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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zeugma on December 27, 2007, at 13:18:43
This is a tragedy for the whole world.
It was unbelievably courageous for her to return to Pakistan, where within 48 hours there was an attempt on her life.
Still, she stuck it out till the end.Not a surprise, just a tragedy.
-z
Posted by Sigismund on December 27, 2007, at 13:58:11
In reply to Benazir Bhutto assassinated, posted by zeugma on December 27, 2007, at 13:18:43
Really?
I'd just read this a few days back.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n24/print/ali_01_.html
It (and an article in Harpers about the oil industry in Iraq) made me wonder, not least about the news we get, which I must listen to this morning.
Paddy Ashdown said that Pakistan was lost, though who they would go to I have no idea. I imagine most people just want some material hope.
Posted by zeugma on December 27, 2007, at 14:39:01
In reply to Re: Benazir Bhutto assassinated » zeugma, posted by Sigismund on December 27, 2007, at 13:58:11
Fascinating reading.
I wonder if the assassination qualifies as the 'something unpredictable' that shakes things up.
Who knows.
The descriptions of politically inspired blackmail, on the other hand, had their amusing points; I wonder what our own political scene would look like, if such blackmail were exercised on a regular basis.
-z
Posted by gardenergirl on December 27, 2007, at 15:12:01
In reply to Benazir Bhutto assassinated, posted by zeugma on December 27, 2007, at 13:18:43
I absolutely agree with you.
I'm saddened and troubled by this.
gg
Posted by Sigismund on December 27, 2007, at 15:40:27
In reply to Re: Benazir Bhutto assassinated » zeugma, posted by gardenergirl on December 27, 2007, at 15:12:01
FWIW (not much) I think a significant problem in Pakistan is their political class.
And I wonder if the problems with that lie in part with the control the army has always had over so many aspects of life.
And then there's the geopolitical things with India and Afghanistan, Islam and whatnot.
Posted by zeugma on December 27, 2007, at 16:35:28
In reply to Re: Benazir Bhutto assassinated, posted by Sigismund on December 27, 2007, at 15:40:27
gg, it is very saddening.
Rep. Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island was en route to see her when she was shot. He surely can understand the impact of this assassination.
By next week we'll all be experts on Pakistani politics and society, I'm sure. Right now some expert is holding forth on its complexities. He is probably as wrong as everybody else.-z
Posted by zeugma on December 30, 2007, at 13:42:25
In reply to Re: Benazir Bhutto assassinated-gg and Sigusmund, posted by zeugma on December 27, 2007, at 16:35:28
it seems appropriate that Representative Kennedy's travel companion was Sen. Arlen Specter, of Warren Commission fame.
The Warren Commission report, by contrast, is a masterpiece of plausibility compared to some of the official stories I've heard. Too bad Mr. Musharraf couldn't get Sen. Specter to help his Government get its story together before Kennedy and Specter left for Syria.
Stories that violate all logic and eyewitness accounts are generally not believed, even when they are true. Having untampered evidence often helps as well, but I suppose in this one instance, the truth is gong to have to suffice alone. Mr. Musharraf made sure of that.-z
Posted by Sigismund on December 30, 2007, at 16:19:02
In reply to given the stories that have come of Pakistan, posted by zeugma on December 30, 2007, at 13:42:25
I have a sense of confusion thinking about Pakistan. Everyone opposes terrorism, everyone was involved with it on the ground floor, these are the only ones who can take on the militants, all this stuff.
Since Pakistan is beholden to the US for some of its upkeep, I suppose they have to say one lot of things for the domestic market and another lot for the international one?
This was interesting:
The dilemma faced by the Copts reflects a larger question now facing western policymakers. Throughout the Muslim world, political Islam is on the march. In the past three or four years, almost everywhere that Muslims have had the right to vote - in Lebanon, Pakistan, Palestine, Turkey, Egypt and Algeria - they have voted en masse for the religious parties in a way they have never done before. The only two exceptions to this rule are Morocco and Jordan, the latter in an election marked by accusations of mass vote-rigging.
Posted by zeugma on December 30, 2007, at 16:44:08
In reply to Re: given the stories that have come of Pakistan, posted by Sigismund on December 30, 2007, at 16:19:02
Dalyrimple does not mention the allegations of vote-rigging in Jordan.
I suppose it's irrelevant to his thesis that there is in fact a way of of turning "the Islamist tide at the ballot box."In our topsy-turvy world, maybe now is the time to spin rigged elections as fairer than fair ones?
I can see certain domestic agendas that would suit, too.-z
Posted by zeugma on December 30, 2007, at 16:56:31
In reply to Re: given the stories that have come of Pakistan, posted by Sigismund on December 30, 2007, at 16:19:02
Sorry- I read very quickly, although I normally write slowly, and did not catch what seems to be unusual carelessness.
He mentions the accusations of vote-rigging in Jordan in the body of his article, then cites their electoral process in the conclusion as an example of how "the Islamist tide can be turned?"
Without refuting or considering the credibility of the accusations?
No wonder I missed it.Is the New Statesman looking for an editor?
-z
Posted by zeugma on December 31, 2007, at 14:24:12
In reply to Re: given the stories that have come of Pakistan » Sigismund, posted by zeugma on December 30, 2007, at 16:56:31
I shouldn't have seemed to fault Dalyrmple for his incuriousity regarding whether the Jordanian elections were rigged. A rigged election may be far superior to an honest one. In Kenya, for instance, it appears that riots have broken out over allegations of rigging. And I'm sure Kenya is not the only land that has allowed its zeal for probity in the conduct of counting ballots to interfere with a higher cause.
That higher cause is democracy.
Some thoughts for the New Year.-z
Posted by Sigismund on December 31, 2007, at 19:22:50
In reply to fair elections, posted by zeugma on December 31, 2007, at 14:24:12
Shostakovich, one of the main characters in "Europe Central". He does irony well.
Almost finished it.
William (not to be confused with Theodore) Dalrymple has implicitly argued against the inevitability of a clash of civilizations in a couple of books.
His history has been criticised as selective, but his aim is so decent and humane, given the danger staring us in the face.I certainly hope Paddy Ashdown is wrong. Central Asia has suffered quite enough.
Once the then opposition here learned how to cope with wedge politics, the whole thing changed. For example, after the Stern Report, Mr Howard, looking at climate change as just another front in the culture wars, commissioned a report by a nuclear scientist into the viability of nuclear power here. The ALP declined to be wedged, and anyway soon an election was due, by which time the report was an embarrassment. (People had come to understand Mr Howard, which was why the polls were so consistent since April. On his morning walks people dressed up in rabbit suits, hopping around him and asking when the rabbit was coming out of the hat. On one memorable instance, someone offered to teleport him back in time so he could resign and avoid defeat.) It was nice to see Mr Rudd remind him of the Switowski Report in the televised debate.
Posted by zeugma on January 4, 2008, at 17:36:37
In reply to You might enjoy » zeugma, posted by Sigismund on December 31, 2007, at 19:22:50
William Dalyrmple has an essay in today's paper about Bhutto's assassination:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/opinion/04dalrymple.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=sloginIn it he ponders the irony that she was shot dead by the very forces she encouraged in Kashmir and Afghanistan during her terms as PM of Pakistan in the 80's and 90's. Without knowing enough about the history to critcise it for selectivity, I can state that these may not be the forces that killed her at all: Musharraf has all the credibility of certain U.S. politicians, and Scotland Yard is going to check up on his story (apparently Arlen Specter's call for a U.N. investigation is going unheeded, as good advice so often does).
One intriguing element of this case is that apparently Bhutto wished to meet with Specter and Kennedy in order to apprise them of an ISI scheme to fix the coming elections: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080104_Worldview___Scary_Pakistan_demands_new_U_S__policy.html
To get on to a more pleasant topic, I stayed up all night watching Obama win Iowa. Needless to say, I was ecstatic.
-z
Posted by Sigismund on January 4, 2008, at 17:53:36
In reply to speaking of irony » Sigismund, posted by zeugma on January 4, 2008, at 17:36:37
YES!!!!!!!!!
Wonderful.
Stayed up all night?
With our elections I started at 6 and watched uninterrupted until coverage stopped at 11.
After waiting so long.
Posted by Sigismund on January 4, 2008, at 17:57:39
In reply to speaking of irony » Sigismund, posted by zeugma on January 4, 2008, at 17:36:37
By my standards (Marcos, Rios Mont, Shah, Pinochet) Musharraff seems pretty reasonable.
Maybe I should rephrase that?
Posted by zeugma on January 4, 2008, at 18:12:14
In reply to Obama wins Iowa » zeugma, posted by Sigismund on January 4, 2008, at 17:53:36
Yes, it really was exciting watching the results come in.
Without question, this election year will be as significant for us as Rudd's victory was for you.Obama won in historic fashion (220,000 voters for the Democratic field, where in '04 less than half that bothered to vote. 220,000 is a record for the Iowa caucus.). And what I have been reading is that young people overwhelmingly supported him.
This is a sign that we have a promising generation coming up.
I stumbled into work late, but my colleagues, who shared my excitement, understood.-z
Posted by zeugma on January 4, 2008, at 18:16:49
In reply to Re: speaking of irony, posted by Sigismund on January 4, 2008, at 17:57:39
> By my standards (Marcos, Rios Mont, Shah, Pinochet) Musharraff seems pretty reasonable.
>
> Maybe I should rephrase that?I'd say the Shah is the best comparison.
-z
Posted by zazenducke on January 27, 2008, at 16:26:47
In reply to Re: speaking of irony » Sigismund, posted by zeugma on January 4, 2008, at 18:16:49
she used to work at the U of C medical school
i wonder if she has been impressed with our bob's civility and leadership potentialmaybe he will be the surgeon general soon
Posted by Sigismund on January 31, 2008, at 1:14:00
In reply to Michelle Obama looks like Jackie Kennedy, posted by zazenducke on January 27, 2008, at 16:26:47
The next first lady will be Cindy Lou, don't you think?
One more throw of the dice?
Posted by zazenducke on January 31, 2008, at 11:44:17
In reply to Re: Michelle Obama looks like Jackie Kennedy » zazenducke, posted by Sigismund on January 31, 2008, at 1:14:00
Would God really make a nation under Him choose between Cindy and a first laddie?
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