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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 8:37:55
I've got a friend who eats a little compulsively. This is one of the few people in my life to whom I've voluntarily disclosed my anorexia, and one of my favorite people. I'd love to offer to help, but I don't know quite how to bring it up. Since I want to offer an area to reduce stress, rather than add to it, can anyone suggest anything about approaching this oh-so-sensitive issue?
We've talked a little about my issue, although I'm never sure how much anyone knows about anorexia -- so much of what the media presents is so misleading. I keep hoping that our talks about the periphery will lead somewhere, but not so far...
Any ideas?
Thanks.
Posted by JayMac on September 11, 2008, at 11:53:52
In reply to Wanting to help a friend with BED, posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 8:37:55
Racer,
Does your friend like to read? If so, I know of an author who wrote many AMAZING books on emotional eating.
Posted by Poet on September 12, 2008, at 13:57:09
In reply to Wanting to help a friend with BED, posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 8:37:55
Hi Racer,
I'm with you that the media and and may I add made for TV movies are misleading when it comes to EDs.
Maybe next time you're out with your friend and she's clearly emotionally eating, say something like, "you know I have issues with food and stress, I noticed that you're eating alot more than you usually do and you look kind of stressed out." You're not asking her a question, but giving her an opinion and she can either agree or disagree.
Good luck.
Poet
Posted by Racer on September 17, 2008, at 10:09:41
In reply to Re: Wanting to help a friend with BED, posted by JayMac on September 11, 2008, at 11:53:52
Well, let's modify that a bit: I don't think I can offer a book right now.
We have talked a little about food/eating/weight issues, but I'm still at the point of feeling my way into saying something, offering to help. Once I've crossed that hurdle, books might be a good option.
Anyway, I'm interested in what they are, so please do post the titles! And you do know about the double double quotes thing to link to Amazon?
And Poet, thank you -- I think next time the subject comes up, I will ask if it's something we can talk about. I'm feeling too F*T myself right now to do it over food, though...
We went out the other night for cheesecake -- I swear, what kind of anorexic am I if I eat that, right? -- and I had to go to the ladies' right after... I get so paranoid about that, and had to say, "for the record, even if you don't care or didn't think of it -- I DON'T PURGE!" Of course, I don't know that he'd care -- although I'd like to think he would -- and he said it hadn't occurred to him, so maybe I just embarrassed myself...
Ah, well...
Posted by Sigismund on September 18, 2008, at 16:45:33
In reply to Wanting to help a friend with BED, posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 8:37:55
When our daughter won't get up in the morning one of our strategies is to send me in to eat at the door.
This normally brings a howl out from under the blankets.
(This does not, of course, qualify as compulsive eating. Perhaps it is some idiosyncratic family psych thing.)The thing with compulsive eating is that if you don't eat some sorts of things, nothing bad happens, no matter how much you eat, pretty much.
I eat heaps and if I didn't drink would be really thin. But no cheesecake; anyway I have allergies.
Posted by WaterSapphire on September 19, 2008, at 7:55:40
In reply to Wanting to help a friend with BED, posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 8:37:55
I hope that my approach to this does not come off as something that would hurt your feelings or wish to help and be a part of your friend's wellness.
I am very honest, and this is just my take on things here. I am very fat. However, my problem is not related to binge eating or compulsive eating. I do however have a big problem with salt as you know and insulin resistance which makes it hard for me sometimes. The only time I ever eat crazy things is one of two days a month during that stupid time all women must go through.
First, does your friend even have a problem with the way he/she eats personally? Does he/she complain or talk about this a lot?
Is it affecting his/her weight?
You state you have dealt with anorexia. You went to your friend with your eating issues and he/she was there for you. Does your friend want help do you think? First you must make sure this is not something only you are wanting, for your friend might well be taken aback unless they are crying out for help in some way. I have no idea of course because I am not in your shoes or situation. It might be good to just make sure you are not letting any personal issues with eating cause bias. I only say this because when someone has any kind of eating issue as I am sure you very well know, you don't want them to feel even more awful about how they may already feel about themself.
I am fat, and yet I have also tried to starve myself, and even purged here and there in the past( no binging). I had a friend who gravitated toward the pro-ana lifestyle and at that time I followed her. The reason I followed her was because I needed to lose a ton of weight, and I was sick of being judged by everyone. I need to lose weight for my health, and never have felt offended by people who were my true friends or family so long as it was not something they always felt a need to point out all the time. But, I stopped eating hardly at all.I was not anorexic because I was way too fat to be anorexic. I became even more depressed than ever, and only would grab a few bites to eat when she was not looking. I am talking food sneaking because I was afraid of her saying something to me about eating normally or eating at all. It ruined our friendship. She was never big to begin with and very ill with malabsorption. She stopped talking to me because I didn't want to keep on with the same lifestyle she was so entranced by. She now is very deeply into the pro-ana pro-mia lifestyle. I am not trying to scare you here. I am not trying to say what you should do. You are a good, helpful, kind friend. I am just sharing my perspective, because I am still fighting this today. Just two weeks ago I started going down that old road again after starving myself for a few days, and eating 500 calories or less, so I decided to join weight watchers so I would not lose weight the unhealthy way by not eating or you know. Perhaps you could come out and ask your friend simply...
You know after dealing with my own eating disorder. I was wondering...Have you ever had any experience with this yourself? Have you ever felt the need to harm yourself in any way because of food?
It might work. This way you are not saying anything that might spark a negative response by your friend. I hope Racer nothing I have said here has sounded harsh. I just want to make sure you and your friend have many many years of friendship to share together. I miss my friend, but I could not please her.Peace
Chelle
Posted by Racer on September 19, 2008, at 13:50:07
In reply to Racer (possibly ED triggers), posted by WaterSapphire on September 19, 2008, at 7:55:40
> I hope that my approach to this does not come off as something that would hurt your feelings or wish to help and be a part of your friend's wellness.
No worries. I'm pretty good at taking well meant, generously offered, constructive criticism, and you're offering a genuine and sincere concern. I respect that.
>
> First, does your friend even have a problem with the way he/she eats personally? Does he/she complain or talk about this a lot?
> Is it affecting his/her weight?
> Perhaps you could come out and ask your friend simply...Actually, we have spoken about this. Most of our discussions have come up with him bringing up the problems he has with not being able to control his eating, and his struggles with body image, self-image, and other issues related to disordered eating. That's why I was hoping for some advice on how to offer help.
As it is, whenever he does bring up his body image and self image issues, I offer back my experience of him. Yes, he has gained weight, and I am shocked when I first see him these days because he has become -- I have a real problem with the "F" word, because I think it has taken on a much more judgmental and negative meaning than a neutral description, and yet I have to admit I'd use it to describe him now. And once I've been in his company for a few minutes, he goes back to being a man I care about a great deal. And I have told him I find him very sexy, and that his weight worries me largely because it has become such an issue for him, and because it makes him unhappy. He is very sexy, and he makes my mouth water -- even at his new size. (This isn't a boyfriend, by the way -- legally, I'm married.) He's a wonderful man, he's got almost everything in the world going for him, and the weight is a concern for him. And his happiness is a concern for me, regardless of whether I have that right.
He is the one who's brought it up with me, is what I'm trying to say. I've been pretty open with him about my anorexia, largely in hopes it helps him feel open to bringing up his concerns with me. Also, because I got so heavy on some of the anti-depressants I've taken, I know how it can feel to be around people who are thinner. So, I've also been open about it in hopes he won't feel ashamed of his weight around me.
Bottom line of what I'm trying to say here is that I promise -- cross my heart -- I'm not just projecting my own anti-fat bias here. I am not thinking, "oh, how can anyone stand to be overweight? I'll have to step in and tell him how to fix it." I really am trying to figure out a way to offer him support, respectfully, and a place to discuss his concerns with someone who cares about him a great deal. I think there's a misapprehension about anorexics -- yes, some are biased against overweight in anyone, but because my self-image is as someone who is heavy, and because I grew up hearing I was fat, I relate to heavier people better than those who are naturally slim. Ironically, I'm the size acceptance zealot, *because* of my eating disorder and my own body image distortion.
(Remember, Anorexia Nervosa is a mental illness. I know that I am crazy. I know that what I see in others should apply to me, as well. I know that what I see in the mirror is very distorted. And it's still real to me. It does not mean that I apply it to anyone else. I see other women, and think things like, "she's too thin," or "she's so lovely -- but I'll bet she worries she's too fat, which is a crime." And I feel fat and lumpy, despite *knowing* that I am not, objectively, fat. It's a mental illness, not an attitude.)
> It might work. This way you are not saying anything that might spark a negative response by your friend. I hope Racer nothing I have said here has sounded harsh.
Not at all, and I hope you'll feel able to offer your perspective to me without the disclaimer next time. What you have to offer is valuable, and I appreciate it.
Posted by WaterSapphire on September 19, 2008, at 16:00:58
In reply to Re: Racer (possibly ED triggers) » WaterSapphire, posted by Racer on September 19, 2008, at 13:50:07
If your friend has talked about these things with you then there has got to be some way to approach him. The how, is the hard part. From my understanding most people with eating disorders are uncomfortable and have a distorted view, or behaviour mechanism and are only judging their own bodies. It is so hard. True anorexia, bulimia, etc are of course mental illnesses. I ate healthy today and kept stepping on a scale that doesn't even go up high enough to weigh me, but I have a need to at least gage once it has gone round the dial. Being this big is hell. It really is. It is hard. It is not to blame for every medical problem out there. But, you get brushed off and ignored by doctors sometimes even where there are more serious things going on that have nothing to do with your weight. I want people to see me for me. All they see is an anxious obese person. I know you are not like that. Perhaps saying to your friend I am worried about your health, and remember when we talked about this and this...
Perhaps you could use me as an example. Tell your friend how you know someone who is sick and is getting blown off and has been tossed around because of weight issues, even though some of the things that are going on are not weight related.
I would not wish my size, or health problems on anyone. Heck there are big people who are a lot healthier than me and a lot older. I think I am off on a tangent now lol :) Once I get going, I have trouble keeping my mouth shut. I just have to keep telling myself that severe calorie restriction is not the only way to lose weight. We shall see...I need help...
Every time I go to eat, I am afraid now lol...
I am eating weight watchers style, but the guilt sometimes is just amazing.
Well, I hope you can find a way to help him. You care about him and you know what it is like to have an eating disorder...
Peace
Chelle
Posted by Racer on September 19, 2008, at 19:21:39
In reply to Racer, posted by WaterSapphire on September 19, 2008, at 16:00:58
> I ate healthy today and kept stepping on a scale that doesn't even go up high enough to weigh me, but I have a need to at least gage once it has gone round the dial.
> Every time I go to eat, I am afraid now
> I am eating weight watchers style, but the guilt sometimes is just amazing.
(Disclaimer: I'm also a local resource person for a national eating disorders education and advocacy group, and I am so sensitive to this...)Stepping on a scale after eating, or stepping on a scale multiple times a day -- honestly, more than once a week -- feeling guilty after eating, being afraid to eat because of weight concerns, are all actually signs of a disordered relationship with food, eating, and your body... I'm pointing that out in hopes that it helps, since it's such hell to be obsessed by weight and to hate one's own body.
> Perhaps saying to your friend I am worried about your health, and remember when we talked about this and this...
Honestly? I only worry a little about any health risks involved. I worry that he isn't happy, and I worry that he doesn't feel good about himself. I have no real right to worry about those things, but I do.
Seems I lied, because there's something else I can't stop myself from putting in...
> I just have to keep telling myself that severe calorie restriction is not the only way to lose weight.
And severe calorie restriction is usually not very effective, especially for those who have a weight problem. Unless you're seeing a doctor and a dietitian to oversee this, you should probably be taking in about 1500 to 2000 calories per day *minimum* in order to lose weight. Go much below that, and your body will go into famine mode, and hang on to every single bit of energy it can get, all of which will be stored as adipose tissue.
Besides which, starving oneself almost inevitably leads to binging, which then becomes a cycle that involves an awful lot of self-loathing. And the starve-binge, starve-binge pattern will put more weight on you than eating a healthy meal plan would. (ie: three solid meals and three snacks per day; something to eat at least every two and a half to three hours, etc. The goal is that you should never be more than a little hungry, and never feel "stuffed." Just coasting in the range of "I think I should start planning dinner and eat in about an hour" to "I feel satisfied, but I could certainly eat dessert if I so chose." Make sense?)
(Oh, and most anorexics who've had nutritional counseling as part of their treatment can offer sound, healthy advice about eating. It's only applying it that is so hard... Nonetheless, if you're serious about losing what seems to be a significant amount of weight, I urge you to get professional guidance. It makes a huge difference, because the goal is to be healthy, not to be thin.)
Posted by WaterSapphire on September 19, 2008, at 20:23:59
In reply to Two quick comments... » WaterSapphire, posted by Racer on September 19, 2008, at 19:21:39
I still cannot believe I said all that I did lol. I am usually not so open about some things. I am working very hard on trying not to obsess about the scale. Thank you for all your advice. I do not want to obessively weigh myself, or obsess over food being ok or not all the time. The weight watchers seems safer for me, even though some days I am not getting all my points in I am eating healthier and not trying to cut so far back unreasonably on calories cuz as we know that will only make you too hungry. It is awesome you are an advocate for an ED group. I am doing the eat only till you are satisfied but not stuffed thing. If I ate too much I get sick to my stomach. I hope you can speak to your friend about this like I said. Me, I am happy to hear advice at this point in time in my life. It is horrible to live with something like that and drive oneself bananas. I already have enough stuff going on and just want to get as healthy as I can. One therapist years back wanted me to go into an ED center in Denver, but we didn't have the money at the time. I was very obsessive at the time about everything with food. Well, thanks again Racer. Just don't ever want you to think that I don't appreciate your input, cuz I do.
Peace
Chelle
Posted by JayMac on September 20, 2008, at 14:20:07
In reply to Not time for books yet »Poet » JayMac, posted by Racer on September 17, 2008, at 10:09:41
Check out the new post below. Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
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