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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay on December 5, 2006, at 0:16:40
After just over a half of a year of right-wing, nasty federal Conservative policies, the Liberal Party of Canada has elected a very strong, kind, super-smart center-left leader. His name is Stéphane Dion. Even in his first day in Parliament, he blasted the Conservatives for their right-wing tax cuts and reduction of social programs. All in the while Canada has a 15 billion dollar surplus in the bank. There will be an election possibly this Spring or Summer, and momentum is strongly building for Dion and his new-faced party. Thank God I am a Canadian! :-)
Jay
Posted by Dinah on December 5, 2006, at 6:28:00
In reply to Canada is on the comeback..., posted by Jay on December 5, 2006, at 0:16:40
Are you saying that conservative policies are nasty? Are you saying that conservatives are nasty? Do you think I'm a nasty person? Would you think I was nasty if you knew I was conservative?
I'm conservative, or at least more conservative than liberal.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2006, at 10:15:01
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Jay, posted by Dinah on December 5, 2006, at 6:28:00
Jay, I had the same questions as Dinah.
I strongly disagree with many of the views held by my liberal (or at least far more liberal than me ) friends and relatives, but as passionately as I may feel, I don't see them as nasty. It would squash any further open and educational debate, I think.
Posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 18:21:41
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback..., posted by 10derHeart on December 5, 2006, at 10:15:01
What we need is a conservatism that is not simply a cover for rightwing politics or neoliberal interests.
The election of Kevin Rudd as leader of the Australian Labor Party offers hope that the ALP will at least be able to articulate conservative values, particularly the value of people and community.
Rudd himself had a very financially poor upbringing and is able to attack Howard and the Liberals from (what I see as) a conservative position.
Although I have some doubts about what these words actually mean.
Posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 18:26:17
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback..., posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 18:21:41
the only people who are conservative these days are lefties. I'm not sure that liberals (bleeding heart or not) are the same as lefties.
One of the things I want to do here is to understand the different ways politics is understood in different countries.
Posted by Declan on December 5, 2006, at 18:32:03
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Jay, posted by Dinah on December 5, 2006, at 6:28:00
Forgive thse multiple posts.
One of the problems here is the way the Liberal Party has changed from being a broad church coalition of small l liberals and social conservatives.
The wets (we might call them) have lost out.
That's why a lot of the opposition to the Howard Government comes from people who are natural liberal voters.These party names must be confusing to Canadians, with their Liberal and Conservative parties.
Posted by Dunder on December 6, 2006, at 6:22:13
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Jay, posted by Dinah on December 5, 2006, at 6:28:00
I think it is a simplification to describe conservative policies as nasty. So called left leaning liberal parties are equally of distasteful policies at times. However, I do often feel threatened and distressed by some of the principles that conservatives hold dear. In particular I feel threatened by what I see as the individualism they seem to promote and their apparent lack of concern for less fortunate people. Was it Magaret Thatcher who said "There is no such thing as society"?
In my view, many of the ills in modern life are down to this rampant individualism, e.g. environmental destruction, break down of communities and extended families, poor mental health. Maybe I am now over simplifying but I can't help often seeing conservatism as a threat to the values that are important to me.
Having said all that I certainly don't believe that conservatives are necessarily nasty. I think they truly believe that their way is the best for the good of all. But in my view, the effects of conservative policies can be nasty for many people on the edges of "society".
Dunder
PS. Why do I sense a block coming my way again. In my defense I would just like to say that I have only stated how I feel about this matter and I have tried to be sensitive to the feelings of people that support conservative policies. It is only my interpretation of how I see conservatism and is therefore tainted by my own prejudices. Why, oh why do I risk posting on this board when opinions can be punished so harshly???
Posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 12:27:35
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback..., posted by Dunder on December 6, 2006, at 6:22:13
It seems sensible to me that conservatism should seek to preserve those aspects of community which appear and thrive without government intervention, but that need to be preserved from corporations which, after all, only exist by reason of government regulation.
We can make these words mean anything we want, I know. The conservatism of Edmund Burke and Quentin Hogg is OK, but then the liberalism of that Mills chap, whoever he was, (not C. Wright, the other one) was OK too. It's just that the last 20 years have been bad, and the last 10 worse.
Posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 12:53:33
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Dunder, posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 12:27:35
It might be Mill, not Mills, and there's an elder and therefore a younger, but who the hell is he? Age related cognitave impairment.
Posted by Dunder on December 6, 2006, at 13:02:46
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Dunder, posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 12:27:35
> It seems sensible to me that conservatism should seek to preserve those aspects of community which appear and thrive without government intervention, but that need to be preserved from corporations which, after all, only exist by reason of government regulation.
>
> We can make these words mean anything we want, I know. The conservatism of Edmund Burke and Quentin Hogg is OK, but then the liberalism of that Mills chap, whoever he was, (not C. Wright, the other one) was OK too. It's just that the last 20 years have been bad, and the last 10 worse.Declan, I wish I had a bit of your knowledge and ability to analyse and put forward balanced thoughts so clearly. My post always end up having the subtlety of a brick. I need to ditch some of the old childish black and white thinking for sure. Anyway, its always good to read your insightful posts. Cheers
Posted by verne on December 6, 2006, at 14:31:21
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Declan, posted by Declan on December 6, 2006, at 12:53:33
The British philosopher who wrote "On Liberty" and warned about the "tyranny of the majority". Not everything can be decided by a vote; we need to protect individual rights and so forth. Lived in the 1800's.
He was one of the earliest "feminists" and champions of womens rights. His father (John Mill?) was also famous in sociology or philosophy.
That's about all I can remember offhand.
verne
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2006, at 0:44:23
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback..., posted by Dunder on December 6, 2006, at 6:22:13
> PS. Why do I sense a block coming my way again. In my defense I would just like to say that I have only stated how I feel about this matter and I have tried to be sensitive to the feelings of people that support conservative policies.
Thanks, I think you're getting the hang of it. :-)
Bob
Posted by dessbee on December 15, 2006, at 13:56:36
In reply to Canada is on the comeback..., posted by Jay on December 5, 2006, at 0:16:40
Wow, 15 billion dollar surplus, that's alot of mental health care right there.
In US Bush would probably send the money to support some stupid war ;-)
Posted by dessbee on December 15, 2006, at 16:01:09
In reply to Re: Canada is on the comeback... » Jay, posted by dessbee on December 15, 2006, at 13:56:36
Hope I didn't offend any Bush supporter.
I better stay out of politics ;-)
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2006, at 2:09:17
In reply to Re: Sorry Dr. Bob, posted by dessbee on December 15, 2006, at 16:01:09
Posted by Squiggles on March 1, 2007, at 17:46:02
In reply to Canada is on the comeback..., posted by Jay on December 5, 2006, at 0:16:40
Hi,
I decided to pay a visit here after being
away, as I was just reading some of the
stories regarding casualties (US and Iraq);
I was wondering if the B name could be
uttered, because Dr. Bob gave a "be civil"
alert once. So, I am glad to see some awareness
here on the posts.And yes, Dion is a good man, imho. He is educated, rational and I hope, just. I find his emphasis on the environment a bit unbalanced--i.e. too strong in comparison to other problems plaguing the country.
Squiggles
This is the end of the thread.
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