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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by karen_kay on October 5, 2006, at 12:57:58
what's going on with that handsome leader? i've missed something somewhere about him resigning??? did i dream it? why? and when is he going to be coming round to my house? anyone know (either question answered would be nice)? oh, i guess i have 5 questions
Posted by Dunder on October 6, 2006, at 8:51:53
In reply to mr blair,, posted by karen_kay on October 5, 2006, at 12:57:58
> what's going on with that handsome leader? i've missed something somewhere about him resigning??? did i dream it? why? and when is he going to be coming round to my house? anyone know (either question answered would be nice)? oh, i guess i have 5 questions
I'm not sure whether you are being serious or not. Unfortunately (in my opinion - I don't wish to offend anyone or get blocked again) he has not resigned yet. In my opinion, I feel that he should have resigned a long time ago given that he has acted as a war criminal according to international law. If he had already done so then maybe he would have time to hang out at your house, well that is if he could find time between his Clintonesque lecture tours that I am certain that he will be doing when he does finally resign.
Posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 16:00:44
In reply to Re: mr blair,, posted by Dunder on October 6, 2006, at 8:51:53
Since the idea here is support and education I would like to say that I do not feel unsupported by the previous post.
Mr Blair does look very shiney, even quite brittle. Perhaps he's worried about his long term reputation? I dunno. He's the mystery one.
I *suppose* you could say (if you felt inclined) that he has (in some small way) attempted to inject a (small) measure of magnanimity into the foreign policy of the West.
Posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 17:50:05
In reply to Re: mr blair, » Dunder, posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 16:00:44
Interestingly this is the first set of leaders in my lifetime whom you can insult by listing their virtues.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 8, 2006, at 13:27:19
In reply to Re: mr blair,, posted by Dunder on October 6, 2006, at 8:51:53
> I don't wish to offend anyone or get blocked again
>
> In my opinion, I feel that he should have resigned a long time ago given that he has acted as a war criminal according to international law.Thanks for trying not to offend anyone. But even though it's qualified, I'm not sure I'd consider:
> he has acted as a war criminal
to be sensitive to the feelings of those who support him. So keeping in mind that it tends to be more civil to talk about how you feel than what someone else did, could you please rephrase that?
FYI, there's a nice discussion of I-statements at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dunder on October 9, 2006, at 6:34:22
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dunder, posted by Dr. Bob on October 8, 2006, at 13:27:19
> > I don't wish to offend anyone or get blocked again
> >
> > In my opinion, I feel that he should have resigned a long time ago given that he has acted as a war criminal according to international law.
>
> Thanks for trying not to offend anyone. But even though it's qualified, I'm not sure I'd consider:
>
> > he has acted as a war criminal
>
> to be sensitive to the feelings of those who support him. So keeping in mind that it tends to be more civil to talk about how you feel than what someone else did, could you please rephrase that?
>
> FYI, there's a nice discussion of I-statements at:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobDear Dr Bob,
I believe I was very careful with my wording. It is not about my opinion in this case. According to international law it is illegal to attack another country unless as an act of self defence. The UN determined this was not the case with the invasion of Iraq. I am no expert in international law but I think that it is clear that if you break the law with respect to waging war on another country then that does make you a war criminal. I guess you could argue that this is a matter of opinion depending on whether you believe that international law should be determined via the UN or whether the most powerful nations should decide what is legal.
Maybe I should have said that "as a supporter of multilateralism and the UN I believe that Tony Blair has acted as a war criminal according to international law".
I sincerely would not wish to offend anyone here.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 9, 2006, at 8:55:28
In reply to Re: please rephrase that t'Dr Bob, posted by Dunder on October 9, 2006, at 6:34:22
bob has a tendency to say 'sometimes the truth can be uncivil'.
e.g., it might be true that x is a liar but it is still considered uncivil to say so. it might be true that x is lazy and fat but it is still considered uncivil to say so.
maybe we should wait for the results of the trial...
there is going to be a trial...isn't there?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 11, 2006, at 23:46:07
In reply to Re: please rephrase that t'Dr Bob, posted by Dunder on October 9, 2006, at 6:34:22
> I believe I was very careful with my wording. It is not about my opinion in this case.
>
> Maybe I should have said that "as a supporter of multilateralism and the UN I believe that Tony Blair has acted as a war criminal according to international law".Thanks for being careful. But sometimes it can be uncivil to report legal opinions, or even findings. Could you give it another try? How does what he's done make you feel? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dunder on October 12, 2006, at 7:11:50
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dunder, posted by Dr. Bob on October 11, 2006, at 23:46:07
> > I believe I was very careful with my wording. It is not about my opinion in this case.
> >
> > Maybe I should have said that "as a supporter of multilateralism and the UN I believe that Tony Blair has acted as a war criminal according to international law".
>
> Thanks for being careful. But sometimes it can be uncivil to report legal opinions, or even findings. Could you give it another try? How does what he's done make you feel? Thanks,
>
> BobHow about: "I feel hurt, angry, upset and ashamed of my nationality because of the actions of my government and prime minister with respect to the invasion of Iraq."
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 18:49:17
In reply to Re: please rephrase that, posted by Dunder on October 12, 2006, at 7:11:50
For
1. Tampa
2. SIEV X
3. Iraq
4. Matters pertaining.
Posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 18:53:13
In reply to Feeling ashamed of the government » Dunder, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 18:49:17
5. Detention camps in the desert.
6. Immigration policy.
7. Shamelessly using innocent individuals as pawns.
8. Adopting an ends justifies the means approach.
Posted by Declan on October 13, 2006, at 4:24:31
In reply to Forgot to mention, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 18:53:13
Not immigration. I meant refugees. A signicant proportion of Australians finds our treatment of refugees unkind and unstraightforward.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 2006, at 0:13:38
In reply to Re: please rephrase that, posted by Dunder on October 12, 2006, at 7:11:50
> How about: "I feel hurt, angry, upset and ashamed of my nationality because of the actions of my government and prime minister with respect to the invasion of Iraq."
I think that's fine, thanks for working with me on this.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 2006, at 0:13:43
In reply to Forgot to mention, posted by Declan on October 12, 2006, at 18:53:13
> 7. Shamelessly using innocent individuals as pawns.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is to be sensitive to the feelings of others (such as those who support your government), could you please rephrase that?
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceYou might want to consider asking another poster to be your "civility buddy" and to preview your posts before you submit them.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Declan on October 16, 2006, at 0:37:29
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Declan, posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 2006, at 0:13:43
OK, sure. It can come under one of the others , which is 'adopting an ends-justifies-the means approach to politics and people'.
I'm thinking of our treatment of refugees, some of whom have been sent to their deaths by our government.
Interestingly church people and others are following some of them up.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 2006, at 1:25:39
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Declan on October 16, 2006, at 0:37:29
This is the end of the thread.
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