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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by James K on January 25, 2006, at 23:12:35
If you've read, Alberto Gonzales, a US attorney general has decided to crack down on Kiddie Porn. Rather than ask an expert such as Andrew Vachss or Bruce Perry how he might do that, he has decided to subpoena the search queries and results of the major search engines. Google is the only one holding out. They are saving that information for their own uses. What I've been doing about it is -- Making multiple searches involving politicians names and unspeakable sex acts.
1. this is hilarious because no matter what you enter you get hits
2. this is meaningless, because I'm sure I'm missing an important point somewhere.
3. I'm probably going to end up on a list.
James K
Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:57:11
In reply to Google, Yahoo etc., posted by James K on January 25, 2006, at 23:12:35
I fully support google's fight against turning that information over.
It's bad enough that they're keeping track. It's much worse if what you look up can be turned over to the government.
Are there any search engines that don't keep track?
Privacy rights have never been that high a priority for me, but given recent events they're becoming one.
I really don't know what's going on with this world lately.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 27, 2006, at 17:42:30
In reply to Google, Yahoo etc., posted by James K on January 25, 2006, at 23:12:35
It is kiddie porn.
Anyone involved... Should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law IMO.
And those who view (I mean really view and download not people who accidentally end up somewhere the odd time)
They are supporting the industry
They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law IMHO
Posted by alexandra_k on January 27, 2006, at 17:44:12
In reply to Re: Google, Yahoo etc. » James K, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:57:11
But... If I lived in the US I dare say I'd be unhappy about the govt keeping tabs on me.
Given some of the things the govt seems to condone and all...
Posted by James K on January 27, 2006, at 18:03:46
In reply to Re: Google, Yahoo etc., posted by alexandra_k on January 27, 2006, at 17:44:12
Stopping the exploitation of children is one of my big interests. If my government was really interested in helping to prevent the sexual exploitation of children, they could go 1 mile from my house north and find illegal immigrant boys selling themselves for sex. They could go one mile south and find runaway children of both sexes selling themselves for sex. They could help the children with their addictions, arrest the chicken hawks and follow the money trail.
Finding out if I researched Michael Moorcock, peyronie's disease, or bipolar is just easier and less labor intensive.
That came out harsh, but the harshness is directed at my government. We are engaged in battles to make screwing your own children a prison crime, similiar to the way screwing your neighbors children would be, and I believe their investigating the internet as a pretext for some other political purpose.
If you wanted to find kiddie porn on the net as a law enforcement officer, you could employ a hacker, search for it, use a secure credit card to pay for it, then use international cooperation and the computer skills of your hacker to follow the money.
You could enforce the laws about traveling to the far east for sex tours. Or pay attention to all missing children not just cute white girls in Florida.
I'm ranting. Mainly because I didn't notice Alberto Gonzales and George W. Bush passing any laws to help children when they worked in Texas. So I don't believe them now.
James K
Posted by James K on January 28, 2006, at 15:03:43
In reply to Child Pornography *triggers* » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 27, 2006, at 18:03:46
They just shut down web forums arrested people and sent names to other governments. I feel psychic.
Alexandra K, I feel like I jumped all over you in rereading this thread. Not my intention at all. I just went off not noticing I was responding to a another poster. If you felt hostility from me to your post, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it like that.
james_k
Posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 17:19:17
In reply to Spain and Microsoft just did it, posted by James K on January 28, 2006, at 15:03:43
Thats okay. I didn't take it personally. In fact, I agree with your rant. If the government really cared they would...
Posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 17:20:15
In reply to Re: Spain and Microsoft just did it » James K, posted by alexandra_k on January 28, 2006, at 17:19:17
> Thats okay. I didn't take it personally. In fact, I agree with your rant. If the government really cared they would...
I'll rephrase that. If the government really wanted to put a stop to it those things would seem like a more effective way to go about it.
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 10:44:41
In reply to Re: Google, Yahoo etc., posted by alexandra_k on January 27, 2006, at 17:42:30
I guess I'm a) a bit paranoid and b) not entirely sure what's being passed on to the government and how. My husband says it's just statistics, not individual ISP's and searching habits.
Statistics wouldn't bother me a bit.
Targetted results not *as* much, although to me it sets a very bad precedent. I'd rather see a law passed by Congress that delineates exactly what information and under what circumstances google can turn over personal information to the government. Set in place a way to protect privacy rights. I don't like the idea of the government just being able to ask for things without clearcut information being available to the people as to what the government might end up with its hands on.
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 16:50:15
In reply to Re: Google, Yahoo etc. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 10:44:41
I think what bothers me is...
If you defined my neighborhood broadly, there are probably one or two homes with kiddy porn in them. And the police can't just come through the whole neighborhood and toss the houses until they find one with porn. No matter how worthy the goal, they can't violate your privacy without just cause.
Yet now they've just found a new way in your house. Not your windows and not your doors, but your cell phones and internet connections.
I've always been too paranoid to even have a wireless phone in my house, and I make sure I am careful what I say on cell phones, and I am careful where I visit on the internet. But that's the point. I don't think it's right that you have to feel that way about your government. It's bad enough to fear the civilians with scanners.
Posted by James K on January 29, 2006, at 17:22:04
In reply to Re: Google, Yahoo etc., posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 16:50:15
When Ashcroft wanted to introduce the TIPS program to compile data bases on everthing, congress told him no. Now all of the sudden private companies like choicepoint are doing the same thing and the government has been shown to use their services. And getting our searches will add to the profiles. I'm so paranoid and suspicious, that I wonder where the start-up money came from for these data mining and selling companies. And how can government agencies use services that duplicate the efforts that congress specificaly denied them.
How does this affect me? well I have mental illness. will I be blacklisted from employment or benefits, or due process because of something correct or incorrect in a private database accessed by corporations and governmental agencies.
I have a work friend who is married to someone who is part of the group that the Pentagon made secret and possibly illegal files on based upon a small halliburton protest. These people are so fringe, that if he disapeared for some reason, no one but his small circle would know or care. Warantless searches and secret detentions without charges in undisclosed locations - and no money to hire the kind of lawyers who might be able to locate him. I am scared. Not for myself, but people like him. I like him, but he may be in over his head.
Paranoia and worst case scenario extrapolations. Just because gonzales wants to see internet search engine results. Maybe just a symptom of my current depression. I don't want to end up like Hunter S. Thompson.
Also, if your underwear is clean, Why do you have such a problem with showing it to me?
James K
Posted by jay on January 30, 2006, at 23:55:20
In reply to Child Pornography *triggers* » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 27, 2006, at 18:03:46
We've got a great law here in Canada that allows a person to be charged for seeking sex with minors in a different country, upon their return home. Numerous people have been convicted since it went to law about 10 years ago.
Jay
Posted by gromit on February 7, 2006, at 14:42:44
In reply to Re: Google, Yahoo etc., posted by alexandra_k on January 27, 2006, at 17:42:30
> It is kiddie porn.
>
> Anyone involved... Should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law IMO.I beg to differ, this is not about kiddie porn, this is about COPA http://www.epic.org/free_speech/censorship/copa.html again.
From http://news.com.com/Supreme+Court+keeps+Net+porn+law+on+ice/2100-1028_3-5251475.html?tag=nl
COPA makes it a crime to publish "any communication for commercial purposes that includes sexual material that is harmful to minors, without restricting access to such material by minors."
Material that is "harmful to minors" is defined as lacking "scientific, literary, artistic or political value" and that is offensive to local "community standards." The maximum penalty is a $50,000 fine, six months in prison and additional civil fees.
--
Depending on where you live Pat Robertson broadcasts could fit this description. Or maybe Planned Parenthood type websites or whatever.
If they had just written a bill to protect kids from porn instead of trying BS tactics like this there would be no problem. Now they demand a weeks worth of searches, everything, not just porn-related. Hope you didn't google for al-Qaeda and book a flight online that week, you might be on the list.
It's a huge fishing expedition, invasion of privacy and completely un-American. Hooray for Google and shame on the others for caving.
My opinion anyway,
Rick
This is the end of the thread.
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