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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:08:21
there was an interesting article in Harper's a month ago on the subject of civilian-military relations, key at any time, and taking front stage during a war- and if wars are to be conducted pre-emptively per Bush's manifesto (I disagree so strongly with that doctrine but can only do so much, I can only resolve to NEVER vote for a candidate who espouses any version of this doctrine, be they Democrat, Republican, Green, independent), then it is going to be the CIA that determines who we bomb. And so what sort of intelligence we get must be trusted- Donald Rumsfeld shrugged off a disaffected former CIA analyst (awful lot of them around these days) with "I'm not in the intelligence business"- well, don't we want someone who is in, er, the intelligence business, to be in the intelligence business?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
House Intel Panel Chief Opposes Hayden By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
40 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - A leading Republican came out against the front-runner for CIA director, Gen. Michael Hayden, saying Sunday the spy agency should not have military leadership during a turbulent time among intelligence agencies.
Members of the Senate committee that would consider President Bush's nominee also expressed reservations, saying the CIA is a civilian agency and putting Hayden atop it would concentrate too much power in the military for intelligence matters.Bush was expected to nominate a new director as early as Monday to replace Porter Goss, who abruptly resigned on Friday.
But opposition to Hayden because of his military background is mounting on Capitol Hill, where he would face tough hearings in the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Despite a distinguished career at the Defense Department, Hayden would be "the wrong person, the wrong place at the wrong time," said the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Peter Hoekstra (news, bio, voting record), R-Mich.
"There is ongoing tensions between this premier civilian intelligence agency and DOD as we speak," Hoekstra said. "And I think putting a general in charge — regardless of how good Mike is — ... is going to send the wrong signal through the agency here in Washington but also to our agents in the field around the world," he told "Fox News Sunday."
If Hayden were to get the nomination, military officers would run the major spy agencies in the United States, from the ultra-secret National Security Agency to the Defense Intelligence Agency.
The Pentagon already controls more than 80 percent of the intelligence budget.
"You can't have the military control most of the major aspects of intelligence," said Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record) of California, who is on the Senate Intelligence Committee. The CIA "is a civilian agency and is meant to be a civilian agency," she said on ABC's "This Week."
A second committee member, GOP Sen. Saxby Chambliss (news, bio, voting record) of Georgia, added, "I think the fact that he is a part of the military today would be the major problem."
Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., mentioned fears the CIA would "just be gobbled up by the Defense Department" if Hayden were to take over.
The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee [Mr. Specter, subject of a long previous post of mine]said he would view a Hayden nomination as a way to get information from the Bush administration about its secretive domestic surveillance program, undertaken by the NSA when Hayden led that agency.
The warrantless monitoring covered electronic communications between people in the United States and other parties overseas with suspected terrorist links.
>>>>>>>>>-z
Posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:35:18
In reply to rare bipartisan moment in U.S. Congress, posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:08:21
I post this from a British paper. It is about why we do not have Osama bin Laden, whom we are ostensibly at war with, and why we are running up unprecedented amounts of money dreaming of oil profits in Iraq that have mostly been sabotaged by al Qaeda and other assorted makers of improvised explosive devices that could not believe their good fortune when Mr. Bush displayed remarkably poor aim for a straight shooter. Anyway, if blocked for this, irrelevant. I post this for the benefit of others who may be at a loss as to why this nation is behaving so irrationally.
>>>
Bush names general as saviour of the CIA's once-proud reputation
By Philip Sherwell in Washington
(Filed: 07/05/2006)The Central Intelligence Agency, already buffeted by turf wars, resignations and recriminations over September 11 and the war in Iraq, faces more turmoil this week when President George W Bush names its new head.
He seems certain to nominate Gen Michael Hayden, America's highest ranking military intelligence officer, to replace Porter Goss, 68, who was forced out on Friday in the latest upheaval to rock the organisation.
General Michael Hayden
Gen Hayden will be brought in to head an agency once synonymous with Cold War espionage but now racked by rifts and struggling to keep its feet in America's sprawling intelligence network."For way too long, the CIA sat back on its laurels," a senior Pentagon adviser told The Sunday Telegraph.
"They didn't have a whiff of 9/11, they got Iraq wrong, they didn't even predict the fall of the Soviet Union when the Cold War was supposed to be their specialist field. Any organisation with a track record like that deserves a shake-up."
Before he can start work, Gen Hayden, a popular and well-respected 36-year veteran in his field, must undergo a bruising confirmation in the Senate. Democrats have pledged to grill him for his role in overseeing and defending the controversial domestic eavesdropping programme authorised by Mr Bush without court warrants.
The latest shake-up comes as the United States grapples with a series of international crises, notably the conflict in Iraq, Iran's nuclear ambitions and the search for Osama bin Laden - where the CIA's expertise in human intelligence could be crucial.
If confirmed, Gen Hayden will inherit an organisation that has suffered an exodus of senior officers, a slide in morale and been plagued by leaks, which the White House regards as sign of revolt.
Once run by Mr Bush's father, the CIA is now just one of 16 agencies that report to John Negroponte, the director of national intelligence, a post created by the president in an attempt to co-ordinate intelligence-gathering.
This newspaper has learnt that British intelligence is so frustrated by the chaos at the agency that it now deals directly with Mr Negroponte's office and cuts out the CIA where important developments are concerned.
The latest curtailment of power of the once-supreme agency emerged last month in a speech Gen Hayden made in his current role as Mr Negroponte's deputy. He disclosed that Mr Negroponte's office would take control of the analysis of terror threats and would also be in charge of "liaison" relationships with foreign counterparts.
Long the preserve of the CIA, this role is a key source of intelligence but was neglected by Mr Goss, to the dismay of senior officers.
But behind the glass doors of the agency's headquarters in Langley, Virginia, the scorn for Mr Goss is matched among many operatives by anger that the agency was made the scapegoat for failures of intelligence on Iraq.
"George Tenet (Mr Goss's predecessor) may have said that the information on Saddam's weapons was a slam-dunk, but there was plenty of CIA reporting casting doubt on the intelligence. That was ignored in the White House and Pentagon because it did not fit in with their political plans and preconceptions," said a recently retired CIA officer.
Mr Negroponte forced Mr Goss's resignation after just 20 months in the job following a long-running power struggle between the two men.
Mr Goss had won few friends at the CIA with his abrasive management style, and nor was the Bush administration satisfied with his efforts to revamp the agency.
His departure comes days after it emerged that the CIA inspector general's office is investigating Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, whom Mr Goss appointed the agency's executive director. Mr Foggo attended private poker games at the Watergate Hotel with a defence contractor linked to a big congressional bribery scandal.
He has denied any wrongdoing, but told colleagues that he plans to resign this week. Mr Goss, a former Republican congressman in Florida, was appointed to halt the steady leak of damaging stories about Iraq, wiretapping and secret overseas prisons for terror suspects, but there was little evidence that he was making progress. Within the agency, he was regarded as a partisan Republican hitman.
"It won't be possible for Gen Hayden to turn things around quickly because the very culture of the agency had been damaged," a serving officer said.
"The result is that the agency has made no major breakthroughs in the war on terror over the last year. In particular, as a result of shifting resources, no major advances have been made in the hunt for bin Laden and Zarqawi."
>>
I have no explanation for human irrationality,
but I have given you some sign of how vile it is.Those dead or maimed in Iraq are victims of Bush's stupidity.
-z
>>
Posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:56:09
In reply to Mr. Bush's political career IMO is over, posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:35:18
Mr. Bush did exactly the same thing with FEMA that he did with the CIA- Balkanize it to the point where it was a non-functional organization, and then appoint individuals he saw as incompetent enough to not distract him from his ambitions, which hopefully will be checked by reasonable members of the U.S. Congress, and also by resolutions such as those enacted by Vermont.
Mr. Bush's stupidity knows no bounds, and neither does that of his advisers.
Iraq and New Orleans are object lessons. We do not need more.
-z
Posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 12:14:15
In reply to Mr. Bush's political career IMO is over, posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:35:18
in democracy:
>>[from above article:]
His departure comes days after it emerged that the CIA inspector general's office is investigating Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, whom Mr Goss appointed the agency's executive director. Mr Foggo attended private poker games at the Watergate Hotel with a defence contractor linked to a big congressional bribery scandal.He has denied any wrongdoing, but told colleagues that he plans to resign this week. ]]
Interesting choice of venue for poker games, that, it is said, included prostitutes (I suppose they were playing strip poker). Politicians who think they are playing poker, strip or otherwise, at the Watergate Hotel, show that they are in fact playing Russian roulette. I would think this would be self-evident, but Mr. Bush and his appointees have already demonstrated that lessons learned by others mean nothing to them. So it goes.
-z
Posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 16:12:37
In reply to amusing detail, proof that amnesia is rampant, posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 12:14:15
case in point: Iraq and Iran fought each other to a bloody standstill in the 80's. So we go in to Iraq and take it 'out'- not really, we remove saddam but turn it into chaos. And it is a bleeding sore, like this region was during that bloodiest of wars of the 80's, while the U.S. was invading Granada to restore American faith in the army shattered by Vietnam and Beirut:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
US general in Iraq warns Iran on bomb smuggling By Ibon Villelabeitia
2 hours, 39 minutes ago
FORT TARIK, Iraq (Reuters) - A senior U.S. general flew to Iraq's vast desert frontier with Iran on Sunday and vowed to stop what he said was the smuggling of bomb materials from Iran that is wreaking havoc among American troops.
Landing by helicopter under the gun sights of Iranian border guards perched on a watchtower across the frontier, Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli, the No. 2 U.S. general in Iraq, said U.S. and Iraqi forces securing the border will do "all we can" to stop roadside bombs.Known as improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, the home-made bombs are the largest cause of U.S. casualties in Iraq, where more than 2,400 American troops have been killed since the U.S.-led invasion to topple Saddam Hussein in 2003.
Washington and London say there is evidence components of sophisticated IEDs behind attacks on British forces in southern Iraq were produced in Iran, a charge denied by Tehran.
"We will do all we can to stop IEDs from coming into Iraq," Chiarelli told reporters in the border post of Fort Tarik, a spartan building surrounded by wastes of sun-drenched desert, once trodden by the caravans of the ancient Silk Route.
"We are very concerned about this border because of IEDs. The capabilities of the IEDs we are facing today are much more than what I saw in March 2004. We feel an urgency to stop components of IEDs that are coming from the borders."
Seeking to combat foreign fighters joining the anti-U.S. struggle in Iraq and the smuggling of weapons, the U.S. military has built and equipped 258 border forts around Iraq's porous borders with Iran, Syria, Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
Trained by U.S. and other foreign troops, there are more than 20,000 members of the Iraqi National Border Forces.
The United States says the overwhelming majority of foreign fighters are coming across the Syrian border.
TENSION WITH IRAN
Chiarelli said a dispute between Western powers and Iran over Tehran's nuclear ambitions has prompted U.S. and Iraqi forces to be more vigilant along the Iranian border.
U.S. Major Vic Lindemeyer, a border patrol adviser, said smugglers were using the area to transport explosive projectiles and AK-47s into Iraq.
"Rising tension with Iran has cautioned us to be concerned about illegal weapons and equipment in all borders," Chiarelli said, adding U.S. border agents who patrol the U.S.-Mexican border have been sent to Iraq to train the Iraqis.
The Iraqis at Fort Tarik said they had intercepted 1,972 illegals trying to cross from Iran, mostly Iranian pilgrims heading for the holy Shi'ite cities of Najaf and Kerbala.
The 60 Iraqis posted at Fort Tarik, where temperatures climb well above 50 degrees Celsius during the long Iraqi summer, share the building with a contingent of Ukrainian and Polish soldiers, who sweat profusely in their combat uniforms.
Chiarelli and his military entourage were treated to a Bedouin-style lunch of mounds of rice with pieces of sheep, which is eaten with the fingers and standing up.
In one of the turrets of the fort, an Iraqi border policeman fixed his binoculars on a watchtower just across the border manned by Iranian border guards.
He said the Iranians on the tower are normally quiet but today seemed nervous with the arrival of Chiarelli and the media in half a dozen Black Hawk helicopters.
"My job is to keep an eye on the border and defend my country," he said.
____________________________
OK, the Iraqi is defending his country. And we will defend the Iraqis. And if that means going to war with Iran so be it. One war leads to another. And if you think the national debt is bad now, imagine what it will be after a war with iran.And unnecessary. I think that this was planned by some Neocon fool who wants to go to war with the entire Persian Gulf region. Looked at that way, Osama's attack looks like a mere pretext as vaporous as saddam's WMD's. But this way of looking at it does explain why Saddam's in the dock and Osama is roaming the wilds of the Afghan border.
Unfortunately, I did see the smoke from the WTC. If I were a politician in the Bush Admin, I would have said what Richard Clarke said: al Qaeda did this. Take them out, at all costs.
Not what happened, from which I conclude that the Bush Admin is not patriotic, not worthy of my respect, not defending my country.
I will be blocked, but no matter.
One stupidity leads to another.
-z
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 9, 2006, at 3:19:42
In reply to Mr. Bush's political career IMO is over, posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 10:35:18
> Bush's stupidity.
Please respect the views of others, such as those who support Bush, and be sensitive to their feelings. But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: I'm trying out a new system:
previous block: 2 weeks
period of time since previous block: 5 weeks
particularly uncivil to other posters: no
different type of incivility: no
clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
provoked: no
uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
already archived: noIf we take 5 weeks, divide by 10, and round down, that's a reduction of 0 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that's 2 - 0 = 2 week. And if we double that, that's 4 weeks.
Posted by Estella on May 9, 2006, at 19:54:27
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks » zeugma, posted by Dr. Bob on May 9, 2006, at 3:19:42
(((((((((((z)))))))))
i'm sorry
i'll miss you
Posted by teejay on May 9, 2006, at 20:07:52
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks » zeugma, posted by Dr. Bob on May 9, 2006, at 3:19:42
>>>If we take 5 weeks, divide by 10, and round down, that's a reduction of 0 weeks. If we apply that to your previous block, that's 2 - 0 = 2 week. And if we double that, that's 4 weeks.
Surely its about time you opened a 'math' board!!!
Posted by teejay on May 9, 2006, at 20:14:53
In reply to and amnesia is sometimes not amusing, posted by zeugma on May 7, 2006, at 16:12:37
Give it up!!
You know as well as I do that if you criticise GWB regardless of how right your opinion may be, that you'll end up with a block.
Just do as I do and not post about politics here. Its pointless trying to discuss war or the reasons for war whilst being hobbled as we are here.
Tons of places on the web you can discuss the matter and as aggressively as you see fit.
See you in a few weeks.
Posted by Declan on May 10, 2006, at 0:16:47
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks » zeugma, posted by Dr. Bob on May 9, 2006, at 3:19:42
GWB
He's said to be as smart as a whip. Brilliant fundraiser. Strong sense of family (as we have seen). And faith too, of course. Loyal. Nothing uncivil yet.
Maybe we should stop, TJ; but the board was getting a bit more active there for a bit.
Declan
Posted by jakeman on May 10, 2006, at 21:42:44
In reply to Stop it or you'll go blind, posted by Declan on May 10, 2006, at 0:16:47
OK I'll stop here. But every day brings more news.
"House Passes Tax Cuts for Investors
By ANDREW TAYLOR
The Washington Post
Wednesday, May 10, 2006; 8:18 PMWASHINGTON -- A bill awarding tax relief to investors and 15 million taxpayers facing the alternative minimum tax passed the House on Wednesday, giving President Bush and his GOP allies on Capitol Hill a long-sought election year victory."
Notice I didn't say if this action was good or bad. No taking sides, just posting facts.
regard regards,
Jake> GWB
> He's said to be as smart as a whip. Brilliant fundraiser. Strong sense of family (as we have seen). And faith too, of course. Loyal. Nothing uncivil yet.
> Maybe we should stop, TJ; but the board was getting a bit more active there for a bit.
> Declan
Posted by tealady on May 11, 2006, at 0:43:58
In reply to Stop it or you'll go blind, posted by Declan on May 10, 2006, at 0:16:47
> GWB
> He's said to be as smart as a whip. Brilliant fundraiser. Strong sense of family (as we have seen). And faith too, of course. Loyal. Nothing uncivil yet.
> Maybe we should stop, TJ; but the board was getting a bit more active there for a bit.
> DeclanYa gotta admire the strength of the sense of purpose: a man with a mission.
Now guess who I'm talking about here?
Would it be Hitler?
Posted by Declan on May 11, 2006, at 2:15:23
In reply to Re: Stop it or you'll go blind » Declan, posted by tealady on May 11, 2006, at 0:43:58
Well Ben Bernanke (sp?) was telling Congress that it was important to balance the budget. This sounds familiar. Every time there is a centrist administration the right talks about the neccessity of balancing the budget. When the right gets in they cut taxes to the rich and boost military spending. That way when the centre gets in again, their options are limited. Wasn't that what Reagan did? Correct me if I'm wrong. Politics eh?
Declan
Posted by Declan on May 11, 2006, at 3:57:44
In reply to Re: Stop it or you'll go blind » Declan, posted by tealady on May 11, 2006, at 0:43:58
Posted by tealady on May 11, 2006, at 6:23:53
In reply to Don't mention the war :-) (nm) » tealady, posted by Declan on May 11, 2006, at 3:57:44
Posted by teejay on May 11, 2006, at 7:11:37
In reply to Re: Stop it or you'll go blind » Declan, posted by tealady on May 11, 2006, at 0:43:58
>>>>Ya gotta admire the strength of the sense of purpose: a man with a mission.
Now guess who I'm talking about here?
Would it be Hitler?........or TJ?
Posted by tealady on May 12, 2006, at 21:39:32
In reply to Re: Stop it or you'll go blind, posted by teejay on May 11, 2006, at 7:11:37
> >>>>Ya gotta admire the strength of the sense of purpose: a man with a mission.
>
> Now guess who I'm talking about here?
> Would it be Hitler?
>
>
>
> ........or TJ?:-)
This is the end of the thread.
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