![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2009, at 16:49:55
I must have picked it up from djfoundation, the dj from Mosul. He was saying that now the USA has a Muslim president, so it's not a belief confined to the US.
Djfoundation is kinda interesting. The first track is called 'All Night' and features the kind of noise that one might have heard all night long in Baghdad as freedom, democracy and the rule of law were restored over the decade.
Here is his myspace page
Posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2009, at 16:51:40
In reply to Obama and stuff, posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2009, at 16:49:55
On his site you can listen to 'All Night' as I am doing just now.
Just click the link!
Posted by Garnet71 on March 27, 2009, at 18:05:11
In reply to Obama and stuff, posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2009, at 16:49:55
Hi Sigi. Haven't checked this board in a while. I don't feel like talking about the war, but out of mere curiousity of your post, I checked out the site and saw this comment:
"You know that i love you, and together we can go far. I am no idiot see, and i see in your music mixing your perception of cultural sexuality... A type of sexuality which our western culture might bring. Your on the front lines of a battle which you might not fully understand just yet. Let me tell you. In contrast to a world which we both cannot see (i cant see yours, you cant see mine) i am sure that you see the sexuality of the western American coming towards the mid-east. What else will homogenize our cultures then sexiness? But.... will you further their sexual trap? Or will you help expose it's weakness....You will see that you will shift minds within the domain that inspires your mixing... Be careful, a lot is at stake.
S.L.U.T."
_________________________________About that attitude...The thing is--there are more prostitutes in the Middle East than in the U.S.; that's ok, no problem there for men to have promiscious sex and cheat on their wives, but it's not okay for the women in the general population to reveal their sexuality, although Iraq is one of the more liberal places in those terms.
The Western sexuality 'oh no' thing is sometimes used to opress women. Women have power when they are sexy; some people are threatened by it (men who have the power).
So I wanted to ask you what you thought about this. Do you see that too? Or do you believe that cultures should be left sovereign no matter how badly citizens are treated due to cultural differences and that there should be no universal human rights (as some people do believe)?
Posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2009, at 20:50:57
In reply to Re: Obama and stuff » Sigismund, posted by Garnet71 on March 27, 2009, at 18:05:11
>Or do you believe that cultures should be left sovereign no matter how badly citizens are treated due to cultural differences and that there should be no universal human rights (as some people do believe)?
Nice to see someone here. I'm not a cultural relativist, if that's the right expression. I feel very strongly for the women of the Islamic world, and perhaps for the last 5 years, certainly in Afghanistan and I think in Iraq and throughout the region, things have gone backward on that front as extremists have been empowered and moderate opinion sidelined. It's just crazy, really. You may recall bin Laden saying something along the lines of) of the presence of the US army in Saudi Arabia "By God, we do not need to be defended by crusaders and Jewish prostitutes." The odd thing is, just following this chain of thought along, that the CIA and sections of the US armed forces have moved in the same direction by using sexual humiliation in their interrogation procedures.
If we wish to be credible it might be best not to claim that the invasion of Iraq had much to do with Saddam's human rights record, given the support given him in the Iran Iraq war by the west (in retaliation for the Iranian revolution, itself revenge for the overthrow of Mossadeq) of air reconnaissance and perhaps even poison gas.
Posted by Garnet71 on March 27, 2009, at 22:46:18
In reply to Re: Obama and stuff » Garnet71, posted by Sigismund on March 27, 2009, at 20:50:57
Hi Sigi, Well since I can't do all I need to do until I'm stabilized, I might as well do something-anything.
I've never heard human rights claims as the basis of the 2003 Iraq invasion, but yes, I've heard the Bush administration mention them many times-more in a periphial way as a response to criticism.
A Saudi prince's plane would fly into one of the airports I used to work at, and park there a for a few days. I never went on it, but some of my coworkers have. The interior was lined with gold. It was one of those HUGE planes-the biggest civilian aircraft, well back then, a L10-11. The whole airport would shake when it took off. Western society was great when the prince's family (I think the one with medical problems was a female) needed to fly here to get monthly medical care. If only he considered 1/2 the talent here is female...they stifle the talent of 1/2 the population in the way they opress women. We'll never know if a Saudi woman is the one who would find the cure for cancer, yet wasn't allowed to drive a car to work, in the 21st century. Yea, Western society is always great when it benefits you personally, and provides profits from oil to support a lot of people who don't even work for a living.
I wonder if its going to go the other way in the U.S. Black females have much higher college enrollment rates than black males, and they have been steadily climbing. I should look at other trends and see where we are going, just out of curiousity. I used to work with this anthropologist who did her dissertation with the thesis that women would discriminate against men in the future and have the predominant power in society. With some of the hateful feminist movements going on, though I'm not as familar with them to know whether or not they are growing, but that along with some other smaller, but numerous trends, I wouldn't be overly skeptical of that claim.
The Cold War strategy you mentioned-supporting Saddam (and we also once supported the Taliban in competing with Russia) has shifted from supporting/collecting allies consisting of political groups/states to winning over populations. Are you aware of that? According to national security strategy, it's going to be a lot of propaganda, coersion, technology, media, but also employment opportunities and aid; trade, capitalism. It concerns me, however, because now if someone 'turns on us'--it will be the population of a whole country rather than just its leader(s) or groups w/in a population. It seems like another Cold War, but with people instead of states.
Posted by Sigismund on March 28, 2009, at 3:06:28
In reply to Re: Obama and stuff » Sigismund, posted by Garnet71 on March 27, 2009, at 22:46:18
Foreign policy requires wisdom, one ingredient of which should be credibility. Obama has that. He sounds like he is talking about this world. Anything can go wrong in diplomacy, but he has been real and generous. The rest of the world though may see things through the history they have experienced.
The Saudis amaze me. All that kitsch you mention, and indeed I read that in the redevelopment of Mecca, when the Prophet's house was due to be bulldozed, the greatest dispensation that could be gained by a Saudi archeologist was to have a stay of demolition for something like a month until the building could be properly recorded.
In India Islam and Hinduism eventually came to an accommodation, where Sufi Islam became a tolerant and interesting faith. So much has been lost by the spread of fundamentalism.....petrodollar Wahabiism. The Middle East from Pakistan to the Mediterranean has been ethnically cleansed in the last 100 years.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on April 3, 2009, at 1:20:12
In reply to Re: Obama and stuff, posted by Sigismund on March 28, 2009, at 3:06:28
One (actually...a few things here..) other little, uh, piece of barely heard information if I may. This takes us back to the hijackers of "9/11". Each of those individuals where citizens of Saudi Arabia. Each had entered the U.S. on completely valid Saudi passports. And...if I can also add...the day after 9/11, when ALL airtraffic was grounded in the U.S., an aircraft owned by the Saudi's was allowed to fly around America and pick up Bin Laden family members (Yes I know how giant that family is...but...) and fly them to wherever they wanted to go in the world. Yes, it was also "nice" (and Bob I am being sarcastic...irony is in, man!!) to know that earlier that day on 9/11, Osama Bin Laden placed a phonecall to his....wait..
mother, who was living in England. Geezz..how nice of him, eh?! <gulp>Jay
Posted by Sigismund on April 3, 2009, at 23:18:50
In reply to Re: Obama and stuff » Sigismund, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on April 3, 2009, at 1:20:12
Jay, why do you think the Administration flew the bin Ladens out?
I've never heard anyone speculate on why.
Out of deference to the family's feelings and safety?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Politics | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.