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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fayeroe on October 27, 2006, at 15:14:10
http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/forgotten_wounded_20060117/
this is a rather graphic piece. for me it is a very important article about the ones who come home wounded...and we never see them........
Posted by Declan on October 27, 2006, at 17:45:38
In reply to The Forgotten Wounded of Iraq, posted by fayeroe on October 27, 2006, at 15:14:10
They learned that (at least) from Vietnam. I wonder what the ratio of wounded is to dead, both for coalition troops and for Iraqis generally.
As an Australian I am concious of the advice our government gave to the US, both in Vietnam and Iraq. Certainly the Australian Governments have learned nothing and most of the Australian people don't care. Maybe the Australian Government felt it had nothing to learn?
Posted by fayeroe on October 27, 2006, at 18:28:39
In reply to They know how to manage the news » fayeroe, posted by Declan on October 27, 2006, at 17:45:38
> They learned that (at least) from Vietnam. I wonder what the ratio of wounded is to dead, both for coalition troops and for Iraqis generally.
>
> As an Australian I am concious of the advice our government gave to the US, both in Vietnam and Iraq. Certainly the Australian Governments have learned nothing and most of the Australian people don't care. Maybe the Australian Government felt it had nothing to learn?i don't know what the ratio is.i'd be interested in knowing that. wonder how we could find out?
i feel so wretched about this on many different levels. i don't believe that we should be there. i don't think that we're wanted there. my SIL just came back and has PTSD and is having a helluva time with it.
i sure don't feel as if the American people learned very much.....from Vietnam.
everytime someone is wounded or killed, it has a ripple effect. pretty soon it has affected an entire community. you first think of family, close friends but it's much more than that. now it's affecting our country and i hope that it will count for something soon.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2006, at 23:26:15
In reply to They know how to manage the news » fayeroe, posted by Declan on October 27, 2006, at 17:45:38
> Certainly the Australian Governments have learned nothing and most of the Australian people don't care.
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others (such as supporters of the Australian Governments and the Australian people).
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceYou might want to consider asking another poster to be your "civility buddy" and to preview your posts before you submit them.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: According to the new system:
previous block: 2 weeks
period of time since previous block: 17 weeks
uncivil toward a particular individual or group: yes
particularly uncivil: no
different type of incivility: no
clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
provoked: no
uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
already archived: noIf we take 17 weeks, divide by 10, and round, that's a reduction of 2 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that takes you back to 0. And if we go from there, that's 1 week.
Posted by zeugma on October 28, 2006, at 14:04:03
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Declan, posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2006, at 23:26:15
> > Certainly the Australian Governments have learned nothing and most of the Australian people don't care.
>
> Please be sensitive to the feelings of others (such as supporters of the Australian Governments and the Australian people).>>
Interesting to urge sensitivity to the feelings of the Australian people while blocking an Australian.Perhaps the "supporters of the Australian people," and the Australian people themselves, are entirely distinct groups. A similar phenomenon seems to be occurring in America as well.
-z
>
> But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> You might want to consider asking another poster to be your "civility buddy" and to preview your posts before you submit them.
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
> PS: According to the new system:
>
> previous block: 2 weeks
> period of time since previous block: 17 weeks
> uncivil toward a particular individual or group: yes
> particularly uncivil: no
> different type of incivility: no
> clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
> provoked: no
> uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
> already archived: no
>
> If we take 17 weeks, divide by 10, and round, that's a reduction of 2 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that takes you back to 0. And if we go from there, that's 1 week.
Posted by tealady on October 28, 2006, at 21:37:54
In reply to Oceania » Dr. Bob, posted by zeugma on October 28, 2006, at 14:04:03
Nul groups are theoretically possible :)
That said there has usually been, I would have thought, a rather proud traditional of apathy enshrined in Aussies .. like who cares which party is in.. as long as they leave us alone:)
Occasionally , like at the time of the Vietnam war a few people get stirred up wnough to give a bit of a prod to the govt, but usually it sails along undisturbed by the pople and vica versa..
really quite a good idea,and way preferable to all these revolutions, massacres, military coups etc.
I think that's what dec meant.. I take it as a compliment!!That said, occasionally people do get roused up enough to do something if the govt gets too unfair and authoritarian etc.. like in the Eureka stockade
Hope it lasts as I perceive changes with the rapid immigration and the segratation greatly magnified by our "multicultralism" policy..which leads muslims(probably the main group at present) to be, in practise, segregatated from other Aussies, attending their own schools, churches, beliefs, values, cultures ..even down to family outings and socialising. Their kids aren't allowed to hang out with other "aussie" kids..restricted by the parents..at least as far as my kids have found so far.
It's happened before(like with the Germans who kept their own language and schools for a while), but never with such a vast difference in cultural values.
Posted by tealady on October 28, 2006, at 22:02:16
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Declan, posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2006, at 23:26:15
see above post re the healthy, almost patriotic apathy (don't care attitude)
plus add
no history of civil wars, bombings, .. just a healthy apathy and give everyone a fair go (as individuls) attitude..
appears to be lessening sadly
Posted by 10derHeart on October 30, 2006, at 21:16:05
In reply to Re: They know how to manage the news » Declan, posted by fayeroe on October 27, 2006, at 18:28:39
>>i don't know what the ratio is.i'd be interested in knowing that. wonder how we could find out?
There is a great deal of detailed information here:
Posted by Declan on November 4, 2006, at 13:24:26
In reply to Re: blocked for week » Declan, posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2006, at 23:26:15
In our little town 3000 people marched against the war before it happened. I've never met anyone who supported it. Ordinary people (here) care about the war, just as ordinary people in their dealings with each other are mostly really decent. Sections of the media (News Ltd) and the Government are for some reason unable to engage seriously and credibly with our committment. (600,000 deaths is serious stuff). And further, just before I made that post, I had been angered (I suppose) to read that before committing troops to Vietnam the US asked its allies their opinion. All were against except Australia. I doubt the advice given on Iraq was any wiser.
I hope that's civil. How might things have been done better? Frank and fearless advice.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2006, at 21:18:04
In reply to Rephrase and Discuss, posted by Declan on November 4, 2006, at 13:24:26
> I hope that's civil.
I think it was, thanks.
Bob
Posted by zeugma on November 6, 2006, at 19:26:06
In reply to Rephrase and Discuss, posted by Declan on November 4, 2006, at 13:24:26
> >
> I hope that's civil. How might things have been done better? Frank and fearless advice.>>The neocon Richard Perle has been giving frank and fearless advice lately, unfortunately I fear it means he and George Bush are not on civil terms with one another any longer.
And that saddens me. Frank and fearless advice should be able to be civilly spoken. In particular, Mr. Perle uses a word quite often, one that I myself have used, that has been been deemed not remotely civil.
My own frank fearless advice (unlike Mr. Perle's, not delivered with the wisdom of hindsight): Bring back the draft. The U.S. military forces cannot sustain the indefinite occupation of Fortress Mesopotamia without one, any more than Saigon's shadow government could have survived until 1975 without massive and general hemorrhaging of American blood.
I have seen the American soldiers' graves, it is a private and bitter experience of mine, LBJ could not have afforded his Vietnam dream without a draft, Mr. Bush will destroy the U.S. Army without one.
Murtha has given this frank and fearless advice before me, perhaps he has seen some of the same graves I have.
-z
>
>
Posted by zeugma on November 6, 2006, at 20:01:49
In reply to frank and fearless advice? » Declan, posted by zeugma on November 6, 2006, at 19:26:06
but really, anyone offering frank and fearless advice is only going to be stating the obvious, a Pentagon report from 1999 put at 400,000 the minimum of American soldiers needed for a successful occupation for Iraq.
-z
Posted by Declan on November 6, 2006, at 22:00:01
In reply to apology for redundancy » zeugma, posted by zeugma on November 6, 2006, at 20:01:49
Posted by zeugma on November 7, 2006, at 17:56:23
In reply to Child's Play? (nm) » zeugma, posted by Declan on November 6, 2006, at 22:00:01
yeah, occupation is child's play, particularly when you've all but flattened the country, a la Germany and Japan post WWII.
Otherwise, any reasonable person would foresee the potential for problems.
What really must gall someone are these so-called 'philanthropic wars.' Once the WMD were determined to be nonexistent, we justified our presence as humanitarian invaders.
In retrospect, I suppose, it's easy to see the incongruity.
-z
This is the end of the thread.
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