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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by AuntieMel on September 13, 2006, at 12:30:10
In reply to Re: Why not feel what you feel? » llrrrpp, posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2006, at 8:46:11
1979. I was in NYC with my new boyfriend. We couldn't get into the restaraunt in the towers because we were in jeans, so we went to the observation deck instead.
On the way up the (crowded) elevator he said:
"I had a really good time last night. What did you say your name was again?"
We're still together.....
Posted by AuntieMel on September 13, 2006, at 14:23:25
In reply to Re: My memory of the towers » alexandra_k, posted by AuntieMel on September 13, 2006, at 12:30:10
Posted by finelinebob on September 13, 2006, at 21:02:48
In reply to A *different* take on this 9/11 stuff..., posted by Jay on September 11, 2006, at 22:24:54
The Onion unfortunately left out the insurance companies, who sure are happy to take our money, make themselves richer for it, but then refuse to honor the bargain should they be called to task.
Yeah, it's a cynical article, but particularly with the memorial quite apropos. If the people responsible could have been decisive and **acted**, then what I always thought was a fitting memorial might have been finished within cost limits ... lol, one of the wonderful things they like to debate here in NYC -- how much cost is too much for a memorial?
Posted by SLS on September 14, 2006, at 11:27:53
In reply to Re: A *different* take on this 9/11 stuff..., posted by finelinebob on September 13, 2006, at 21:02:48
> If the people responsible could have been decisive and **acted**
I think Larry Silverstein has probably been decisive enough, but he has been frustrated and thwarted by insurance companies, regulatory commissions, various committes, and a bunch of other stuff.
- Scott
Posted by finelinebob on September 14, 2006, at 23:30:30
In reply to Re: A *different* take on this 9/11 stuff..., posted by SLS on September 14, 2006, at 11:27:53
> > If the people responsible could have been decisive and **acted**
>
> I think Larry Silverstein has probably been decisive enough, but he has been frustrated and thwarted by insurance companies, regulatory commissions, various committes, and a bunch of other stuff.A number of the "players" in this game like to point fingers his way, but I always admired him because from day 1 he said he intended on rebuilding the Towers. About a month after 9/11, all the pols and pundits felt it safe enough to open their mouths and talk about how rebuilding would be a nice gesture but there's the money and the problems about buildings more than about 55 stories high and yada yada yada. Then the Post and the Daily News had different polls published on the same day that said New Yorkers overwhelmingly (better than 90%) wanted to rebuild the Towers or something close to them.
And the pols and pundits all changed their tunes.
It just felt so true to what it means to be a New Yorker -- rebuild the Towers just one story taller, then say "come try that again, I got a one-way ticket to 'Paradise' with your name on it".
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2006, at 11:16:31
In reply to A *different* take on this 9/11 stuff..., posted by Jay on September 11, 2006, at 22:24:54
> Bush wanted to spend more time on the Ranch, I guess.
>
> -Amnesty International has put America on par with countries like Iran because of the use of such things as torture, secret courts..prisoner for life with no trial..etc.Please respect the views of others (such as supporters of Bush and Americans) and be sensitive to their feelings.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 17:09:47
In reply to Re: please be civil » Jay, posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2006, at 11:16:31
er...
> > Bush wanted to spend more time on the Ranch, I guess.
i know i'd sure as hell want to spend more time at the ranch if i had a ranch. i don't really see how that is problematic...
> > -Amnesty International has put America on par with countries like Iran...
um... isn't saying this is unsupportive of america kind of being... unsupportive of iran (and countries like it)? i just mean... what is wrong with being 'on a par with', what are the alternatives? 'better than'?
i don't see how this is disrespectful to bush or america
Posted by Declan on September 16, 2006, at 23:12:49
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 17:09:47
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 23:30:34
In reply to Unfortunately we have no Iranians here (nm) » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on September 16, 2006, at 23:12:49
Posted by Declan on September 18, 2006, at 13:55:08
In reply to Re: i wonder why... (nm) » Declan, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 23:30:34
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2006, at 6:18:39
In reply to You might expect the odd muslim from the west? (nm), posted by Declan on September 18, 2006, at 13:55:08
I was tempted to convert. I like the full black thing with the face covering.
I like it very much :-)
But I don't suppose you convert just to wear the cool clothes :-(
Posted by Declan on September 20, 2006, at 16:17:19
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west?, posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2006, at 6:18:39
Well, women have got the burqa but men could do it too. Wear some kinda hood with maybe a sign on the back saying something like 'We're proud Australians and ashamed to show our faces'
Posted by Jost on September 21, 2006, at 11:11:11
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west?, posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2006, at 6:18:39
Do you really find the burqa appealing? In what way?
I've heard that it's very hard to see where you're going with a full burqa on. Maybe that was propaganda of some kind, but maybe not.
Have you read the book by the Moslem woman in the Netherlands who was working with the Dutch Filmmaker Van Gogh, who was killed because of the film he made about Islam?
Someone recommended it. It gives an alternative view from inside Islam. I'd actually like to see it. I checked just now on Amazon and can't find it-- I don't know her name. I'll see if I can get that.
Jost
Posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 19:08:21
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 21, 2006, at 11:11:11
Yeah, I dunno much about Islam, but I did read the Little Green Book by the Ayotollah. There are 4 things that are impure, I remember, the last of which is the sweat of the excrement eating camel.
Posted by Jost on September 21, 2006, at 21:44:37
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » Jost, posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 19:08:21
That's quite a revelation, Declan. I'll keep it in mind.
Wonder why that stuck with you? Gee, wish you remembered the first three.
Jost
Posted by Declan on September 22, 2006, at 0:36:43
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » Declan, posted by Jost on September 21, 2006, at 21:44:37
I've never seen this camel. It might be a bit of a worry. One of the first 3 was booze, of course.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 2:21:46
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 21, 2006, at 11:11:11
> Do you really find the burqa appealing? In what way?
If I was wearing one of those I don't think I'd mind people looking at me.
I don't much like being embodied. Thats partly why I like the internet. You interact with people on the basis of what people say rather than on the basis of what people look like.
Of course there would be information about height and probably gender and so forth...
But I lament the state of current society where people go around half naked. I find it to be... I kind of want to say 'culture shock' but it is my culture so I guess that isn't appropriate. But I do feel like... It isn't particularly appropriate. I don't know. I'm fairly conservative in some respects, I guess. But for personal preference... I'd rather wear one of those. But it probably isn't so appropriate to do it if you aren't of that religion and I'm not planning on believing in God anytime soon so... There it is. People would probably think I was taking the piss otherwise. Shame. I'm all for black too. Dunno. I just like them :-)
Posted by Jost on September 22, 2006, at 18:12:06
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » Jost, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 2:21:46
New York must be more conservative than where you live. People don't go around half naked here. Can't think of the last time I saw a half-naked, or even quarter-naked person on the street.
I'm fairly conservative in my own dress. Wearing a burqa, though, wouldn't make me feel less embodied--maybe even more embodied, and not necessarily comfortably so, unless I got used to it. I wonder if it might not be more difficult to maneuver in than some types of westernized clothes. Say, jeans and a shirt. Ease of maneuvering seems more unembodied than having to hold up a long robe, or craning around to compensate for no peripheral vision.
But then I don't wear various fashions that might expose me to taking smaller steps, watching for uneven spots in the pavement, or worrying about what was or wasn't visible if I did something.
That makes me feel about as unself-conscious about my physical self as I can be-- a state I mostly strive for. The main virtue of a burqa (to me, if there is one)-- would be keeping the sun out of your eyes, and being better than sunscreen or a hat for keeping you shaded from the sun-- But this seems balanced by the likelihood of one's being hot underneath it-- esp. since black is a hotter color than white.
I'm not sure-- it's all conjecture-- but I don't necessarily know if hiding is quite the same as not being embodied-- as opposed to trying to suppress an uncomfortable, but greater, sense of embodiment.
Jost
Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 19:27:26
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west?, posted by Jost on September 22, 2006, at 18:12:06
> New York must be more conservative than where you live. People don't go around half naked here.
I suppose it gets cold. And I suppose you guys aren't exactly on the beach - are you? I guess I'm super conservative. People wear short shorts and singlets. Halter tops. Stuff like that. To me... That is half naked.
But then I don't like wearing shorts... I don't even like wearing short sleeved t-shirts. I'd rather wear long sleeved t-shirts (I quite like ones with polo necks too) and slacks / jeans. I don't know...
> Ease of maneuvering seems more unembodied than having to hold up a long robe, or craning around to compensate for no peripheral vision.
I wonder if the peripheral vision is a function of how the head bit fits. Maybe some of them are fit so that they don't have such good peripheral vision. I can hardly see anyways... I guess it seems less embodied to me in the sense that I wouldn't be self conscious about my body. Though I guess if I were to wear one people would probably stare at me... But not at my body. So... I think I would feel less self conscious really...
Posted by Declan on September 22, 2006, at 20:17:50
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » Jost, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2006, at 19:27:26
"Show where you stand on Australian Values: wear the burqa for a day. Special prizes for blokes."
How about that?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2006, at 6:17:18
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on September 22, 2006, at 20:17:50
I don't have one unfortunately.
I really do like them...
Posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:09:45
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west?, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2006, at 6:17:18
Here's one, at a good price. Bet you can get it from the Aus or NZ ebay for less.
Jost
Posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:16:54
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west?, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2006, at 6:17:18
This is actually more what I think of as a burqa. Don't know.
I found a book about life under the Taliban on Ebay Australia, but it could be considered uncivil, so I won't link.
The cover shows another style of burqa face. Name of the book, if you want to check how that burqa would work, as far as seeing, is "My Forbidden Face" by Latifa.
It's really an interesting topic. I wonder how the custom evolved (historically-- I sort of know the rationale for it, at least the myth in the West).
Jost
Posted by Declan on September 23, 2006, at 17:01:33
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west? » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 23, 2006, at 11:16:54
You could make some money selling them at the markets here. They were selling toilet paper with the PMs face on it. Like those T shirts with Sedition printed on them, or did I just imagine them?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2006, at 18:25:16
In reply to Re: You might expect the odd muslim from the west?, posted by Declan on September 23, 2006, at 17:01:33
Ugh no. They weren't quite what I had in mind...
It can be hard to find a nice one. Photos are fairly hard to come by. I just realised they have probably become a symbol of all that is un-free and other and terrifying etc etc...
That wasn't what I was getting at though. This one is okay:
http://www.photographersdirect.com/news/200404images/9.jpg
But really, it might just possibly be the case that I'm getting them mixed up with this:
http://www.signsbyyou.com/images/decals/400c/SDEPSL3/Sports8/SAA6568.gif
So no I don't think I'm going to be walking around in fancy dress. Shame though ;-)
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