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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by oceancat on September 6, 2008, at 2:24:16
Hi everyone,
I would like to know people's experiences with DLPA (dl-phenylalanine). I just took my first 500 mg dose today for depression (I also take a myraid of other meds) and it lifted my mood, gave me energy, and most surprisingly, made me relatively outgoing (I also have social phobia).
I'm particularly interested if poop out occurs with DLPA -- I always get that with prescription dopamine and noradrenaline enhancers like Ritalin and Wellbutrin, and increasing dopamine seems to be key for me feeling better.
I would also like to know if anyone's tried TMG, a precursor to SAM-e. I took 1000 mg a few days ago with no effect, then 2000 mg the next day, which made me a little wired in a slightly uncomfortable way. The therapeutic dosage is 1000-3000 mg/day and I can only find it in 1000 mg form. It's meant to have results over a few weeks, not immediately, so I'm wondering if I should stick with it (the pills are huge and hard to swallow for me).
Thanks much,
oceancat
Posted by bleauberry on September 6, 2008, at 18:35:02
In reply to DL-Phenylalanine or TMG experiences anyone?, posted by oceancat on September 6, 2008, at 2:24:16
I can't comment on TMG since I only tried it one day and it made me feel bad. I think it is a reasonable cousin in the SAMe family, but SAMe itself has a lot more scientific evidence, anecdotal evidence, and research behind it.
DLPA is common topic in several books that focus on treating depression naturally. 5htp of course is tops on their lists. But when that doesn't work or isn't enough, they favor tyrosine or DLPA.
Realworld results here at pbabble have been slim over the years. I think maybe because no one knows the right dose or amount of time. Or maybe side effects. Dunno.
There are some old clinical studies from 1975 and 1977 where they treated patients with 50mg to 150mg per day, in comparison to other patients on TCA. The TCA got off to a faster start and appeared superior until the end of the study where DLPA had caught up to it except with far fewer side effects.
I think while you felt the initial boost of neurotransmitters from DLPA and it felt good, that is not the true therapeutic effect. What will likely happen is it will appear to have pooped, seem to be doing nothing, but then 4 to 6 weeks later the true recovery becomes evident. You might quickly become tolerant to the feeling of the immediate boost, but nevertheless, those extra neuros are going to cause brain readjustments over weeks the same as a med would.
On the internet, and on the instructions on the bottles, doses are in the 500mg to much higher range. In reality, those clinical studies had good success with only 50mg to 150mg daily.
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2008, at 5:05:45
In reply to Re: DL-Phenylalanine or TMG experiences anyone?, posted by bleauberry on September 6, 2008, at 18:35:02
> I can't comment on TMG since I only tried it one day and it made me feel bad. I think it is a reasonable cousin in the SAMe family, but SAMe itself has a lot more scientific evidence, anecdotal evidence, and research behind it.
I guess I can mention Deplin on this board as it is a "medical food" and a precursor to S-ame. It is like a supercharged folic acid (L-methylfolate). I obtained a robust effect about 2 months after starting it. Unfortunately, it faded over the next 6 months. Deplin is meant to be taken with standard antidepressant therapy, especially if one has obtained a partial response to it. Folic acid is not substitute for the active form L-methylfolate. Folic acid must be metabolized into L-methylfolate first in order for it to be used by the body. Maybe Deplin would be more effective for you than it was for me.http://www.deplin.com/HealthcareProfessionals,Action
My treatment at the time was:Nardil 90mg
nortriptyline 150mg
Lamictal 200mg
Abilify 20mg
Deplin 7.5mg
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2008, at 5:14:46
In reply to Re: DL-Phenylalanine or TMG experiences anyone?, posted by SLS on September 7, 2008, at 5:05:45
I might mention that I believe that some people will find 7.5mg to be too high a dosage of Deplin. I found that 15mg actually caused me to feel worse. There might be a therapeutic window with Deplin. I would use a pill splitter to divide the tablets. I think this is indicated if one experiences vivid dreaming and nightmares. One sometimes experiences a brief "blip" improvement during the first week of treatment. Perhaps this is a good prognosticator of eventual response. I might add back Deplin 3.75mg if I feel I am "stuck" on my way towards remission.
- Scott
Posted by curious1 on September 27, 2008, at 15:01:36
In reply to Re: DL-Phenylalanine or TMG experiences anyone?, posted by bleauberry on September 6, 2008, at 18:35:02
Interesting about the study using only 50-75 mgs of DLPA.
I took 500 mg for 3 or 4 days in a row.
First day I was irritable and angry.
Second day I felt over-stimulated, but less irritable.
Third day felt pretty darn good, happy, music sounded better. Basically felt great!
Then on the fourth day I felt horrible, headachy, down, almost migraine headachy.Maybe I was taking wayyy too mcuh and 50-75mg a day is the way to go??? It did work very well for a day or 2.
Thanks for the information, I will try DLPA again at a much lower dose.
Posted by azalea on September 28, 2008, at 17:51:06
In reply to Re: DL-Phenylalanine or TMG experiences anyone?, posted by curious1 on September 27, 2008, at 15:01:36
Here's 1 study on DLPA:
Dl-phenylalanine in depressed patients: an open study.
Beckmann H. Strauss MA. Ludolph E.
Journal of Neural Transmission. 41(2-3):123-34, 1977.In an open study dl-phenylalanine in doses from 75-200 mg/day was administered to 20 depressed patients for 20 days. Patients were classified according to the International Classification of Diseases (ICD). The AMP system, the Hamilton depression scale and the von Zerssen self rating questionnaire were used for documentation of psychopathological, neurologic and somatic changes. In addition a global clinical impression was agreed upon by experienced psychiatrists. At the end of the trial 12 patients (8 with complete, 4 with good response) could be discharged without any further treatment. 4 patients with partially untypical depressions experienced mild to moderate responses, whereas 4 patients did not respond at all to the phenylalanine administration. Depressive "core symptoms" as depressed mood, retardation and/or agitation were preferentially, anxiety and sleep disturbances moderately and hypochondriasis and compulsiveness were not influenced. It is concluded that dl-phenylalanine might have substantial antidepressant properties and that further more controlled investigations are warranted.
> Interesting about the study using only 50-75 mgs of DLPA.
>
> I took 500 mg for 3 or 4 days in a row.
>
> First day I was irritable and angry.
> Second day I felt over-stimulated, but less irritable.
> Third day felt pretty darn good, happy, music sounded better. Basically felt great!
> Then on the fourth day I felt horrible, headachy, down, almost migraine headachy.
>
> Maybe I was taking wayyy too mcuh and 50-75mg a day is the way to go??? It did work very well for a day or 2.
>
> Thanks for the information, I will try DLPA again at a much lower dose.
This is the end of the thread.
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