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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 10:30:51
helicopter crash. i am between grief and intense anger........talk to me.....
Posted by Declan on January 25, 2007, at 13:32:50
In reply to nephew killed in Iraq, posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 10:30:51
Pat, I'm so sorry. And it's not even as if you can tell yourself that it was worth it (forgive me if I'm wrong).
Isn't that the difference between good wars and bad ones? People are killed in both, but in a good war it was *for* something?
That was the problem with the whole WMD thing. It wasn't just a question of finding a package that would sell to the American people.
Any comparison with Churchill (for heaven's sake) is ludicrous. WMD was not telling the truth at a time of maximum peril.This mix of virtue, arrogance, hubris and idealism (not to speak of ignorance!).......yet so many of the junior officers in "The Assassins Gate" are very admirable people.
What a waste it all is, what a mess. Who knows where it will end up?
Posted by dessbee on January 25, 2007, at 15:07:49
In reply to nephew killed in Iraq, posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 10:30:51
I am so sorry to here this.
Casualty numbers are always anonymous but behind every number is an extinct life with hope and dreams, and relatives left in grief.
I really hope this war ends soon.
My thoughts goes out to all your family.Take care
dessbee
Posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 17:20:22
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq » fayeroe, posted by Declan on January 25, 2007, at 13:32:50
> Pat, I'm so sorry. And it's not even as if you can tell yourself that it was worth it (forgive me if I'm wrong).
>
> Isn't that the difference between good wars and bad ones? People are killed in both, but in a good war it was *for* something?
>
> That was the problem with the whole WMD thing. It wasn't just a question of finding a package that would sell to the American people.
> Any comparison with Churchill (for heaven's sake) is ludicrous. WMD was not telling the truth at a time of maximum peril.
>
> This mix of virtue, arrogance, hubris and idealism (not to speak of ignorance!).......yet so many of the junior officers in "The Assassins Gate" are very admirable people.
>
> What a waste it all is, what a mess. Who knows where it will end up?it will end when we're ground into the ground. i go between the intense crying jags to intense screaming and angry diatribes......it's beyond the pale. it isn't anywhere near a "he died for his country" grief.......WMDs......and all of the other reasons why we're there.......:-(
my SIL made it back safe in October and i was counting the weeks til my nephew came home. he was a surgeon and i thought he was a little safer due to his job.....thanks so much, declan.......xoxoxo pat
Posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 17:21:45
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq » fayeroe, posted by dessbee on January 25, 2007, at 15:07:49
> I am so sorry to here this.
> Casualty numbers are always anonymous but behind every number is an extinct life with hope and dreams, and relatives left in grief.
> I really hope this war ends soon.
> My thoughts goes out to all your family.
>
> Take care
> dessbeethere were 12 in the helicopter. that's probably 24 families, 24 communities, churches, schools, and it goes on and on out........like a pebble..except it's a life. thank you for your support. xoxo pat
>
Posted by caraher on January 25, 2007, at 18:39:33
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq, posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 17:21:45
(((((fayeroe)))))
I'm so sorry. I appreciate your anger and grief, though I cannot pretend to know their full depth. I also feel somewhat ashamed that, however much I did personally to voice my disapproval of this war and occupation, I didn't do more.
Although I opposed the Iraq adventure from well before its start, I've come to believe that the American lives lost were not, in fact, lost completely in vain if the war is a "failure." If the "liberation" of Iraq were the stunning, apparently low-cost success its advocates sold to the American public in 2002-3, it would have emboldened the architects of that policy to expand their dreams for a Pax Americana imposed by military dominance. I view the lost soldiers as giving their lives to restore the use of American military might to a scale more commensurate with genuine US security needs. It's tragic that a cost in blood was required to awaken Americans to the self-defeating character of the neoconservative fantasy. Why honor the sacrifice of our fighting men and women any less simply because those losses may have worked to save lives in a manner rather different from the one some of them and their political leaders envisioned?
Posted by Honore on January 26, 2007, at 7:45:33
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq, posted by caraher on January 25, 2007, at 18:39:33
You have my deepest condolences, Pat.
Not that it's ever much comfort, but your nephew was doing a tremendous amount of good. We have to thank him and you and your family, and grieve for your sacrifice.
He didn't die for nothing, more so because he was saving lives. It's just tragic that this had to happen--
Honore
Posted by fayeroe on January 26, 2007, at 8:02:33
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq, posted by caraher on January 25, 2007, at 18:39:33
> (((((fayeroe)))))
>
> I'm so sorry. I appreciate your anger and grief, though I cannot pretend to know their full depth. I also feel somewhat ashamed that, however much I did personally to voice my disapproval of this war and occupation, I didn't do more.
>
> Although I opposed the Iraq adventure from well before its start, I've come to believe that the American lives lost were not, in fact, lost completely in vain if the war is a "failure." If the "liberation" of Iraq were the stunning, apparently low-cost success its advocates sold to the American public in 2002-3, it would have emboldened the architects of that policy to expand their dreams for a Pax Americana imposed by military dominance. I view the lost soldiers as giving their lives to restore the use of American military might to a scale more commensurate with genuine US security needs. It's tragic that a cost in blood was required to awaken Americans to the self-defeating character of the neoconservative fantasy. Why honor the sacrifice of our fighting men and women any less simply because those losses may have worked to save lives in a manner rather different from the one some of them and their political leaders envisioned?
in my grief and anger, i had not considered the point that you're making. thank you for sharing your perspective upon the way.......thank you very much, pat
Posted by fayeroe on January 26, 2007, at 8:03:50
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq, posted by Honore on January 26, 2007, at 7:45:33
> You have my deepest condolences, Pat.
>
> Not that it's ever much comfort, but your nephew was doing a tremendous amount of good. We have to thank him and you and your family, and grieve for your sacrifice.
>
> He didn't die for nothing, more so because he was saving lives. It's just tragic that this had to happen--
>
> Honore
>
>thank you, Honore.....i read the comments on the army memorial page today and you're right about his impact. many people around him valued him very much.........thank you,pat
Posted by Deneb on January 26, 2007, at 14:48:29
In reply to nephew killed in Iraq, posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 10:30:51
(((((((((((((((((((Pat))))))))))))))))))))
I'm sorry for your lost.
Deneb*
Posted by fayeroe on January 26, 2007, at 21:38:11
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq » fayeroe, posted by Deneb on January 26, 2007, at 14:48:29
thank you deneb.......we're having a pretty hard time of it right now........ pat
Posted by sdb on January 27, 2007, at 6:38:12
In reply to nephew killed in Iraq, posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 10:30:51
> helicopter crash. i am between grief and intense anger........talk to me.....
Hi fayeroe
I wish you and your family heartily well. Wherever your nephew is it's very likely that he is at the best place now. The best place that he deserves.
sdb
Posted by fayeroe on January 27, 2007, at 8:46:58
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq, posted by sdb on January 27, 2007, at 6:38:12
> > helicopter crash. i am between grief and intense anger........talk to me.....
>
> Hi fayeroe
>
> I wish you and your family heartily well. Wherever your nephew is it's very likely that he is at the best place now. The best place that he deserves.
>
> sdb
>
my oldest daughter spoke at an NA meeting last night about gratitude and she used Brian as an example. she talked about how grateful she is that he was able to save the lives he did and teach a lot while there. he also perfected something that helped keep the soldiers from becoming dehydrated. so, i'm trying to looking at it in a more positive manner now.....thanks you so much, pat
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2007, at 11:56:59
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq, posted by fayeroe on January 27, 2007, at 8:46:58
I'm so sorry, Pat. I can't even imagine.
He sounds like a fine young man, and perfecting that procedure is a wonderful thing to testify to how much he helped others. I wish he'd had a chance for a long lifetime to contribute.
Posted by fayeroe on January 29, 2007, at 17:26:11
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2007, at 11:56:59
> I'm so sorry, Pat. I can't even imagine.
>
> He sounds like a fine young man, and perfecting that procedure is a wonderful thing to testify to how much he helped others. I wish he'd had a chance for a long lifetime to contribute.thank you, Dinah.....he has an eleven year old son and a lovely wife, Jane...
i agree with you....he had a lot more to offer the world......xoxopat
Posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2007, at 17:59:18
In reply to Re: nephew killed in Iraq » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on January 29, 2007, at 17:26:11
Oh Pat, I'm so sorry. I have no other words. Please know that you and your family are in my prayers.
((((((Pat))))))))
namaste
gg
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