![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:35
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2014, at 9:14:20
NAMI claims that most sufferers of serious mental illness do not vote. There are hard statistics on it.
Eric
> In NC we have mail in voting too. I don't feel it has that much to do with this. As many Politicians also deal with all sorts of illnesses including psychiatric. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:35
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 21, 2014, at 23:09:09
If science had all the money in the world to work with, what would they do different towards finding effective treatments for mental illnesses?
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:35
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 22, 2014, at 10:45:49
http://www.nih.gov/science/brain/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRAIN_Initiative
The BRAIN Initiative (Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies, also referred to as the Brain Activity Map Project) is a proposed collaborative research initiative announced by the Obama administration on April 2, 2013, with the goal of mapping the activity of every neuron in the human brain. Based upon the Human Genome Project, the initiative has been projected to cost more than $300 million per year for ten years.
http://www.wiringthebrain.com/2013/09/why-optogenetics-deserves-hype.html?m=1
Posted by poser938 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:36
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 22, 2014, at 10:45:49
Problem is, Drug Company profits often stand in the way of actual "Science".
Posted by Phil on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:36
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by poser938 on February 22, 2014, at 11:38:04
the gov doesn't tell big pharma what to do. i think it was bush jr that said the feds cannot bargain with pharma for better prices. pharma has more lobbyist in washington than any other business. they have tons of money and are also one of the highest profit industries.
i'm on disability and there's a new drug i want to try. it's $800 a month and would throw me into a new medicare bracket called you are f*ck*d. yet other countries can sell that drug at half or less than those in the us. end result...homeless. we are the greatest country in the world? prove it.
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:37
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by poser938 on February 22, 2014, at 11:30:13
Thanks for this.
- Scott
> http://www.nih.gov/science/brain/
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRAIN_Initiative
>
> The BRAIN Initiative (Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies, also referred to as the Brain Activity Map Project) is a proposed collaborative research initiative announced by the Obama administration on April 2, 2013, with the goal of mapping the activity of every neuron in the human brain. Based upon the Human Genome Project, the initiative has been projected to cost more than $300 million per year for ten years.
>
> http://www.wiringthebrain.com/2013/09/why-optogenetics-deserves-hype.html?m=1
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:37
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 22, 2014, at 10:45:49
LOL
Scott, thats the whole entire point. If science had more money allotted to them, science could do a lot more things. Thats what science does...invents stuff.
Eric
> If science had all the money in the world to work with, what would they do different towards finding effective treatments for mental illnesses?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:39
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by poser938 on February 22, 2014, at 11:30:13
Thats good and I already knew about it. But it still is no excuse for the poor voting records of most seriously mental ill individuals. VOTING ON A MASS SCALE IS THE SOLUTION!Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> http://www.nih.gov/science/brain/
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRAIN_Initiative
>
> The BRAIN Initiative (Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies, also referred to as the Brain Activity Map Project) is a proposed collaborative research initiative announced by the Obama administration on April 2, 2013, with the goal of mapping the activity of every neuron in the human brain. Based upon the Human Genome Project, the initiative has been projected to cost more than $300 million per year for ten years.
>
> http://www.wiringthebrain.com/2013/09/why-optogenetics-deserves-hype.html?m=1
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:40
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by poser938 on February 22, 2014, at 11:38:04
LOL
Thats where VOTING comes in! If more severely mentally ill people would vote to begin with, Congressman would begin not wanting to upset mentally ill people as a voting block. (Politicians want to get re-elected, above all else). Congressman who hold the purse strings to basic science research that leads to new medications would create intellectual property laws (IP law is all federal law btw, patents are all done in federal patent court)that catered to who votes the most.
Currently, most mentally ill people dont vote and they go around wondering why things suck so extra bad for them. Its because noboby cares and the reason nobody cares is politically, the mentally ill are NOBODYS!
Eric
> Problem is, Drug Company profits often stand in the way of actual "Science".
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:40
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by Phil on February 22, 2014, at 12:08:49
The government passes all the intellectual property and patent laws that controls the pharmaceutical industry. All patent and IP law is federal law. The U.S. Patent Court is in DC and is a FEDERAL court, not a state court.
The government could have a huge amount of control over the drug companies, IF MORE MENTALLY ILL WOULD GET OFF THEIR DUFFS AND VOTE CONSISTENTLY AND ALSO EMAIL, PHONE AND WRITE THEIR FEDERAL LEGISLATORS WHOM THEY VOTE FOR.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
BTW, I would not listen to a thing bush said, about anything. The guy is a loser.
> the gov doesn't tell big pharma what to do. i think it was bush jr that said the feds cannot bargain with pharma for better prices. pharma has more lobbyist in washington than any other business. they have tons of money and are also one of the highest profit industries.
> i'm on disability and there's a new drug i want to try. it's $800 a month and would throw me into a new medicare bracket called you are f*ck*d. yet other countries can sell that drug at half or less than those in the us. end result...homeless. we are the greatest country in the world? prove it.
Posted by bleauberry on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:41
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 21, 2014, at 23:09:09
Well, in my opinion, most of the answers for treatment resistant psychiatric symptoms are already here. Doctors however have become compartmentalized and fragmented into specialties, which makes it difficult to see the big picture of what could really be going on with the patient's body. They generally look at parts, not the whole.
Many doctor visits are 15 minutes. There is no possible way to treat a patient effectively and passionately in 15 minutes. There is not even enough time to ask all the important questions, not to mention the time for the patient's response. Tests that could be readily ordered to rule in/out this or that, are not done, except maybe for basic panel, thyroid, maybe a couple others. And even if any of those tests show problems, then the mistakes are then confounded further by treating just that problem, with little thought as to where that problem came from or what is causing it. So it goes, one symptom after another.
In my experience, the vast majority of psychiatric symptoms do not originate in the brain. The brain is just the place that feels the impact.
MDs who work with patients in the areas of chronic infections such as lyme disease and heavy metals pretty much already have the answers to our TRD. I say that only because I have been involved in witnessing the transformation of lives, including my own, when tools from outside the psychiatric toolbox were employed. It really isn't hard to get a clue as to what is really going on, if the right questions are asked. But for the most part, the way our system is set up, really isn't very user friendly for either the MD or the patient.
So I guess I am saying that while I wish there was some magic pill anyone could take, I don't think that is a realistic outcome anytime soon. In the meantime, the problem isn't our meds. The problem is we are not diagnosing the real issues causing the TRD. With the limitations obamacare imposes on patients, such as the very high deductibles as one example, and the short doctor visits, or for cash paying patients, I do not see how this problem can improve. ?
Root cause is likely in this circle: Inflammation, toxin accumulation, infection, whichever one was first, resulting in multisystemic issues, psychiatric being common. The mood center in the brain is under massive assault from any of the above, and the psych meds really don't have mechanisms that do much to suppress or stop those assaults. They only serve to fix up what ever was damaged, while the damage continues anyway.
I dunno. Maybe I'm just weird.
Posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:41
In reply to THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 21, 2014, at 23:09:09
> Get out and start voting. The midterms are coming up this Fall 2014.
>
> Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"For whom should you vote? Tea-party, pro-NRA candidates who want to cut taxes and defund government, including basic science research? Or liberal, anti-NRA candidates who want to raise taxes and increase government spending on care and research for the mentally ill, among other things?
My legislators (In MA) are most all endorsed by NAMI, want government funding for science and health. They also all want restrictions on gun sales. Would you vote for them?
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:41
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 22, 2014, at 19:10:34
> My legislators (In MA) are most all endorsed by NAMI, want government funding for science and health. They also all want restrictions on gun sales. Would you vote for them?
:-)
LostBoy,
I am mostly offended that someone should blame the mentally ill electorate for the lack of extant knowledge that is to be "THE" root cause of TRD. Was this true 100 years ago before MAOIs appeared by accident? No, of course not. From what I read on the Internet, research is proceeding at a fevered pace. It occurs to me that more money might not have quickened the pace of discovery over the last 55 years. There are still sticking points as the evolution of medical technology to perform experiments simply did not exist, and today dictates the rate of discovery.
Okay. I vote. Now what? Severely depressed people have difficulty getting out of bed. Now what? Severely depressed people don't read the newspaper on a daily basis in order to stay current. Now what? The newspaper often does not announce the position canditate's takes on spending more money on the research of mental illness. Now what? Sometimes, no candidate has in their stated platform an opinion on mental illness. Now what?
Tell me who to vote for. I'll do it!
The answer is not so much how to vote, but to produce canditates to vote for.
It is unfortunate that politics should so often dictate the behaviors of politicians. In my state, a prospective candidate for governor who had a family member with severe depression was the ideal person to advocate for the mentally ill. He capitulated to the candidate who had far more money to campaign with. In this case, I doubt write-in votes would have helped.
Grass-roots campaigns to write massive numbers of letters to incumbents and potential candidates should help produce sympathetic and activist candidates to vote for. Perhaps this is already being done. NAMI and DBSA have done this for years. Now what? I once sent a document that I wrote to EVERY state legislator in my state and managed to get it physically placed into the hands of the governor. I was advocating for Medicaid recipients who were being ejected from the partial hospitalization system. Within two months, a change in state Medicaid regulations allowed for the continued care of the mentally ill in these programs beyond the former two year limit. Did my letter writing campaign help to produce substantive change? I don't know. Probably, according to the facilitator of a local PH program that shoved my letter in the governor's hands. Bully for me. Now what?
How about severely anergic depressives with cognitive slowing? Most cannot pull off what I did. In other words, severely mentally ill people can rarely advocate for themselves. Now what? Is the failure of them to vote at the root of their TRD?
I don't know who to vote for. Maybe a democrat by default?
I have voted in the past. I remain ill. Now what?
Am I a defeatist?
I don't think it is productive to blame the victim for the absence of an effective treatment. I doubt you set out to assert such an opinion, but this is how I took it.
- Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:42
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 22, 2014, at 19:10:34
The basic idea is, you vote consistently. Even in the midterms. Then after you vote and people are elected, you EMAIL THEM, CALL THEM and WRITE THEM and tell them, "hey *ssh*l*, I vote every election. I want more prolific federal funding for basic and advanced science research that will lead to much more effective treatment for severe mental illnesses. I also want you to propose and pass federal legislation that would prevent abuse to psychiatric sufferers. As a citizen and a voter, I keep track of how my elected officials vote on key issues I care about a lot. And I do not vote for them if I see they are not supporting my interests. Thank you and I wish you well."
I dont live in MASS, so your question to me is stupid and does not apply to me. Vote however YOU desire. BTW, you almost sound as if you are looking for an excuse NOT to vote...which is typical in this demographic.
Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
> > Get out and start voting. The midterms are coming up this Fall 2014.
> >
> > Eric AKA "LostBoyinNC"
>
> For whom should you vote? Tea-party, pro-NRA candidates who want to cut taxes and defund government, including basic science research? Or liberal, anti-NRA candidates who want to raise taxes and increase government spending on care and research for the mentally ill, among other things?
>
> My legislators (In MA) are most all endorsed by NAMI, want government funding for science and health. They also all want restrictions on gun sales. Would you vote for them?
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:42
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by SLS on February 23, 2014, at 9:33:16
SLS,
You seem to be kind of, shall I say, unable to think or abstract or something. I made it clear that in the beginning that the problem is the MAJORITY of seriously mentally ill individuals do not vote and if they vote, they dont vote CONSISTENTLY.
The key is getting seriously mentally ill people to vote en masse. And not only vote en masse, to email their elected officials en masse on this subject.
It is only when a block of voters with special interests (you and me) vote en masse and write their elected officials en masses, that what I am describing actually works.
So you have voted? Thats great, wonderful it truly is. Congratulations. But, do you vote every election? Even in the mid terms? And do you also write and email your elected officials and tell them about the issues you care about and things you want changed or not changed? Do you get a formal written response back from your elected officials?
And do your mentally ill brethren, en masse, do the same thing? I realize there are some very severely mentally ill individuals who are too far gone to have the mental ability to go to the polls, vote and compose emails and compose their thoughts. But those people are in the minority of the mentally ill ranks.
If you are here on this forum or other, similar forums, you have the ability to vote consistently and to email and write your elected officials. No excuses, no ifs, ands or but this, but that. No more excuses, no more bs. You either care about yourself or you dont. One of the ways people show to the world that they care about themselves (at least a little bit) is to go to the polls consistently, vote and email/write their elected officials. Thats the way our country operates.
Lets take an example of a demographic that votes like crazy and writes their elected officials like crazy. I belong to this demographic as well as the mentally ill demographic. The NRA, pro-Second Amendment demographic. This demographic is very aggressive when it comes to voting consistently and very aggressive when it comes emailing and writing their elected officials on the subject of gun control laws and pro-Second Amendment issues.
And look at the results they typically get! They broke the President of the United States back last April, when comrade obama's vaunted gun control Act was defeated in the U.S. Senate. Why did that happen? BECAUSE PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT PEOPLE VOTE CONSISTENTLY AND THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS KNOW THAT AND THOSE SAME ELECTED OFFICIALS WANT TO GET RE-ELECTED!!!!
Other demographics with similar successes in the lobbying/voting area include: AARP members, the pro-Israel American Jewish lobby, the homosexual/gay HIV/AIDS demographic...they were very very successful in the late eighties and the nineties at getting politicians to move off their butts in getting aggressive federal aid for HIV drug research. If they had not done that back then, there would be a huge amount more of dead people in the USA from AIDS.
I see nothing like this from the mentally ill crowd. While you might find some exceptions such as myself, who vote and write very consistently, I am not typical. The typical is to be depressed/bipolar/schizophrenic whatever, go on disability or hold down a part time job and live with your parents or in a group home and post on psychobabble or similar forums a lot. And go around WHINING all the time and trying new drugs all the time, like a dog chasing its tail.
To me, that is not the way I like to do business. I dont know why I bother to try with you people anymore. I should have learned my lesson a long time ago.
Again, if you are posting here or elsewhere on the Internet regularly, you ALSO have the full ability to vote in every single election and to email and write your elected officials on the subject of serious mental illness, improved funding for vastly more effective medications and treatments. There are simply no excuses, other than laziness and ignorance.
The "why bother?" or the "who cares?" or the "my vote does not matter" is exactly the reason why there is such a thing as TRD.
Eric
>
> LostBoy,
>
> I am mostly offended that someone should blame the mentally ill electorate for the lack of extant knowledge that is to be "THE" root cause of TRD. Was this true 100 years ago before MAOIs appeared by accident? No, of course not. From what I read on the Internet, research is proceeding at a fevered pace. It occurs to me that more money might not have quickened the pace of discovery over the last 55 years. There are still sticking points as the evolution of medical technology to perform experiments simply did not exist, and today dictates the rate of discovery.
>
> Okay. I vote. Now what? Severely depressed people have difficulty getting out of bed. Now what? Severely depressed people don't read the newspaper on a daily basis in order to stay current. Now what? The newspaper often does not announce the position canditate's takes on spending more money on the research of mental illness. Now what? Sometimes, no candidate has in their stated platform an opinion on mental illness. Now what?
>
> Tell me who to vote for. I'll do it!
>
> The answer is not so much how to vote, but to produce canditates to vote for.
>
> It is unfortunate that politics should so often dictate the behaviors of politicians. In my state, a prospective candidate for governor who had a family member with severe depression was the ideal person to advocate for the mentally ill. He capitulated to the candidate who had far more money to campaign with. In this case, I doubt write-in votes would have helped.
>
> Grass-roots campaigns to write massive numbers of letters to incumbents and potential candidates should help produce sympathetic and activist candidates to vote for. Perhaps this is already being done. NAMI and DBSA have done this for years. Now what? I once sent a document that I wrote to EVERY state legislator in my state and managed to get it physically placed into the hands of the governor. I was advocating for Medicaid recipients who were being ejected from the partial hospitalization system. Within two months, a change in state Medicaid regulations allowed for the continued care of the mentally ill in these programs beyond the former two year limit. Did my letter writing campaign help to produce substantive change? I don't know. Probably, according to the facilitator of a local PH program that shoved my letter in the governor's hands. Bully for me. Now what?
>
> How about severely anergic depressives with cognitive slowing? Most cannot pull off what I did. In other words, severely mentally ill people can rarely advocate for themselves. Now what? Is the failure of them to vote at the root of their TRD?
>
> I don't know who to vote for. Maybe a democrat by default?
>
> I have voted in the past. I remain ill. Now what?
>
> Am I a defeatist?
>
> I don't think it is productive to blame the victim for the absence of an effective treatment. I doubt you set out to assert such an opinion, but this is how I took it.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:43
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » SLS, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 12:39:26
Okay.
What have you written - and to whom?
Who should I vote for?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:43
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » SLS, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 12:39:26
> SLS,
Oh, I forgot to ask...
> You seem to be kind of, shall I say, unable to think or abstract or something.Is it okay with you that I am unable to think or abstract or something? I am mentally ill, you know.
- Scott
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:44
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 23, 2014, at 15:58:52
I could care less that you are mentally ill and obviously unable to think or reason well. I can read your posts and that is obvious.
It does bother me some, however, that you are able to spend so much time posting on this forum. Yet seem to have such a cavalier attitude about voting and writing your elected officials. Yes, that attitude bothers me some. It makes me wonder if it really true what psychiatrists claim, that most mentally ill people are unable to take care of themselves...in the most basic kinds of ways.
Eric
> > SLS,
>
> Oh, I forgot to ask...
>
> > You seem to be kind of, shall I say, unable to think or abstract or something.
>
> Is it okay with you that I am unable to think or abstract or something? I am mentally ill, you know.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:44
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 19:02:54
> I could care less that you are mentally ill
That's a great place to start your campaign for the effective treatment of TRD. Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:44
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » LostBoyinNC45, posted by SLS on February 23, 2014, at 19:40:55
Do your thing and lets see how far you get. Phillipa
Posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:45
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 12:14:23
> I dont live in MASS, so your question to me is stupid and does not apply to me. Vote however YOU desire. BTW, you almost sound as if you are looking for an excuse NOT to vote...which is typical in this demographic.
>
Maybe we should move this to politics, before vitriol spill into the med board. Excuse me. But I always vote and always contribute to NAMI and follow their campaigns. So I am way above the curve here. But, for whom to you vote? I really want to know? The NRA candidate who wants to defund government? Or...? And I bet that legislators are really, really responsive to the rare email they receive that asks them to fund mental health.In MA, I have the luxury of knowing that my legislators actually care about this issue. I leave it to NAMiI to vet candidates. To vet candidates and lobby on my own would be more than a full-time job. That's why we have lobbying, advocacy groups like NAMI. I donate to NAMI. I read their literature. I know the state NAMI director and ask her about candidates.
The idea that politics is all individual - I study A, vote for A, call A's office, etc -- is not workable. That's why we have advocacy organizations. I rely on them to do the homework and vote their slates.
Posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:45
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 23, 2014, at 20:33:49
You know WHY the NRA is such a successful pro-2A lobbying group? Outsiders think its some big secret or something. Or outsiders will always claim "its the big money spent on guns and ammo that keeps the Second Amendment alive."
Neither speculative claim is correct.
The reason the NRA is so successful as a pro-2A lobbying group is very simple, so pitifully simple that a lot of people refuse to believe it. The reason is, the NRA tells its membership to get off their duffs and vote consistently. The NRA also tells it membership to get off their duffs and write their elected officials when critical issues come up periodically.
Thats all it is. Simple. Voting and sending out some emails or letters one to three times a year.
I used to be a member of NAMI myself. Im a member of NARSAD now. I like NARSAD more than I like NAMI. However neither advocacy groups is a well oiled machine like the NRA is and routinely reinforces their membership to "get off your duffs and vote." Nor does NAMI routinely encourage a lot of communications between constituents and elected officials on mental illness advocacy issues.
Ive never been impressed by the effectiveness of NAMI as a mental illness advocacy organization. Compared to the NRA, NAMI is kind of like second string JV in terms of quality and effectiveness. NAMI simply is not aggressive enough. NAMI does like to ask for a lot of donations, however.
NAMI also is more for the parents and family of the people afflicted with severe mental illness. Rather than trying to directly involve the people who have the illnesses. I'd be willing to bet you are either more a caretaker or a doctor who helps to treat these people, than a patient yourself, based upon your writing.
I dont agree with you about relying totally on advocacy organizations. The membership of the advocacy organizations has to vote consistently on the issues for the advocacy organization to be effective. As I stated earlier, that very simple reason is the reason the NRA is so effective. And it is very effective.
If 95% of sufferers of these illnesses voted consistent and also emailed their elected officials once or twice a year about these issues, severe mental illness would be much higher priority than it is. Its as simple as that.
Eric
> >
> Maybe we should move this to politics, before vitriol spill into the med board. Excuse me. But I always vote and always contribute to NAMI and follow their campaigns. So I am way above the curve here. But, for whom to you vote? I really want to know? The NRA candidate who wants to defund government? Or...? And I bet that legislators are really, really responsive to the rare email they receive that asks them to fund mental health.
>
> In MA, I have the luxury of knowing that my legislators actually care about this issue. I leave it to NAMiI to vet candidates. To vet candidates and lobby on my own would be more than a full-time job. That's why we have lobbying, advocacy groups like NAMI. I donate to NAMI. I read their literature. I know the state NAMI director and ask her about candidates.
>
> The idea that politics is all individual - I study A, vote for A, call A's office, etc -- is not workable. That's why we have advocacy organizations. I rely on them to do the homework and vote their slates.
Posted by baseball55 on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:46
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » baseball55, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 22:09:06
I'd be willing to bet you are either more a caretaker or a doctor who helps to treat these people, than a patient yourself, based upon your writing.
You'd bet wrong.
>
> If 95% of sufferers of these illnesses voted consistent and also emailed their elected officials once or twice a year about these issues, severe mental illness would be much higher priority than it is. Its as simple as that.
>
>The problem with that is that the mentally ill are not a homogenous group who are easily organized around a specific issue and who self-identify as advocates of that issue. When I was severely depressed, for example, I barely registered politics. My nephew suffers from schizophrenia and is barely able to stay out of the hospital.And, even if he or I were/had been in better shape, it's still unclear what legislation we would be pursuing. Do you have ideas here? I don't. More research funding for NIMH? My delegation already supports this. More funding for community mental health? My delegation supports this as well.
Beyond these issues, it's not clear what the federal government can/should do that will end TRD. Your position that TRD would end if the mentally ill would organize themselves is like saying that cancer would end if cancer victims organized themselves - well, they have (or rather their loved ones have) and it's helped increase funding for research. It hasn't eliminated cancer.
Also, despite your disdain for advocacy groups, cancer survivors and family/friends generally lobby based on recommendations from the ACS. JUst as NRA members lobby based on recommendations from the NRA.
I rely on NAMI, realizing that NAMI is poorly funded compared to other lobbying groups. The mentally ill and their allies are probably too overwhelmed by mental illness and its fallout and stigma to organize themselves the way those affected by cancer do.
>
>
> Eric
>
>
> > >
> > Maybe we should move this to politics, before vitriol spill into the med board. Excuse me. But I always vote and always contribute to NAMI and follow their campaigns. So I am way above the curve here. But, for whom to you vote? I really want to know? The NRA candidate who wants to defund government? Or...? And I bet that legislators are really, really responsive to the rare email they receive that asks them to fund mental health.
> >
> > In MA, I have the luxury of knowing that my legislators actually care about this issue. I leave it to NAMiI to vet candidates. To vet candidates and lobby on my own would be more than a full-time job. That's why we have lobbying, advocacy groups like NAMI. I donate to NAMI. I read their literature. I know the state NAMI director and ask her about candidates.
> >
> > The idea that politics is all individual - I study A, vote for A, call A's office, etc -- is not workable. That's why we have advocacy organizations. I rely on them to do the homework and vote their slates.
>
>
Posted by johnLA on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:46
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is, posted by baseball55 on February 23, 2014, at 20:33:49
Posted by Willful on February 24, 2014, at 16:51:46
In reply to Re: THE root cause of TRD is » baseball55, posted by LostBoyinNC45 on February 23, 2014, at 22:09:06
The reason the NRA is effective, other than that apparently they have members with enough disposable cash to make sizeable donations, so that the organization is able to make sizeable donations to many politicians, to have lobbyists in Washington who pressure legislators to vote against gun control, and to push for their agenda.
Gun control advocates are often single-issue voters, and for this reason, the organization has unusual sway over the election of candidates-- their members vote consistently for ONE thing-- and that is freedom from any sort of restriction on the availability and dissemination of guns.
Many other people, who belong to various organizations, are not single-issue voters-- there are many issue that divide their loyalties,a nd they do not come out for any candidate who simply embraces their sole issue-- they support various candidates for various reasons. Nor are their organizations as wealthy and therefore as able to funnel funds into activities or ads or donations that are focuses solely on this one thing.
The same can be said of anti abortion voters, who are more powerful than other voters who can lean toward one or another candidates for many conflicting reasons.
There is no reason to assume that the mentally ill constitute some sort of single-issue voting bloc. They come from all walks of life, and are not focused simply and exclusively on improving treatment of mental illness particularly through election of candidates. Science doesn't respond simply to political power-- even if funding is available science can only proceed in those areas that are fertile and sufficiently advanced.
Your accusations against the mentally ill stem I think from lack of understanding of how electoral politics and science work-- and how much more able single-issue lobbies are able to bring people to the polls for their issue-- while other groups depend much more on various and fluctuating types of relevance to people's lives and voting decisions. You seem to be blaming the mentally ill for having more important things to worry about like jobs, health care in general, education, etc than their illnesses- and whose votes do not therefore always follow only one beaten path.
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