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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamar on August 29, 2005, at 17:13:27
In reply to Re: Rant continued » Declan, posted by ClearSkies on August 27, 2005, at 16:44:31
> > It's the combination of dogeatdog with high minded religiosity that gets me about the US.
> > Declan
>
> Woah! Please don't paint an entire country with the same brush! I mean, I'm not American, but that's quite the blanket statement you've made, isn't it?
> Can I be offended on behalf of a country?
> your Canadian babbler comrade, living in the US,
> ClearSkies
>Y'know... offended or not, I get the impression that many people outside the US see US culture in just the way Declan has described. I'm speaking as a foreigner myself, eh?
I know that culture is neither uniform nor univocal. And yet it's easy for the stereotypes to persist. I think it's partly driven by the media... Anything that seems quintessentially American (particularly in a negative way) is newsworthy.
Two things spring to mind: French responses to the Lewinski story, and Scottish reponses to Pat Robertson's comments along the lines that Scotland was a dark land teeming with homosexuals (or something like that; I can't look it up because my computer's being annoying). Both those stories were so newsworthy because they seemed to involve a combination of politics and religion that symbolises the sstereotype of US interests. Whether that's fair is perhaps another question. But in France there seemed to be genuine amazement ("The president was having an affair with an intern? Of course he was!") and in Scotland there seemed to be much rolling of the eyes in response to Pat Robertson ("Aye right; awa'n bile yer heid.").
I guess in today's political climate it's easy to criticize American culture. But I hope that foreigners who criticize American culture will be equally ready to apply similar critiques to their own cultures.
Rant over for now...
Tamar
Posted by Declan on August 29, 2005, at 17:13:27
In reply to Re: Rant continued, posted by Tamar on August 27, 2005, at 17:57:19
That was nice Tamar. And anyway, *what* culture? I mean my idea of American culture comes from the entertainment industry, the news, and a very few conversations with Americans, like on this site. What's it got to do with real people's lives? Maybe something. But not too much. Maybe I'm really finding globalised media difficult?
Declan
Posted by Declan on August 29, 2005, at 17:13:43
In reply to Re: please be civil » Declan, posted by Dr. Bob on August 28, 2005, at 23:58:57
I suppose it's hard to talk about religion and politics without someone feeling put down. What was it we were told? No politics or religion at the meal table, I think.
Declan
Posted by Toph on August 29, 2005, at 17:13:43
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » AdaGrace, posted by Dr. Bob on August 28, 2005, at 23:55:14
Posted by Jakeman on August 29, 2005, at 22:19:17
In reply to Re: Rant continued, posted by Tamar on August 27, 2005, at 17:57:19
I hope we don't get into a "better than thou" argument. All humans have defects. Leaders and governments who cause suffering should be opposed, whether it be in Washington or Dafur.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by gromit on August 29, 2005, at 22:45:04
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Declan on August 29, 2005, at 7:51:16
> The mentality in a poverish area like this seems to be "I want to get something for nothing"
I wonder where the political divide is between those who blame the impoverished for milking the system and those who blame the Ken Lays and Dick Cheneys. Actually I don't wonder, just talking out loud, I know which one is actually more harmful and I know where the line is drawn. Even the legal tax loopholes, and I don't think they are unintentional, more like legal wink winks exploited by the very wealthy are worse. IMO there is no group that feels more "entitled" than the wealthy.
> I suppose it's hard to talk about religion and politics without someone feeling put down. What was it we were told? No politics or religion at the meal table, I think.
Speaking as an American, as much as I want to disagree with your previous post I can't. It could have been worded better but the content is on the money.
Rick
Posted by crazy teresa on August 29, 2005, at 23:39:00
In reply to Re: Rant continued, posted by Tamar on August 27, 2005, at 17:57:19
> But in France there seemed to be genuine amazement ("The president was having an affair with an intern? Of course he was!")
Years ago when I was in Europe, I was amazed by a man in a bar telling me everyone there (his friends) simply assumed I would be sleeping with him that night because we were talking and drinking (although in a group). He was married and had a daughter my age (14--I passing for 18); I was appalled and amazed that none of it seemed to be a big deal to them. When I asked him to explain how this was possibly ok, he shrugged and told me it just was.
Posted by Declan on August 30, 2005, at 1:42:37
In reply to Re: Rant continued, posted by Jakeman on August 29, 2005, at 22:19:17
Hi Jake
Yeah well, fine, but how do you discuss this without it being offensive? I dunno.
But this I wanted to say....it seems to me that the virtues that ordinary people routinely live by are so different to the practices of our leaderships. Politics attracts a certain sort? And also the Yeats thing: The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity.
I don't want to sound holier than thou, we're all in this together
Declan
Posted by Jakeman on August 31, 2005, at 1:11:17
In reply to Re: Rant continued » Jakeman, posted by Declan on August 30, 2005, at 1:42:37
> > I don't want to sound holier than thou, we're all in this together
> DeclanYou bring up a key point. Ywa, we are all in this together. It's a big issue in how to approach social change. Do we identify an enemy and defeat them, or do we take a middle ground and avoid polarization. It disturbed me at first that Lance Armstrong went on a long bike ride with Dubya last weekend. Lance has taken a stand against the war, but he still hangs out with the instigator. I wondered what they talked about. But because they don't consider each other enemies, perhaps Lance could sway his opinion, and help open up his mind a bit.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by Jakeman on August 31, 2005, at 1:14:07
In reply to Re: Rant continued, posted by Jakeman on August 31, 2005, at 1:11:17
> > > I don't want to sound holier than thou, we're all in this together
> > Declan
>
> You bring up a key point. Ywa, we are all in this together. It's a big issue in how to approach social change. Do we identify an enemy and defeat them, or do we take a middle ground and avoid polarization. It disturbed me at first that Lance Armstrong went on a long bike ride with Dubya last weekend. Lance has taken a stand against the war, but he still hangs out with the instigator. I wondered what they talked about. But because they don't consider each other enemies, perhaps Lance could sway his opinion, and help open up his mind a bit.
>
> warm regards ~JakePlease overlook the bad typos in the previous message. I can't type.
Posted by Declan on August 31, 2005, at 3:21:19
In reply to Re: Rant continued, posted by Jakeman on August 31, 2005, at 1:14:07
Considering the weather you've been having Jake, I think you are being remarkably gracious.
And really the human condition thing, no doubt it gets to us all.
Mainly one wants the world to be safe. And led wisely.
After WWII a generation thought 'Never Again'.
And once they died off.....
Pathetic really.
All the best Jake.
Declan
Posted by Jakeman on August 31, 2005, at 21:51:22
In reply to Re: Rant continued » Jakeman, posted by Declan on August 31, 2005, at 3:21:19
> Considering the weather you've been having Jake, I think you are being remarkably gracious.
>The aftermath of the hurricane is heartbreaking and we don't even know the death toll yet.
I hope to help out in some way this weekend.National Guard members have been sent in to assist. Their numbers are smaller than usual though, because so many of the Guard are now stationed in Iraq.
warm regard ~Jake
This is the end of the thread.
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