side-lined because my only role is supposed to be to cheer at the special olympics situation that we all pretend is just our brand of normal in NZ.
While the significant majority of people 'incapacitated' by 'disability' in this country and the people with consceince, with shame, with capacity. Sidelined precisely because they have capacity and the current stars don't like that over-much.
It's pretty f*ck*ng tiresome seeing other people grubbity grub grub grubbing up all the money, all the power, all the titles, while behaving like 3 year olds and refusing to do their job. I'm constantly expected to be the better person while they starve me and freeze me and...
Wonderful country this, mmm, sure.
It's a trade-sanction thing. Taking the tourists away. Our borders got shut down. Good people got sick and tired of trying to do good business when we're too stupid / corrupt to be worth doing business with, at all. The borders got shut down. That's how come it's being contained, here.
Swap you some milk powder for a face mask?
Around the globe... The leaders needed to curb the flow of migration.
Swamped.
It's amazing what a difference it has made to Auckland city now that people aren't artificially being forced /required to congregate. People aren't being forced into the city to have bums on seats in their job from 9-5 to work 'made-up' jobs like processing applications (because the University Council doesn't just pick which ones they like for which degrees quite independently of the processing situation). People aren't being forced to crowd into buses and trains.
There's so much less rubbish around. SO much less angry traffic. It's calmer. More peaceful. People are getting exercise. Enjoying exercise for their mental health. Not having to have so many f*ck*ng pointless meetings with idiots who only call them so they can crap on and on and on and on and on and prevent anybody else from achieving flow or even a state of sufficient mind-numbness to make the working day bearable (somewhat).
It's cute seeing families bicycle together. The kids seem to be loving spending more time with their parents. Parents are more in touch with wha ttheir kids are learning (or not) in teh schools.
I think that will do us good. Parents seeing what terrific little people their kids are. Wanting more for their kids education than what NZ offers. Choosing to invest different once this is over.
Hopefully parts of it won't ever be over.
We don't want to be here again.
I feel bad... I don't know anyone with Coronavirus. I don't know anyone who has died of it. THe human cost to it is unfathomable. Incomprehensible. I simply can't comprehend what is happening in NY or what happened in Mainland China. I don't mean tot make light of the suffering.
I've been more interested in studying than researching. Much research... Gets to be a bit 'on a needs to know basis'. Scientists can be a bit like Ford Assembly Line workers. Doing a little bit that contributes to the overall thing. I am more a big picture kind of person. Instead of doing research (being a line worker in someone else's lab) I'm more interested in that bigger picture understanding.
I've been studying for the USMLE (United states medical lisencing exam) because... There is a developed curriculum there.
Parts of it feel a bit like arbitrary memorisation... But mostly it does seem to be big picture general principle kinds of stuff.
I need to look up / properly remember stuff about disinfection methods and so on.
It is a weird kind of level of information to be learning because it is supposed to be research based 'our best understanding' kind of a thing... But parts of it seem questionable. I don't know.
Anyway... I am trying to think what heat would kill that dehumidifying would not.
Why?
Not sure.
I suspect whatever technique / method we 'discover' will involve a new piece of engineering.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 13:12:20
In reply to Re: UVC » beckett2, posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 12:48:34
It's been funny (strange not haha) to see where the issues are, in our supply chain.
We have no shortage of testing kits!
(We have a shortage in nasal swabs required to collect samples.
Labs have a shortage of reagents).We have no shortage of flu immunisations!
(The way they have been shipped means some practices are inundated with vaccinations that then get to be hoarded in fridges while some other practices don't have anywhere near enough enough).
Still...
I have never heard NZ looking into the situation, before.
Looking into where all the money goes (that goes into the health system).
Looking into the supply situation.Trump asked them 'do your best to procure things for yourselves' because he wanted to see what they would do. Maybe they could draw on good business relationships etc that he didn't have access to. Let the people innovate. Do their thing. Maybe they would do a considerably better job of it than what he would / could do.
And then figure out a system of taxation on the medical supplies for re-distribution for equity. Because it isn't Iowas fault that it doesn't have a medical school or Montanas fault that it doesn't have a medical school... I guess these places rely on resources being shipped west... Redistributed within the US. Supplied within the US (rather than being shipped out to the wealthy elite overseas)...
I know I am going against the current in liking Trump.
It isn't that I *like* him (though he has grown on me, actually). It is that I *admire* the ideology of him.
Obama was more *likeable*.
But then *look at who Obama had to do business with*. Look at the other leaders he was supposed to do business with on the world stage. Was he able to do good, effective business on the world stage? For the good of people around the globe? I am not sure he was particularly effective. Even though he was very likable.
Trump almost intentionally came across as a buffoon. Someone who foreign leaders couldn't / shouldn't take seriously.
But Trump isn't just building a fence between Mexico and the US...
Migration patterns globally...
You have people who are continually running running running running running. For the promise of a better life. Running to NY even. For the American Dream. I'm not sure how much that was a reality for many many many many many people living in NY. Trying to make it in NY.
I do think it is a shame that people are forced to flee.
I came back to NZ because I wanted to study Medicine. So I could put that to good use / practice and help people. And also help medicine develop. As a field. For 'good'. I couldn't study that overseas. I had to come back to NZ to do it (finances prohibiting). But we are very very very very nepotistic as far as medicine is concerned. And very very very focused on choosing the youngest and widest eyed of the kids that make the kids of the doctors look good and feel supported. And we choose to select kids when they are young so we can put them in positions where they... Feel tehy are required to bribe officials or whatever to get their Degree. Feel they are required to commit atrocities or whatever to get any job practicing medicien at all. Then tehy are controllable, you see. By adminstration. Management. Whatever. Will work for low pay. Will be quiet about terrible working conditions. Will be quiet about lack of supplies. Very corrupt system. Culture of fear. Culture of bullying. Not working for the good of patients, very much, at all.
We don't really have a curriculum. It's not really the kind of thing that can be taught to a class? I don't know. I'm not sure what to say abotu it. The problem is a really really large volume of information that you need to cram inside you with spaced repetition spaced repetition spaced repetition. So then you can form inferences and make connections in real time. To form good working hypotheses... Not as the end to it. But as the start to good investigation...
I'm always struck by the simplicity of the most brillant inventions / experiments.
Anyway... Since my return to NZ I've only experienced a succession of 'stay with us and do whatever it is that we do otherwise we will oppose you with every fibre of our being'.
And I don't think I've actually met any good doctors / surgeons yet. So as they get to know me and might possibly want or advocate for me to join them.
Just masses and masses of people who aren't doctors -- and who don't want me to get to be a doctor, etiher.
Even the Medical Admissions COmmittee people. Who / what are they? For the most part people who don't get to practice medicine. People who get to profiteer from 'teaching' (having slaves for as long as they can get away with it and figuring how to have their favorites forced to stay with them indefinately while only promoting other people like them into positions of relative autonomy and power).
Can't function in that system.
So...
What are ya gonna do?
I guess the world over: Shut it down.
It wasn't like it was doing anything, anyways.
Shut it down.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Politics | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.