![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fayeroe on December 4, 2008, at 18:27:13
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039287/
I absolutely cannot understand why America doesn't tell Mexico that the problem is coming from their country and their resources ($$$$) have to be put to work along with our $$$$$.
As a citizen of the United States, I'm sick of the flow of drugs that comes in 24/7.
I've also noticed that at the prison there are many more Mexicans coming in than blacks and whites. Blacks did have the majority, but no more. I suspect that it all ties into the drug violence. I know that here in central Texas the crime rate has soared in the Mexican neighborhoods. For me what it all means is that lots of illegals are involved in the Mexican drug trade.
When Vincent Fox was President of Mexico, he had $6,000 bed sheets! Something wrong with that picture?
Posted by Sigismund on December 4, 2008, at 21:55:12
In reply to Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$, posted by fayeroe on December 4, 2008, at 18:27:13
I read a book about the trade which mentioned a figure paid to secure 1 hour of Mexican airspace, which was enormous but I've forgotten it.
In that hour the aeroplanes (not light aircraft) queued in military formation, stacked on top of one another in the sky, because they only had the one hour, in which time they had to get the planes on the ground, offloaded, and off again. Guarded by the armed forces on the ground. Once down it was broken up and taken across the border overland.
I was astonished.
Posted by fayeroe on December 5, 2008, at 5:34:56
In reply to Re: Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$ » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on December 4, 2008, at 21:55:12
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, I am scared witless by that.
And things are being cut with everything under the kitchen sink nowadays....so the profits are getting bigger all of the time.
An offender told me about moving TRUCK loads of methamphetamine up and down I-35. (one of our major north/south highways.) He got caught right by the border. 14 years. I don't know if it was just the supplies or the end product.
Oh, I forgot! Our war on drugs will handle all of this. (under the table, most likely)
Gotta go to work! Pat
Posted by yxibow on December 6, 2008, at 21:08:47
In reply to Re: Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$ » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on December 5, 2008, at 5:34:56
> Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, I am scared witless by that.
>
> And things are being cut with everything under the kitchen sink nowadays....so the profits are getting bigger all of the time.
>
> An offender told me about moving TRUCK loads of methamphetamine up and down I-35. (one of our major north/south highways.) He got caught right by the border. 14 years. I don't know if it was just the supplies or the end product.
>
> Oh, I forgot! Our war on drugs will handle all of this. (under the table, most likely)
>
> Gotta go to work! Pat
Meth may come from Mexico but most of it is being home "grown", literally. It is an enormous problem in the midwest for whatever reason.Its primarily the cocaine and marijuana trade that's coming from Mexico.
But personally I think the "war on drugs" is a battle that consumes an awful lot of money and, lives at times.
I'm not for hard (well people will have different opinions) street drugs at all, e.g. meth, cocaine, ketamine, extacy, DXM, GHB, etc., but I think if we withdrew from attempting to have a war on drugs on marijuana maybe there wouldn't be illegal plantations in our national forests and National Forest LEOs being endangered, and shootouts with "marijuana cartels".
I personally don't think that, not that I've ever tried it, but that it is particularly a harm for most people -- I do believe it has medical use -- in fact a lot more drugs were being used in the roaring 20s, the movies produced by the goverment towards the 30s about the "dangers" of marijuana seem laughable today (some clips can be seen in "Grass"), it was effectively made schedule I when the FDA act came in the 30s.
That said, I don't think 12 year olds should be toking on it, it should be taxed like cigarettes and made a behind the counter small quantity at say 18 or 21.
-- Jay
Posted by fayeroe on December 7, 2008, at 10:44:39
In reply to Re: Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$ » fayeroe, posted by yxibow on December 6, 2008, at 21:08:47
> > Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, I am scared witless by that.
> >
> > And things are being cut with everything under the kitchen sink nowadays....so the profits are getting bigger all of the time.
> >
> > An offender told me about moving TRUCK loads of methamphetamine up and down I-35. (one of our major north/south highways.) He got caught right by the border. 14 years. I don't know if it was just the supplies or the end product.
> >
> > Oh, I forgot! Our war on drugs will handle all of this. (under the table, most likely)
> >
> > Gotta go to work! Pat
>
>
> Meth may come from Mexico but most of it is being home "grown", literally. It is an enormous problem in the midwest for whatever reason.I checked my notes and he was delivering south and bringing supplies north. I refused to become a "first responder" in southeastern Oklahoma due to the numbers of meth labs in the mountains. Not only did I not want to be around those chemicals (burning) but I didn't want to be riddled with holes from some crazy person's shotgun. Those guys mean business there.
The law that took "sudafed" off the store shelves was passed first in Oklahoma. A young state trooper checked a stopped pickup and was killed by a manufacturer.
>
> Its primarily the cocaine and marijuana trade that's coming from Mexico.In Mexico one time and could hardly breathe, while walking on a street, due to the heavy smoke from pot. EVERYONE was smoking.
>
> But personally I think the "war on drugs" is a battle that consumes an awful lot of money and, lives at times.The war on drugs is embarrassing.
>
> I'm not for hard (well people will have different opinions) street drugs at all, e.g. meth, cocaine, ketamine, extacy, DXM, GHB, etc., but I think if we withdrew from attempting to have a war on drugs on marijuana maybe there wouldn't be illegal plantations in our national forests and National Forest LEOs being endangered, and shootouts with "marijuana cartels".I've lived in two areas where pot grows like mad..New Mexico and southeastern Oklahoma. More money is spent on diesel (gas?) for helicopters that are surveilling than I can believe! It could be spent for education and help those kids learn "what and what not to grow"> :-) Seriously.
>
> I personally don't think that, not that I've ever tried it, but that it is particularly a harm for most people -- I do believe it has medical use -- in fact a lot more drugs were being used in the roaring 20s, the movies produced by the goverment towards the 30s about the "dangers" of marijuana seem laughable today (some clips can be seen in "Grass"), it was effectively made schedule I when the FDA act came in the 30s.I believe that pot should be legalized. 63% of the female population that is incarcerated is because of drug charges. 41% of those charges is pot......Is that making sense, Washington?
>
> That said, I don't think 12 year olds should be toking on it, it should be taxed like cigarettes and made a behind the counter small quantity at say 18 or 21.Agreed. Pat
>
> -- Jay
Posted by desolationrower on December 11, 2008, at 9:17:01
In reply to Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$, posted by fayeroe on December 4, 2008, at 18:27:13
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039287/
>
> I absolutely cannot understand why America doesn't tell Mexico that the problem is coming from their country and their resources ($$$$) have to be put to work along with our $$$$$.
>
> As a citizen of the United States, I'm sick of the flow of drugs that comes in 24/7.thats what we have been doing, it has not worked. the drugs will always continue to come when there is a market here for them.
prohibition in the US is destroying Mexican country its almost to a state of civil war in some areas. prohibition is a violent failure as always.
-d/r
Posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 9:27:36
In reply to Re: Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$, posted by desolationrower on December 11, 2008, at 9:17:01
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039287/
> >
> > I absolutely cannot understand why America doesn't tell Mexico that the problem is coming from their country and their resources ($$$$) have to be put to work along with our $$$$$.
> >
> > As a citizen of the United States, I'm sick of the flow of drugs that comes in 24/7.
>
> thats what we have been doing, it has not worked. the drugs will always continue to come when there is a market here for them.
>
> prohibition in the US is destroying Mexican country its almost to a state of civil war in some areas. prohibition is a violent failure as always.
>
> -d/rmy frustration is with the fact that the war on drugs has been a failure from day one. the Reagan administration started their "just say no" program and anyone with half a brain knew that none of that would work.
i'm just saying that Mexico should have to bear responsibility for their part in stopping the influx of drugs here.
i say legalize pot and let all of those offenders out of prison and set up huge rehab programs all over the country. rehabiliation instead of incarceration owhen possible. 63% of all female offenders are in prison due to drug offenses. 35% are pot related. that is insane!!!!
partial end of rant. pat
Posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 13:05:53
In reply to Re: Clear out the Mexican drug cartels $$$$$ » desolationrower, posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 9:27:36
>35% are pot related. that is insane!!
Well yes, and I read in the paper here that almost half of *our* prison population are, but anyway, pot is the easy end of the spectrum, isn't it?
I don't have any ideas.
Our tendency to make war on the nearest abstract noun is our defining attribute.
Is it the price of our hypocrisy?
Perhaps this is how we genuflect these days.
Posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 13:12:19
In reply to How's the war on poverty going?, posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 13:05:53
My notion is that our government has sat on their butts (while reaching under the table for the kickbacks) and drug trade is so very bad, let's start at the bottom and kick the pot cases out. No way can we know how to deal with the top yet.
Follow the money and you'll find the altar.
Posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 13:20:49
In reply to Re: How's the war on poverty going? » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 13:12:19
There was someone in the news way back who was smoking a joint in the privacy of his home in Texas and went to prison.
>, let's start at the bottom and kick the pot cases out.
Yes, of course.
Down town here it is so bad from alcohol related violence that I worry about young people down there on a Friday night. During schoolies they sweep the young kids out of the bushes when it gets light. Every so often someone gets killed, or is up on a manslaughter charge.
Posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 13:44:17
In reply to Re: How's the war on cancer going? » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 13:20:49
> There was someone in the news way back who was smoking a joint in the privacy of his home in Texas and went to prison.
>
> >, let's start at the bottom and kick the pot cases out.
>
> Yes, of course.
>
> Down town here it is so bad from alcohol related violence that I worry about young people down there on a Friday night. During schoolies they sweep the young kids out of the bushes when it gets light. Every so often someone gets killed, or is up on a manslaughter charge.yes, alcohol is horrible when abused. the father of my daughters is a "functioning" alcoholic (really bad) and he was outraged when they smoked pot in highschool. the HORROR of those drugs! ranted and raved and staggered around, wildly waving his tea glass full of bourbon and water. (we were divorced by then)
i'm yet to hear of a pot-induced rage!
it is very scary for those school age kids that are hanging around the downtown areas. i worry about what my grandchildren will have to deal with!
Posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 13:52:05
In reply to Re: How's the war on cancer going? » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 13:44:17
>the HORROR of those drugs! ranted and raved and staggered around, wildly waving his tea glass full of bourbon and water
Yes, it is interesting, the psychology of it.
I'm assuming your ex didn't have personal experience that led him to this opinion; it doesn't normally happen like that, does it?
People with experience (not necessarily pleasant) will normally be more nuanced?I'm assuming it is like witchcraft.
We westerners are always flying into moral panics and finding someone to punish.And what was the war after the war on cancer?
I forget.Living among the debris of all the lost wars.
Posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 14:09:41
In reply to Re: How's the war on cancer going?, posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 13:52:05
> >the HORROR of those drugs! ranted and raved and staggered around, wildly waving his tea glass full of bourbon and water
>
> Yes, it is interesting, the psychology of it.
> I'm assuming your ex didn't have personal experience that led him to this opinion; it doesn't normally happen like that, does it?my ex comes from a very long line of many fine alcoholics. a family tree that is very precious to him. (i had not been exposed to anyone that drank while growing up. it was like throwing me into the den of manhattans)
> People with experience (not necessarily pleasant) will normally be more nuanced?i'd pray on that one.
>
> I'm assuming it is like witchcraft.
> We westerners are always flying into moral panics and finding someone to punish.
>
> And what was the war after the war on cancer?
> I forget.
>
> Living among the debris of all the lost wars.and within sight of the luxuries that were bought by the gains from the lost wars.
Posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 16:01:11
In reply to Re: How's the war on cancer going? » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 14:09:41
The gains of war?
Yes, I've been thinking of how they distort the beneficiaries.
I never thought the Australia had ghosts.
I'd look at the country and think of all the people who had lived there and wonder why I could not feel their spirit.
The problem was, I was looking the wrong way.
If I'd looked behind me, or looked inside myself, I'd have seen that the ghosts were there, in the pretensions we had about ourselves: that we had this place in this world by reason of our virtues.I read this in EM Cioran
"Given the spectacle of their teeming success, the nations of the West had no trouble in exalting history, attributing to it a meaning and finality. It belonged to them, they were its agents: hence it must take a rational course.....Consequently they placed it under the patronage, by turns, of Providence, of Reason, and of Progress. What they lacked was a sense of fatality, which they are at last beginning to acquire, overwhelmed by the absence that lies in wait for them, by the prospect of their eclipse."
Posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 16:06:42
In reply to Re: How's the war on terror going? » fayeroe, posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 16:01:11
The pretensions a culture needs to avoid the guilt that comes with massive theft.
Posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 16:08:11
In reply to Re: How's the war on terror going? » Sigismund, posted by Sigismund on December 11, 2008, at 16:06:42
In the same way that colonialism bred racism, rather than vice versa.
Posted by caraher on December 11, 2008, at 17:21:22
In reply to Re: How's the war on cancer going? » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on December 11, 2008, at 13:44:17
> yes, alcohol is horrible when abused. the father of my daughters is a "functioning" alcoholic (really bad) and he was outraged when they smoked pot in highschool. the HORROR of those drugs! ranted and raved and staggered around, wildly waving his tea glass full of bourbon and water.
This reminds me of the aftermath of Saturday, April 1, 1989 in Ann Arbor, which saw the "Hash Bash" (a pro-pot smoke-in and legalization rally) and a semifinal victory for the University of Michigan in the NCAA college basketball tournament. These were followed by an April 5 Grateful Dead concert. The Hash Bash came first, held in the afternoon, and was generally uneventful apart from a smattering of arrests for possession that represented an negligible fraction of the overall open pot smoking. In the evening, as soon as the basketball game ended, the bars emptied and drunken students engaged in some rather conspicuous vandalism, duly recorded and aired on all the local TV news stations. As great sports riots go this was small potatoes, but it was unusually violent for Ann Arbor and caused much consternation (and a beefed-up law enforcement presence for the championship game on Monday).
Now the University considered the Hash Bash, held in the heart of campus, to be an embarrassment, and had begun to try to prevent the event through a variety of heavy-handed methods. The following year, they tried to argue in court that the campus was trashed because of all the Grateful Dead fans and Hash Bash attendees, and this justified denying a permit for the legalization rally - or failing that, charging a prohibitive fee as a deposit against any potential security costs or damage. Somehow drunken sports fans were not deemed by the University's lawyers a significant factor in the trashing of the near-campus bar district. Must have been those Deadheads in town early... reefer madness, right?
Eventually the university found better things to do with their money than waste it on lawyers getting laughed out of court doing battle with NORML...
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Politics | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.