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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on December 28, 2019, at 5:03:39
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment?, posted by sigismund on December 22, 2019, at 20:44:49
Oh, wow. I heard there were fires, but I didn't realise just how bad / extensive they were.
Posted by sigismund on December 29, 2019, at 0:21:47
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment?, posted by alexandra_k on December 28, 2019, at 5:03:39
Well, yes, and summer's not over yet. I wonder how things will go down south where this is normally worse.
20% of the Blue Mountains area is said to have burned.
I cannot get out of my mind that headline in the Guardian about continental fires. Australia is the place for that, and we have the right government for it.
The day Morrison announced his wretched freedom of religion something or other (I'm not that interested) he couldn't leave the building because the smoke had set off all the fire alarms. Not to be deterred..........
Of course we can't hope for a change of sentiment from these nihilists. And the people have no idea of what's coming. There's a Nick Cave song that ends with 'But we know where you live'.
Posted by beckett2 on December 29, 2019, at 19:07:20
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment?, posted by sigismund on December 29, 2019, at 0:21:47
> Well, yes, and summer's not over yet. I wonder how things will go down south where this is normally worse.
>
> 20% of the Blue Mountains area is said to have burned.
>
> I cannot get out of my mind that headline in the Guardian about continental fires. Australia is the place for that, and we have the right government for it.
>
> The day Morrison announced his wretched freedom of religion something or other (I'm not that interested) he couldn't leave the building because the smoke had set off all the fire alarms. Not to be deterred..........
>
> Of course we can't hope for a change of sentiment from these nihilists. And the people have no idea of what's coming. There's a Nick Cave song that ends with 'But we know where you live'.Wow that animation.
What headline? The news from Victoria is not good.
Posted by sigismund on December 29, 2019, at 21:22:47
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment? » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on December 29, 2019, at 19:07:20
The headline?
I just saw it in bold print but I didn't click on it. Now I find it imaginable. Several years without rain, especially in areas with a lot of vegetation would do it.
I guess you are thinking of Gippsland. Everyone in an area half the size of Belgium to leave. They'd be being careful after those terrible fires from a decade ago that wiped out (I think) St Mary's and some other town.
Meanwhile Australia at COP25 in Madrid! People who kew about the fires couldn't believe it.
There will be change for sure, but ..........
Posted by beckett2 on December 30, 2019, at 21:42:42
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment?, posted by sigismund on December 29, 2019, at 21:22:47
I'm frightened for your country. Hope you're ok.
Posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:11:15
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment? » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on December 30, 2019, at 21:42:42
Thank you. We here are OK for now. The fires are way down south.
Did you see that photo of those people on the beach in the Guardian? Everything red. I heard of a wind so strong it blew over a fire truck.
Posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:18:26
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment? » beckett2, posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:11:15
I heard there are 4,000 people on the beach at Mallacouta, just over the Victorian border, under a red red sky.
This is like the plagues in Egypt. 'Let my people go!' 'But God hardened pharaoh's heart'.
Posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:40:08
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment? » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on December 30, 2019, at 21:42:42
I saw this coming, any idiot could.
Kind of like Iraq, school children could anticipate the result.
I don't know what this says about us.
Michael Moore asked us to think of the things we thought Trump was right about. I thought 'He is or appears sometimes truthful'.
It might mean that the voting public is less open to culture wars about so called freedom of religion in the future. The freedom to say 'gay people will burn in hell'. But what if a Muslim says it?
Morrison even knocked back offers of help from the US.
Posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:47:54
In reply to Of course not., posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:40:08
Posted by beckett2 on December 31, 2019, at 0:47:49
In reply to Re: Maybe we can hope for a change of sentiment?, posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:18:26
> I heard there are 4,000 people on the beach at Mallacouta, just over the Victorian border, under a red red sky.
>
> This is like the plagues in Egypt. 'Let my people go!' 'But God hardened pharaoh's heart'.I saw all this and report of the flipped firetruck (and the poor firey) in the Guardian. The people driven to the coast reminded me of Portugal and Spain. We live near the coast although the roads are narrow, snaking two ways.
I need to get supplies in the car before our summer. Cal Fire advised boltcutters and life straws among other items (cash). They've presented in our town. You likely have the same.
Posted by beckett2 on December 31, 2019, at 1:07:40
In reply to Of course not., posted by sigismund on December 30, 2019, at 23:40:08
>
> Michael Moore asked us to think of the things we thought Trump was right about. I thought 'He is or appears sometimes truthful'.>
The working man has been given the shiv. He was right about that; however, he had coaching. The guy knows a mark when he sees it.
> >>
It might mean that the voting public is less open to culture wars about so called freedom of religion in the future. The freedom to say 'gay people will burn in hell'."If I knew you were burning, I'd have baked a cake..."
> >>Morrison even knocked back offers of help from the US.
So. That's why there's no word about US assistance. This is beyond the pale, even for ScoMo. What is his calculus? I only hope he's dumped. Last year firefighters came from California. Your fireys have helped here. Our state studies your bushfires. I'm going to write/call our governor (he must be good for something).
We're chin-deep, but we can still have dignity.
Posted by sigismund on January 1, 2020, at 15:17:49
In reply to Re: Of course not. » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on December 31, 2019, at 1:07:40
I can't give a link to this. I heard that some (cattle, I guess) farmers up north in the west saw that the emus did not lay in March, so they sold all their cattle, except the breeding stock, before the market collapsed.
They were saying that they were going to have to sell even those.
I can give a link to an emu. Always liked them.
Posted by sigismund on January 1, 2020, at 15:32:47
In reply to The emu, posted by sigismund on January 1, 2020, at 15:17:49
you've left us up to our necks in it. (Davis Bowie)
Michael Mann, climate professor at Pennsylvania was taking the time to visit the Blue Mountains. Ground zero. After a look at the reef.
There could be a chain reaction thing, fire in the sky, firestorms, not 'dry sterile thunder without rain', but raining fire and lightning for scores of kilometres. Things we have never seen before. The whole country cannot take refuge on the beach. It feels like God's judgement for colonialism. While some may or may not still blame the greenies, it is aboriginal land practices that had the country looking like a park.
At breakfast I heard that Morrison would soon be off the India to negotiate the terms satisfactory to Adani to use/abuse/ruin the once sacred Great Artesian Basin aquifer to get the biggest coal mine in the world up and running.
This may be untrue, (that it is the biggest). Worst fears become government policy, no need for facts. We were blessed with leaders once.
Posted by beckett2 on January 1, 2020, at 23:39:07
In reply to Where's your shame,, posted by sigismund on January 1, 2020, at 15:32:47
> you've left us up to our necks in it. (Davis Bowie)
>
> Michael Mann, climate professor at Pennsylvania was taking the time to visit the Blue Mountains. Ground zero. After a look at the reef.
>
> There could be a chain reaction thing, fire in the sky, firestorms, not 'dry sterile thunder without rain', but raining fire and lightning for scores of kilometres. Things we have never seen before. The whole country cannot take refuge on the beach. It feels like God's judgement for colonialism. While some may or may not still blame the greenies, it is aboriginal land practices that had the country looking like a park.
>
> At breakfast I heard that Morrison would soon be off the India to negotiate the terms satisfactory to Adani to use/abuse/ruin the once sacred Great Artesian Basin aquifer to get the biggest coal mine in the world up and running.
>
> This may be untrue, (that it is the biggest). Worst fears become government policy, no need for facts. We were blessed with leaders once.What are you referencing?
I haven't looked at the news today.
Posted by beckett2 on January 1, 2020, at 23:59:55
In reply to Where's your shame,, posted by sigismund on January 1, 2020, at 15:32:47
but not about a larger weather system being triggered (if I understand correctly).
I hadn't heard of Michael Mann before.
CalFire instructed us to gather certain supplies to have on hand and in the cars, but I'm procrastinating :(
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 1:06:35
In reply to Re: Where's your shame,, posted by beckett2 on January 1, 2020, at 23:59:55
Australian fire people (as opposed to politicians?) have regular contact with their Californian counterparts. The climate has some similarities.
On the subject of back burning, one of these towns had a bushfire go through less than a year ago, 20 houses destroyed? And it looks like happening again
The disconnect between Liberal Party politics and the fires is the worst for me.
I keep thinking, 'This is real!' But you have this this in spades.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 13:47:43
In reply to Culture War, posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 1:06:35
I don't really know -- but I wonder if the reluctance to do back-burning is fear that the fire will get out of control and then people will feel responsible for having set things directly on fire.
I know backburning was a traditional practice... But I think people have gone and built houses and such in all the wrong places.
So...
I guess the insurance companies decide.
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 14:16:34
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 13:47:43
A change in building codes?
In some country places in Victoria people have emergency underground bunkers for the fire to pass over.
When it's almost 50C and the wind is right the fire can leap from hill to hill. Maybe the eucalyptus oil combusts? And, people in the country often have gas canisters.
I'm surprised more have not been killed.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 14:55:11
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 14:16:34
I mean, I thought people were building their houses and schools and so on on land that would traditionally have been in the pathway of the burn-offs.
If you are happy building a disposable house, then sure. If you build a million dollar home in a known pathway of fire and expect insurance pay-outs over and over...
Yeah.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:00:33
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 14:55:11
Insurance pay-outs can be a mechanism whereby the rich get richer and those who are already struggling become worse-off.
I would imagine land is typically cheaper where there is a known fire risk.
I remember being horrified learning of fires in Melbourne and hearing how many people had to evict their homes.
But I remember then learning that they routinely need to evict their homes for a portion of the year every year.
They knew when they purchased their house that was was likely so, that things would likely become worse through time (global warming), and they chose to buy / build there, anyway.
I would imagine that that is playing with fire (literally).
I can only suppose it must be, on some level, about insurance pay-outs.
I Christchurch after the earthquakes / bombings some people got to early retire into newly built mansions in pretty locations about the South Island. It was a boost to the architecturally designed building industry.
I guess these people got pay-outs and they got their pay-outs first.
Some other people struggled for years to get theirs. If they got them ever at all.
It's a mechanism for redistributing wealth. Insurance.
Rather like healthcare.
And Universities.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:01:39
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:00:33
I should say I know this isn't always the case. Sometimes it is familial homes and the fires are encroaching as they never used to do because of global warming.
I just remember the new builds in Melbourne and wondering why anyone would choose to build there given what they knew about the situation going in.
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 18:45:03
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 14:55:11
At Tathra half the town was burned down less than a year ago, and i very much looked as if the fire was coming back.
I saw a video of what looked like snow. It was explained that for it to look like that 1000C were needed. I suppose there is always more to burn. The mycelia under the ground?
Posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 18:52:09
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 15:01:39
Marysville seemed unsurprising in photos. Rows of hill covered trees, the town down a bit, no trees around the town. How far from the top of one ridge to the next? I'd like to know. 10km?
In the fire 10 years ago the heat was such that soon after one ridge lit up the next one did too. I wonder if the eucalyptus oil in the air ignites? And then there are the gas canisters. The entire town burned down
Posted by beckett2 on January 2, 2020, at 19:57:04
In reply to Re: Culture War, posted by sigismund on January 2, 2020, at 18:52:09
> Marysville seemed unsurprising in photos. Rows of hill covered trees, the town down a bit, no trees around the town. How far from the top of one ridge to the next? I'd like to know. 10km?
>
> In the fire 10 years ago the heat was such that soon after one ridge lit up the next one did too. I wonder if the eucalyptus oil in the air ignites? And then there are the gas canisters. The entire town burned downYes, something like this. The oil fumes can burn similar to petrol. At least that's my understanding. The trees can explode as well. We have them here, and they are like kindling.
Are people staying for days on the south beaches because they are cut off? Good god.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 2, 2020, at 20:57:52
In reply to Re: Culture War » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on January 2, 2020, at 19:57:04
I just saw the Herald today (library was closed yesterday so I hadn't read that one). I didn't realise how extensive these fires were. More extensive than usual. From Bateman's Bay along to Melbourne...
I remember there was a fire in Canberra the year before I went there as a summer scholar. The astronomy observatory was lost. That one was a bit more extensive than usual, too. People were told to clear out only because of the smoke and nobody expected the whole building to go up.
Wow.
I heard it is unclear how much Aborigine used to intentionally manage fires vs how much they occured naturally from storms and lightening strikes and the like. I imagine the Aborigine got pretty used to avoiding them / knowing where to clear out or they wouldn't have lasted as long as they did.
Yeah, koalas can't move fast because it is so metabolically costly to metabolise eucalyptus leaves that are so very dry.
Poor koalas.
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