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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 1, 2014, at 13:24:03
Social Security disability benefits, food stamps, medicaid, government subsidized housing and other "free" stuff paid for by the taxpayers? Of if you are not on SS disability but are on welfare and welfare cut you off?
What would you do?
NOTE: I am not on any of the above, nor have I ever been on any of the above. I have applied for SS disability twice in my life, but it was years ago when I was truly disabled, BEFORE I found CPAP therapy for sleep apnea. I was denied by SS disability both times and never bothered to appeal.
So Ive never "lived on the dole" before. But I know a lot here do "live on the dole."
The reason I bring it up is because I know a lot of people offline who would very very much like to see that happen. People I associate with outside of this forum, the vast majority of them highly resent the fact that about 50% of the USA works for a living, pays taxes and they see it as they are "supporting" the other 50%.
I actually tend to agree with this idea and claim and understand the anger coming from this group, which is sizeable.
On the other hand, I do realize there are many people who are bona fide disabled and lets face it, they cant work and its either live on the dole or starve and freeze to death in the winter.
But, with obama's "give you lots of free stuff" regime coming to an end in a few more years (thank God, oh praise God on that one), I can foresee the possibility of someone like, Rand Paul getting elected President. I could foresee the GOP taking the U.S. Senate back this Fall 2014.
If those things happen, I could see things like welfare being eliminated in the future and SS disability extremely curtailed to only the very most severe disability cases.
There are millions of Americans right now who are 100% DEPENDENT UPON the federal and state governments to survive. If that dependency was eliminated or curtailed to say, where the only thing available was food stamps, what would you do? What do you think would be the result?
Rioting? Families and churches stepping in to take care of people via private charity?
this is a subject that I find interesting btw. Years later, I am now actually glad I was denied by the SS administration on my disability application. Now if I had never found CPAP, I would not be saying that. I would have to go on SS disability if I had not found CPAP, for sure.
But, long story short. I dont think most people in this country are very understanding of people who are chronically sick. Thats been my experiences over the years. My experiences have told me that the vast majority of Americans are hostile to the idea of letting Americans live on the government dole longterm, for anything other than say, short term unemployment or Social Security after age 65 that a person paid into their entire working life.
Would you leave the USA? What would you do? It would not effect me as I get nothing from the gubmint.
Eric, AKA "LostBoyinNC"
Posted by SLS on March 1, 2014, at 14:23:30
In reply to What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 1, 2014, at 13:24:03
no one but me were to respond to your posts?
- Scott
Posted by Phil on March 10, 2014, at 19:46:46
In reply to What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 1, 2014, at 13:24:03
Posted by Phil on March 10, 2014, at 19:52:19
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your (nm) » LostBoyinNC45, posted by Phil on March 10, 2014, at 19:46:46
where did my post go?
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 11, 2014, at 11:07:49
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your » Phil, posted by Phil on March 10, 2014, at 19:52:19
> where did my post go?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#nm
Bob
Posted by sleepygirl2 on March 14, 2014, at 21:02:51
In reply to What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 1, 2014, at 13:24:03
I've never been on any of that. I've been working since the age of 12. I suppose they'd have to build more homeless shelters, and churches would be taking up major collections for food pantries. Maybe some people would be forced to work, I dunno, maybe some people who shouldn't work.
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 15, 2014, at 13:57:50
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by sleepygirl2 on March 14, 2014, at 21:02:51
I wish the government would cut off ALL welfare entitlements. And that includes all foreign aid as well. Disability? if thats the way God made you, you were destined to die young. Its natural selection, keeping people alive artificially is cruel.
Only the strong, the smart and the healthy should be allowed to survive. If a person is disabled and they can survive homeless, they are still surviving.
Eric
> I've never been on any of that. I've been working since the age of 12. I suppose they'd have to build more homeless shelters, and churches would be taking up major collections for food pantries. Maybe some people would be forced to work, I dunno, maybe some people who shouldn't work.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on March 15, 2014, at 16:39:33
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your » sleepygirl2, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 15, 2014, at 13:57:50
Holy social Darwinism, Batman!!!
"Decrease the surplus population!"
Posted by Phil on March 15, 2014, at 22:12:32
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your » LostBoyinNC45, posted by sleepygirl2 on March 15, 2014, at 16:39:33
I'm 60 and on ssdi. i never saw that in my future. as cocky as some people here seem to be, you have no idea what can happen. none.
as you eat your last tin of cat food, freezing at night, homeless and afraid. you think, how could this happen? i have no help. pat yourself on the back.but they are taking MY money. It's chump change compared to the military taking your money.
jesus weeps
Posted by Phil on March 15, 2014, at 22:27:38
In reply to What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 1, 2014, at 13:24:03
It would not effect me as I get nothing from the gubmint.
__________-----stroke, cancer, heart attack, parkinsons
cs lewis' book, mere Christianity Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man... It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition is gone, pride is gone.
Posted by Beckett on March 16, 2014, at 22:18:27
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your » sleepygirl2, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 15, 2014, at 13:57:50
>Only the strong, the smart and the healthy should be allowed to survive. If a person is disabled and they can survive homeless, they are still surviving.
I have difficulty believing that you believe this.
Why bother to post here?
Posted by alexandra_k on March 20, 2014, at 0:47:31
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your » sleepygirl2, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on March 15, 2014, at 13:57:50
> I wish the government would cut off ALL welfare entitlements. And that includes all foreign aid as well. Disability? if thats the way God made you, you were destined to die young. Its natural selection, keeping people alive artificially is cruel.
People haven't been able to 'go it alone' for hundreds of thousands of years. Not since fire... Agriculture... We have become increasingly dependent on our tools... And on specialist expertise / division of labor. Do you honestly think that very many people in this world could survive alone all Robinson Crusoe (and of course he has social benefits by being taught certain cognitive skills including language and basic mathematics).
Everyone is dependent on their society. Did you build the roads yourself? Do you produce your own electricity? Did you design and manufacture your own computer? Make up the whole World Wide Web all by your lonesome? Of course not.
Consider moths. Some of them are grey and every now and then nature throws up a black one. The environment is such that the grey ones blend into the trunks of the trees they perch upon. They are camouflaged from predation and they tend to do alright. The black ones tend to get eaten, however, because they are easily spotted.
Consider what is best for moths. You might think that the population as a whole would be better off if the 'mutant' or 'dysfunctional' or 'disabled' or 'impaired' black ones were eaten. If they were assisted... By being spray painted grey, for instance (at great cost) then they would only go on to produce others of similar kind... There would be more black ones over time... The population of moths as a whole would be worse off than if it had just let those first few black ones die off. Naturally.
But is this true?
Consider an environmental change. Consider the industrial revolution. Consider the soot being churned out of factories that coats the trees. Now the environment is such that the black moths are appropriately camouflaged and the grey ones aren't doing so well anymore. The species of moth as a whole is best off for: Having preserved diversity. Why? Because diversity protects against environmental shift.
Humans have radically altered our environment in a very short space of time. Think how radically we have altered it since... The birth of agriculture. How many generations has it been? Not enough for much in the way of genetic shift... We have gone from small hunter-gatherer bands (where it is probably easier to detect free-riding from inability)... To the large scale societies that we have today... Where the social benefits are determined by... People who don't have much in the way of first hand knowledge of the actual situation that many of the people are in.
> Only the strong, the smart and the healthy should be allowed to survive. If a person is disabled and they can survive homeless, they are still surviving.I don't know why you think that. And I don't know why you think that those three things would go together, or anything like that. Seems to me that often the strongest really aren't the smartest. Often the smartest really aren't the healthiest. Etc.
Fortunately... The division of labor allows people to specialise. Some specialists aren't appropriately compensated by society yet (e.g., there is still a lot of 'women's work' that is typically unpaid yet crucial - like homemaking and childcare and nursing the elderly / invalid / young / sick). Perhaps you should have just been left to die when you were a helpless infant? Of course not!
We also have this notion of... Flourishing. Happiness.
People have... Compassion. Empathy. Foresight. Apparently. Natural selection doesn't have foresight... You have all kinds of fitness traps... Bullies win in the short term. But society would be undermined (you wouldn't have your roads etc) if co-operation / co-ordination hadn't prevailed...
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2014, at 9:50:59
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by alexandra_k on March 20, 2014, at 0:47:31
Wow, Alex. Nice post.
- Scott
> > I wish the government would cut off ALL welfare entitlements. And that includes all foreign aid as well. Disability? if thats the way God made you, you were destined to die young. Its natural selection, keeping people alive artificially is cruel.
> People haven't been able to 'go it alone' for hundreds of thousands of years. Not since fire... Agriculture... We have become increasingly dependent on our tools... And on specialist expertise / division of labor. Do you honestly think that very many people in this world could survive alone all Robinson Crusoe (and of course he has social benefits by being taught certain cognitive skills including language and basic mathematics).
>
> Everyone is dependent on their society. Did you build the roads yourself? Do you produce your own electricity? Did you design and manufacture your own computer? Make up the whole World Wide Web all by your lonesome? Of course not.
>
> Consider moths. Some of them are grey and every now and then nature throws up a black one. The environment is such that the grey ones blend into the trunks of the trees they perch upon. They are camouflaged from predation and they tend to do alright. The black ones tend to get eaten, however, because they are easily spotted.
>
> Consider what is best for moths. You might think that the population as a whole would be better off if the 'mutant' or 'dysfunctional' or 'disabled' or 'impaired' black ones were eaten. If they were assisted... By being spray painted grey, for instance (at great cost) then they would only go on to produce others of similar kind... There would be more black ones over time... The population of moths as a whole would be worse off than if it had just let those first few black ones die off. Naturally.
>
> But is this true?
>
> Consider an environmental change. Consider the industrial revolution. Consider the soot being churned out of factories that coats the trees. Now the environment is such that the black moths are appropriately camouflaged and the grey ones aren't doing so well anymore. The species of moth as a whole is best off for: Having preserved diversity. Why? Because diversity protects against environmental shift.
>
> Humans have radically altered our environment in a very short space of time. Think how radically we have altered it since... The birth of agriculture. How many generations has it been? Not enough for much in the way of genetic shift... We have gone from small hunter-gatherer bands (where it is probably easier to detect free-riding from inability)... To the large scale societies that we have today... Where the social benefits are determined by... People who don't have much in the way of first hand knowledge of the actual situation that many of the people are in.
>
> > Only the strong, the smart and the healthy should be allowed to survive. If a person is disabled and they can survive homeless, they are still surviving.
>
> I don't know why you think that. And I don't know why you think that those three things would go together, or anything like that. Seems to me that often the strongest really aren't the smartest. Often the smartest really aren't the healthiest. Etc.
>
> Fortunately... The division of labor allows people to specialise. Some specialists aren't appropriately compensated by society yet (e.g., there is still a lot of 'women's work' that is typically unpaid yet crucial - like homemaking and childcare and nursing the elderly / invalid / young / sick). Perhaps you should have just been left to die when you were a helpless infant? Of course not!
>
> We also have this notion of... Flourishing. Happiness.
>
> People have... Compassion. Empathy. Foresight. Apparently. Natural selection doesn't have foresight... You have all kinds of fitness traps... Bullies win in the short term. But society would be undermined (you wouldn't have your roads etc) if co-operation / co-ordination hadn't prevailed...
>
>
Posted by Zyprexa on February 17, 2015, at 0:14:16
In reply to Re: What would you do if the government cut off your, posted by Phil on March 15, 2014, at 22:12:32
> I'm 60 and on ssdi. i never saw that in my future. as cocky as some people here seem to be, you have no idea what can happen. none.
> as you eat your last tin of cat food, freezing at night, homeless and afraid. you think, how could this happen? i have no help. pat yourself on the back.
>
> but they are taking MY money. It's chump change compared to the military taking your money.
>
Ya, why am I paying for your wars?> jesus weeps
This is the end of the thread.
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