![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:24
Posted by Quintal on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:24
In reply to New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by ed_uk on November 20, 2006, at 14:45:34
This may not be directly related to the article above, but a friend recently told me that people who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia are restricted/banned from travelling abroad from the UK and have difficulty entering the US.
Anyone know if this is true?
Q
Posted by med_empowered on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:25
In reply to New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by ed_uk on November 20, 2006, at 14:45:34
wow...creepy. very, very creepy. Especially the parts about getting rid of "finite confinement orders". So..basically...instead of saying "You, patient X, are to be held for 30 days" the deal is now "You, patient X, will be held until someone decides otherwise". Is that correct? If so...that's ridiculous. Its substituting psychiatric opinion for what is essentially a legal issue (say what you will about "treatment," depriving someone of their liberty without proof of any criminal behavior is something that needs to be regulated by someone other than mental health officials, unless we're going back to the days of 10year long hospital stays)
Whats the deal with this legislation? Current research I've seen coming out of the UK also deals with cognitive behavioral therapy for schizophrenia and the ill-effects of psychiatric meds on people...why this push for Draconian Mental Health laws? Are people in the UK terrified of the "unwell" all of a sudden?
Posted by Phillipa on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:25
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by med_empowered on November 20, 2006, at 22:24:22
Wow is the UK going backwards? Love phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:25
In reply to New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by ed_uk on November 20, 2006, at 14:45:34
This is wholly subjective and probably I've got it all wrong, but in essence the laws are about forcing people to take their medications so that they're not a 'risk' to society. Medication is better than having people in long-term therapy, appropriate residentual settings, proper care etc. Their attidude is 'dope 'em up'. Well anyway, thats how I see it, and well, I could be wrong.
The differences in mental health are so apparent now I'm in Finland. Here, I see a pyschiatrist no problem (and its virtually free, well I had to pay about 3 bucks/3.5 Euros) Anyway, I couldn't believe it! She's talking about long-term pyschodynamic therapy for me, meaning 2 years at 2 sessions a week. Plus, this is will be mostly paid for my the state mental health services. I honestly can't believe it. In the UK you're extremely lucky to get some simple counselling and even thats often for only 6-10 sessions. Its a whole different world here. In the UK it was an extreme battle just to see a (useless) psychiatrist in the first place on the NHS!!
The pyschiatrist here in Finland is actually coming in just to see me on Monday. She doesn't even work mondays. She's thinking about my medication until then, and psychodynamic therapists how can speak english. Can you believe it? I'm like 'wow'.
Anyway, its a question of cash in the UK system. There simply isn't enough.
Posted by bassman on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by ed_uk on November 20, 2006, at 14:45:34
I thought they put people with mental disorders in stocks in the UK, so people could make fun of them. I wonder if this is a step in the right direction...:>}
Posted by ed_uk on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on November 20, 2006, at 17:44:33
Hi Q
>a friend recently told me that people who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia are restricted/banned from travelling abroad from the UK
I've never heard anything like that!
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by med_empowered on November 20, 2006, at 22:24:22
Hi Med
>Are people in the UK terrified of the "unwell" all of a sudden?
I do think that fear of violence has something to do with it. The new laws do seem to be aimed at increasing control of people with mental health problems.
Here is some info from Rethink (formerly the National Schizophrenia Fellowship). You will find it interesting........
Personally, I am particularly concerned that many people (living in the community) will be forced to take antipsychotics against their will.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 21, 2006, at 5:53:13
Hi Meri
The mental health care in Finland sounds very different to the UK! Do you speak Finnish? It looks like a very complicated language.
Ed
Posted by Quintal on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2006, at 14:54:53
>I've never heard anything like that!
Nor had I. It seems draconian, but when I consider the possibility of someone flipping out on a plane and possibly turning violent I can see the wisdom of laws requiring an assessment from a pdoc, and ensuring they have adequate supplies of medication if necessary.
It may well be something she read in 'Women's Own' magazine and picked up wrong. She's schizophrenic and very paranoid. I have a feeling she was told this by her pdoc though.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on November 21, 2006, at 15:49:53
Hi Q
It doesn't sound right to me!
Ed
Posted by Quintal on November 22, 2006, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2006, at 17:15:14
I admit it does seem unjust to people with mental illness at first glance. It sounds pretty much in line with those other proposals though. Considering the authorities seem to be tightening all of the mental health laws about people being released unmedicated even at home in the community, how could they justify allowing the same people to go abroad without similar precautions?
I'll ask her where she first heard it mentioned.
Q
Posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 3:09:53
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » med_empowered, posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2006, at 15:04:05
> Hi Med
>
> >Are people in the UK terrified of the "unwell" all of a sudden?
>
> I do think that fear of violence has something
> to do with it.
>My understanding it that as a group those with MI
are unlikely to be violent towards others.> Personally, I am particularly concerned that
> many people (living in the community) will be >forced to take antipsychotics against their will.
>
> EdI agree. It is a slippery slope which could lead to "in for a penny, in for a pound" thinking. Can't get a long with neighbors ? Medicate.
Complain about the dogs barking ? Medicate.What a can of worms ! In the US we did not have a significant problem with homelessness until the AP's came out in the 50's. That emptied the instutions of most of their patients. The insane could be made sane with a pill. However, for many of these people there was no one around to make sure they would stay on their medications.
Those without a support structure were likely to stop their meds.Today, sadly, a majority of the homeless are significantly mentally ill with schizophrenia, other psychotic disorders, or bipolar.
At a fraction of the cost of a war we could provide coaches and counselors to work with the homeless or others who lack a support structure.
Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 10:44:58
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2006, at 17:15:14
Hi Ed,
My friend says she heard about this problem from a fellow inpatient on the psychiatric ward who had booked a holiday to Orlando despite having a psychotic episode the previous month. Her pdoc had asked her to postpone it until she had been stabilized on meds for a few months and threatened to contact her GP and the passport office if she refused. I don't know whether they can actually do this? Do you think it was an idle threat?
Q
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 26, 2006, at 13:35:31
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 10:44:58
I dunno but it sounds *terrible*. I bet the holiday would do her a world of good. You don't hear about cancer sufferers being denied holidays do you? I wonder what they'd do if you had two passports. I have dual nationality you see, and I have two passports. If they took away my British one it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference as I could travel on my Finnish one.
Anyway. Shudder. It remains me of Victorian England...
M
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 26, 2006, at 13:36:20
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK, posted by notfred on November 24, 2006, at 3:09:53
Good points well made notfred.
Posted by mindevolution on January 30, 2007, at 6:16:32
In reply to Re: New Mental Health Laws in UK » med_empowered, posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2006, at 15:04:05
what are the biggest problems with the mental health system:
* suedo scientific diagnosis
* suedo legal tribunals
* quasi scientific drug research with drug companies controlling the data, the studies the academics and the politics
* poor drug approval policies
* inability to sue the state for malpractice due to sequestration of medical records
* and treatment regimes that start with the most damaging treatments available rather than the least damaging.exactly which of the glaringly obvious problems in the mental health system did the reforms address?
me
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Politics | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.