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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 1:06:35
In reply to Re: Where's your shame,, posted by beckett2 on January 1, 2020, at 23:59:55
Australian fire people (as opposed to politicians?) have regular contact with their Californian counterparts. The climate has some similarities.
On the subject of back burning, one of these towns had a bushfire go through less than a year ago, 20 houses destroyed? And it looks like happening again
The disconnect between Liberal Party politics and the fires is the worst for me.
I keep thinking, 'This is real!' But you have this this in spades.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 13:47:43
In reply to Culture War, posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 1:06:35
I don't really know -- but I wonder if the reluctance to do back-burning is fear that the fire will get out of control and then people will feel responsible for having set things directly on fire.
I know backburning was a traditional practice... But I think people have gone and built houses and such in all the wrong places.
So...
I guess the insurance companies decide.
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 14:16:34
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 13:47:43
A change in building codes?
In some country places in Victoria people have emergency underground bunkers for the fire to pass over.
When it's almost 50C and the wind is right the fire can leap from hill to hill. Maybe the eucalyptus oil combusts? And, people in the country often have gas canisters.
I'm surprised more have not been killed.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 14:55:11
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 14:16:34
I mean, I thought people were building their houses and schools and so on on land that would traditionally have been in the pathway of the burn-offs.
If you are happy building a disposable house, then sure. If you build a million dollar home in a known pathway of fire and expect insurance pay-outs over and over...
Yeah.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:00:33
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 14:55:11
Insurance pay-outs can be a mechanism whereby the rich get richer and those who are already struggling become worse-off.
I would imagine land is typically cheaper where there is a known fire risk.
I remember being horrified learning of fires in Melbourne and hearing how many people had to evict their homes.
But I remember then learning that they routinely need to evict their homes for a portion of the year every year.
They knew when they purchased their house that was was likely so, that things would likely become worse through time (global warming), and they chose to buy / build there, anyway.
I would imagine that that is playing with fire (literally).
I can only suppose it must be, on some level, about insurance pay-outs.
I Christchurch after the earthquakes / bombings some people got to early retire into newly built mansions in pretty locations about the South Island. It was a boost to the architecturally designed building industry.
I guess these people got pay-outs and they got their pay-outs first.
Some other people struggled for years to get theirs. If they got them ever at all.
It's a mechanism for redistributing wealth. Insurance.
Rather like healthcare.
And Universities.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:01:39
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:00:33
I should say I know this isn't always the case. Sometimes it is familial homes and the fires are encroaching as they never used to do because of global warming.
I just remember the new builds in Melbourne and wondering why anyone would choose to build there given what they knew about the situation going in.
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 18:45:03
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 14:55:11
At Tathra half the town was burned down less than a year ago, and i very much looked as if the fire was coming back.
I saw a video of what looked like snow. It was explained that for it to look like that 1000C were needed. I suppose there is always more to burn. The mycelia under the ground?
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 18:52:09
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:01:39
Marysville seemed unsurprising in photos. Rows of hill covered trees, the town down a bit, no trees around the town. How far from the top of one ridge to the next? I'd like to know. 10km?
In the fire 10 years ago the heat was such that soon after one ridge lit up the next one did too. I wonder if the eucalyptus oil in the air ignites? And then there are the gas canisters. The entire town burned down
Posted by beckett2 on January 2, 2020, at 19:57:04
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 18:52:09
> Marysville seemed unsurprising in photos. Rows of hill covered trees, the town down a bit, no trees around the town. How far from the top of one ridge to the next? I'd like to know. 10km?
>
> In the fire 10 years ago the heat was such that soon after one ridge lit up the next one did too. I wonder if the eucalyptus oil in the air ignites? And then there are the gas canisters. The entire town burned downYes, something like this. The oil fumes can burn similar to petrol. At least that's my understanding. The trees can explode as well. We have them here, and they are like kindling.
Are people staying for days on the south beaches because they are cut off? Good god.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 20:57:52
In reply to Re: Culture War » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 2, 2020, at 19:57:04
I just saw the Herald today (library was closed yesterday so I hadn't read that one). I didn't realise how extensive these fires were. More extensive than usual. From Bateman's Bay along to Melbourne...
I remember there was a fire in Canberra the year before I went there as a summer scholar. The astronomy observatory was lost. That one was a bit more extensive than usual, too. People were told to clear out only because of the smoke and nobody expected the whole building to go up.
Wow.
I heard it is unclear how much Aborigine used to intentionally manage fires vs how much they occured naturally from storms and lightening strikes and the like. I imagine the Aborigine got pretty used to avoiding them / knowing where to clear out or they wouldn't have lasted as long as they did.
Yeah, koalas can't move fast because it is so metabolically costly to metabolise eucalyptus leaves that are so very dry.
Poor koalas.
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 21:55:09
In reply to Re: Culture War » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 2, 2020, at 19:57:04
A big navy boat which can lift off a thousand has been sent.
Posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 1:09:55
In reply to Re: Where's your shame, » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 1, 2020, at 23:39:07
>What are you referencing?
The fires in Victoria and New South Wales, and associated weather events. Currently the burned area is said to be the size of Denmark plus the Netherlands. I'm just ad libbing. I did have this good book in mind.
"The Biggest Estate on Earth" Bill Gammadge. (Not linked at Amazon. The most important book about Australia I have read.) Everything really.
Posted by beckett2 on January 3, 2020, at 15:43:30
In reply to Re: Where's your shame,, posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 1:09:55
The fire tornado that flipped the truck there. I understand what you mean now. There was a massive fire tornado over Redding (I believe) during the Carr Fire in California, the one that killed 90. Like your Black Saturday. Throwing embers miles away.
I read that the US and Canada are sending firefighters. The article also commented the reversal of fire seasons between the hemisphere is convenient. Which I took as dark humor, although it wasn't meant as such.
We're sending thousands of troops to Iran. Throw the military at the problem. Maybe this will not happen. Mr. T has reversed course multiple times. Not what he campaigned on but his followers are pretty adaptable. Thank you W.
Posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 20:29:35
In reply to Re: Where's your shame, » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 3, 2020, at 15:43:30
Nice to see Bette Midler about.
Pity the poor #Australians, their country ablaze, and their rotten @ScottMorrisonMP saying, This is not the time to talk about Climate Change. We have to grow our economy. What an idiot. What good is an economy in an uninhabitable country? Lead, you fuckwit!!
Posted by beckett2 on January 3, 2020, at 20:34:00
In reply to Re: Where's your shame,, posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 20:29:35
I saw that :) gave me a laugh. Need one.
Posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 20:34:52
In reply to Re: Where's your shame, » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 3, 2020, at 20:34:00
Posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 20:37:46
In reply to Even Bernie!, posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 20:34:52
If there were any shame there would be resignation of party and PM for not keeping the nation safe and wasting 10 (or 20) years of invaluable time.
Posted by beckett2 on January 3, 2020, at 20:45:32
In reply to Even Bernie!, posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 20:34:52
This page isn't loading well.
Posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 21:54:22
In reply to Re: Even Bernie! » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 3, 2020, at 20:45:32
The page ends with a Bernie tweet saying that climate is the concern of everyone and that we particularly now need a green new deal.
Everyone's favourite grumpy grandpa.
Posted by sigismund on January 4, 2020, at 21:09:04
In reply to Re: Even Bernie!, posted by sigismund on January 3, 2020, at 21:54:22
Posted by sigismund on January 4, 2020, at 22:30:23
In reply to mene mene tekel upharsin (nm), posted by sigismund on January 4, 2020, at 21:09:04
This might be the biggest shift in opinion since 1972.
Posted by beckett2 on January 4, 2020, at 23:00:25
In reply to Re: mene mene tekel upharsin, posted by sigismund on January 4, 2020, at 22:30:23
> This might be the biggest shift in opinion since 1972.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/04/the-pain-and-terror-of-these-bushfires-cannot-be-held-in-a-single-human-heart
>Your country is the bellwether. Best of luck to you and all of us.
Posted by beckett2 on January 4, 2020, at 23:03:09
In reply to Re: mene mene tekel upharsin, posted by sigismund on January 4, 2020, at 22:30:23
And thank ABC. I watch that channel on youtube. Guardian said Murdoch maligns it and the funding is cut, but bless them for keeping the emergency airwaves broadcasting information and updates.
Posted by sigismund on January 5, 2020, at 12:40:20
In reply to Re: mene mene tekel upharsin » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 4, 2020, at 23:00:25
The Spectacle is losing its touch. The litany of self praise continues but in the wrong key. Why are they getting it so wrong? Listen to the ad in this. It is really something.
Posted by sigismund on January 5, 2020, at 13:00:24
In reply to Re: mene mene tekel upharsin » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 4, 2020, at 23:03:09
They continually attack the ABC, then demand that it be privatised, since it is elitist. Like museums and orchestras and roads, what else is left these days?
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