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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by twinmom on July 26, 2004, at 12:02:36
Is this real?? and if it is and can add to the mood swings, depression and the lack of ability to loose weight - is there anything to help it?
I have asked this before - but what about cortislim? It is supposed to be a natural supplement to reduce high cortisol levels - does anyone think this could work? I am depserate - maybe that why I want it to work - so I am also afraid of being sucked in by something useless....any experiences? anyone?
Posted by twinmom on July 26, 2004, at 13:25:57
In reply to Stress Hormone Cortisol, posted by twinmom on July 26, 2004, at 12:02:36
OK - I just found out that there was a class action lawsuit filed against the manufacturer and distributer of cortislim on July 12 on behalf of consumers in 26 states based on allegedly misleading advertising claims.
So any other ways to reduce cortisol levels?
Tealady - Larry Hoover suggested trying you on this board about cortisol levels. And I know you have given me great advice on my thyroid levels.
Posted by Racer on July 31, 2004, at 21:19:32
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol tealady?, posted by twinmom on July 26, 2004, at 13:25:57
Will you accept me instead?
Cortisol is a naturally occurring steroid produced by the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, which is involved in a lot of body functions. Your body produces larger amounts in response to stress, but you should have some roaming your system all the time anyway. You need cortisol to get out of bed in the morning. (In fact, Addison's Disease results in hypocortisolism.) You cannot eliminate cortisol from your system, and it's not something you'd want to play around with on your own using those commercial products.
That said, too much cortisol is also a problem -- Cushing's Disease causes elevated levels of cortisol to flood the system, which does result in things like pot belly, muscle loss, etc. And cortisol can be elevated in people with depression -- and depression is a common symptom of Cushing's Disease.
If you check the meds board, you'll see that I posted a couple of links about cortisol, which may or may not help much. There's not a lot of information of the sort I think you're looking for: whether there's a way to lower cortisol in order to lose weight. (By the way, cortisol, to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge, is not associated with weight gain per se: it's associated with a migration of weight to certain areas, like the abdomen.)
So, what can you do about that weight? First, if you're taking any anti-depressants or mood stabilizers or anti-psychotics, sit your doctor down for a real heart to heart. Many of these drugs cause weight gain, and if your current doctor tries to tell you that your extra weight is really caused by sitting down to eat a pint of ice cream every afternoon and not the drugs -- fire him. Unless, of course, you are eating that pint of ice cream every day ;-) During this talk, it might be worth asking about some tests that can be done to check to see if your body chemistry is a bit out of whack from the drugs -- maybe they're elevating or lowering your blood sugar, maybe something else is going on, but most of it can be checked. You can also ask about having a salivary cortisol test, or even a dexamethasone suppression test -- although I very much doubt that your doctor would choose to do a DST for weight related issues, it is the gold standard for testing your body's production of cortisol.
And, of course, before going to your doctor to talk about weight gain (can you hear the long suffering tone in my typing? Been through this one on a couple of drugs myself -- doctors can be quite maddening about weight gain in women), keep a food diary for a week or so, with the type and amount of food you eat, and the time you eat it. Be brutally honest about it -- if you're kinda fudging it, it may end up pointing to other problems you won't want to be treated for. If you're really feeling motivated, include something like the amount of exercise you get each day during your charting. It doesn't have to be elaborate, just a quick note about it being a more or less active day. (Aside from the basic purpose of showing what you're actually eating, by the way, doctors seem to like the idea that you are motivated enough to keep the food diary in the first place. So, it's worth humoring them if it gets the right result.)
Lastly, some of the weight gain from some meds is caused by elevated blood sugar levels, so one of the meds used for treating Type II diabetes might be in order. Aside from possibly bringing that weight down, that would also help prevent some of the problems that untreated diabetes causes. And, if the problem does turn out to be excessive cortisol production, there are drugs out there that can lower production. I know of two, but don't know how well they work. (One is an old anti-histimine, though, and it does cause drowsiness. I'm not sure if it's effective as a once-daily at bedtime agent, so I won't tell you the name.)
I hope some of htis helped. I'm sorry I can't just tell you to run out and buy a bottle of something, but frankly -- those things scare me.
Posted by tealady on August 1, 2004, at 2:28:51
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol tealady?, posted by Racer on July 31, 2004, at 21:19:32
Racer thanks for helping out,..I felt the same about the bottle of something.
I kinda part replied below somewhere to Twinmom..but nowhere near as well as you (I'm not really "functioning" at present).
Posted by Racer on August 1, 2004, at 9:12:08
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol tealady? » Racer, posted by tealady on August 1, 2004, at 2:28:51
> Racer thanks for helping out,..I felt the same about the bottle of something.
> I kinda part replied below somewhere to Twinmom..but nowhere near as well as you (I'm not really "functioning" at present).
I'm not really "functioning" these days, either... I am, however, somewhat speedy from upping my Provigil dose, thus the longer than usual posts.Cortisol, though, is a pet subject of mine, as is weight gain. I am pretty sure that I am overproducing cortisol myself, which is why I've done this research about it. (That, and having some experience with Cushing's Disease, but that's a different story.)
And I've been pretty well traumatized on the weight gain issues, myself, so I really am quite sympathetic about it. When I hear about people who are complaining that they've gained 10 pounds over the two years they've been on a drug, I kinda laugh -- every drug I've been on so far has put weight on me, but it's in the 40 to 70 pound range! What I know, though, is that at least one of them affected my blood sugar more than enough to do that, so a doctor who wanted to address the problem could have done so -- but only if he had chosen to. It's maddening, no question; and that sort of weight gain is not only not healthy for the body, it's not exactly conducive to psychological health, either. It sounds as if somedoctors are catching on about that, though, so maybe there's hope down the road.
As for weight gain, diet and exercise won't reverse all the weight gain caused by these drugs, but they are still healthy things to do. And, if one can do those things first to show that determination, doctors will often take the weight issue a bit more seriously.
Thank you for your kind words. I was afraid that my opinion -- that over the counter diet pills are not worth the space they take up on this planet -- would result in flaming arrows aimed at my head. It was a great relief to see your post, with the compliment it contained pure icing for me, when I most needed it.
Posted by linkadge on August 2, 2004, at 18:19:46
In reply to Wanna know a secret? » tealady, posted by Racer on August 1, 2004, at 9:12:08
Posted by Racer on August 3, 2004, at 11:39:52
In reply to periactin (cyproheptadine) - too short a half life (nm), posted by linkadge on August 2, 2004, at 18:19:46
I don't know what exactly you're responding to, but here's something I do know: periactin is used in some cases to treat Cushing's Disease. That's not an opinion -- it's based on what medical professionals have been prescribing. The rationale behind it or the evidence they're basing it on, I couldn't say. I can only say that it's one of the drugs I know is being used in some cases. (I do know that when it is chosen, it's usually for economic reasons, since the other drugs are so much more expensive.)
Posted by tealady on August 4, 2004, at 8:33:24
In reply to Wanna know a secret? » tealady, posted by Racer on August 1, 2004, at 9:12:08
>
> Cortisol, though, is a pet subject of mine, as is weight gain. I am pretty sure that I am overproducing cortisol myself, which is why I've done this research about it. (That, and having some experience with Cushing's Disease, but that's a different story.)
>I'm not really "up" with Cushings..only know what it means, and I guess it could be caused by many things..but yours sounds like p-drugs? may be partly the culprit
> And I've been pretty well traumatized on the weight gain issues, myself, so I really am quite sympathetic about it. When I hear about people who are complaining that they've gained 10 pounds over the two years they've been on a drug, I kinda laugh -- every drug I've been on so far has put weight on me, but it's in the 40 to 70 pound range! What I know, though, is that at least one of them affected my blood sugar more than enough to do that, so a doctor who wanted to address the problem could have done so -- but only if he had chosen to. It's maddening, no question; and that sort of weight gain is not only not healthy for the body, it's not exactly conducive to psychological health, either. It sounds as if somedoctors are catching on about that, though, so maybe there's hope down the road.
>No, I noticed the difference in my walking ability with a weight gain from 110lbs to 150lbs.
I got back by diet and exercise though,(wtith exercise being the important bit) but I've regained 12 lbs in the past 2 weeks...not eating right and probably more important..not exercising enough. It's cold and winter over here now..so I'm overeating I guess and the wind doesn't really provide much incentive for walking, and I keep forgetting it gets dark so early...like I need excuses?
> As for weight gain, diet and exercise won't reverse all the weight gain caused by these drugs, but they are still healthy things to do. And, if one can do those things first to show that determination, doctors will often take the weight issue a bit more seriously.
>I was lucky enough to go on holidays..first to visit Vanuatu and then Britain..which has many lovely walks and sooo many places to see..you'd need years to walk all of them I think
So that gave me the incentive to walk as much as I could most days..to see the scenery, wildlife,castles etc. You know they even have step ladders over their fences(called stiles) and steps around their gates..talk about civilized!..oh and traffic lights for cows to cross the road!
I ate lots fresh fruit and veges too..easy to munch on in the car and on walks and the turkey, chicken and eggs and bacon and fish were really terrific..not "plasticy" like we get over here. So I think that helped.Vanuatu I decided it was just too exxy to eat most foods..like $7AUD for a can of baked beans in the supermarket...bananas, pawpaws and coconuts off the trees were cheaper, lol and local steak wasn't too exxy either and really nice. But the exercise probably helped there too.
> Thank you for your kind words. I was afraid that my opinion -- that over the counter diet pills are not worth the space they take up on this planet -- would result in flaming arrows aimed at my head. It was a great relief to see your post, with the compliment it contained pure icing for me, when I most needed it.Wow, thanks back. Me too. Grin..pure icing ain't supposed to be good for ya, lol.
Just wanted you to know I think it is possible to lose the weight again..only then you have to rebuild the muscle too, sigh.
Walking is far easier now with the weight gone..it's really noticeable,..even carrying an extra 10kgs(22 lb) in my backpack. I fill up water bottles from the creeks ..as our water contains fluoride, sigh. I definitely do notice the difference in water without the fluoride, but would have to go walking almost daily to get enough...should be an incentive there..
I'll try to find an old post of mine with links to that "raw foods" bit.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/265684.htmlThe case is raw foods contain enzymes that we lose if we cook the food..and those enzymes aid digestion, and our metabolism speeds up...so eating a few fruits and veges raw..like salads, oranges, apples, tomatoes, carrots, bananas, pawpaws etc helps with weight loss. Personally I'd never go totally "raw"..I like steak etc too much!
Posted by twinmom on August 5, 2004, at 10:35:17
In reply to Stress Hormone Cortisol, posted by twinmom on July 26, 2004, at 12:02:36
Thank You all for your responses - and no flames here for bashing diet drugs - I really do agree - just an temporary hope against hope kind of thing.
I really do think the meds have quite a bit to do with it - as well as just some normal aging and hormonal stuff. I am 5'7 and weighed 145lbs 3 years ago when I got pregnant with the twins (at the time I was 33) gained about 60 pounds during the pregnancy and lost about 30 lbs within a month of delivery. But then just stuck there at 175lb to 180lb for about 2 years - not pleasant but at least I was still in "normal" sizes at 12's and 14's. But then in Feb. of this year I had to start a new pdoc (insurance change) and she diagnosed me as bipolar and started me on lexapro (which I had been on previously) and Zyprexa (if only I had known then what I know now) and in about 6 weeks gained 30-35 lbs. I stopped zyprexa, she tried topomax (which had horrible side effects for me) and I am now on Wellbutrin (300mg) Zoloft (200mg) Depakote (1000mg) risperdal (.5mg) and just since last week trazadone (150mg).
I am stuck at 210lbs and MISERABLE my weight has always been a huge sensitive area for me and it truly is affecting everything in my life. My pdoc says - oh it's easy stop eating dinner and drink diet drinks and walk 45min to 1 hour everyday....
Ok - so I don't eat a whole lot (probably more than I should to be really "dieting" I have been drinking only diet drinks for 7 years, and hello I live in texas - it's 100 degrees everday so even if I had the motivation to walk I'm not sure when/where I could without dying from heat exhaustion. Not to mention I get tired just thinking about it - I know I should but it is really hard. I work full time and have 4 kids including 2 two year olds. It is so frustrating to hear "just walk an hour everyday - you will loose weight" Well MAYBE if you hadn't put me on the zyprexa it would be such an issue. Oh and this past visit she told me need to loose the weight to be more atractive to my husband - WELL DUH!!
I feel fat and horrible unattractive all the time - it impacts every thought and action and feeling I have.
Thank you for all the ideas - I will do the food and excersise journal for at least a week before our next meeting - just to prove to her that it's not all me overeating and being lazy - it's not all my fault. Ok I know it doesn't matter whose fault it is but at least to have some validation given to my feelings - and at least some direction other than "oh it's easy".
Anyway - thanks for listening and responding - I know there is no magic pill - and I appreciate you all reminding me of that fact - sometimes we just want to believe so badly we need some reinforcment of what we know to be the truth.
Ramona
Posted by tealady on August 6, 2004, at 4:25:22
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol, posted by twinmom on August 5, 2004, at 10:35:17
I "guess" you could give some of these a whirl..Mary seems to find they work for her..notbeing in the US , haven't tried them
Posted by Racer on August 6, 2004, at 12:07:53
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol, posted by twinmom on August 5, 2004, at 10:35:17
Ugh. Here's what I know about zyprexa, that might be worth bashing your pdoc over the head with: zyprexa can cause type II diabetes directly, through metabolic syndrome x. Period. No, it doesn't depend on you gaining weight to throw you over the diabetic wall. The drug causes changes to your endocrine system, and that's what causes the weight gain.
That being the case, talk to her about having you check your blood sugar. Not fun, since you get to poke holes in your fingers a dozen times a day, but isn't that worth it?
I'm sorry you're going through this. Again, believe me I know that it's more awful than your doctor is willing to admit to you. I hope that those doctors who say those hurtful things actually know that they're not helping, but maybe they believe it.
My cousin's wife is an ob/gyn. When their baby was three months old, she said over dinner that she was learning that all those things she was saying to her patients was absurd: that once she had the same stresses they had, she learned that htey weren't just being lazy. Um, DUH?
I'm sorry.
(And I'm in the worst pit imaginable right now, so sorry if I"m not making sense, or if I sound actively hostile. It's not towards you. It's just that I'd give anything not to feel anything right now.)
Posted by Racer on August 6, 2004, at 12:32:55
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol, posted by twinmom on August 5, 2004, at 10:35:17
Despite what your doctor told you, you might want to dump those diet drinks, too. The latest research I've read theorizes that the diet drinks upset your body's hunger-related hormones, thus upping your weight gain. It's too much for me to get into now, because I'm just not here right now, but the diet drinks interfere with the normal rhythms of your hunger reflexes, keeping you hungry round the clock. If you can get yourself to drinking water instead, you're likely to reset your hunger mechanisms. If you can't make yourself drink plain water, a little lemon juice in it may help. (That's what I used to do, although now I just down the stuff straight.) And you can buy those cute little plastic lemons with lemon juice in them.
It's got to do with leptin, I think, which has diurnal surges. "Normal" surges take place in the middle of the night, when you're asleep. In people who drink a lot of diet drinks, and in the overweight, it stays at a pretty steady state throughout the day. Cutting off that particular pathway by avoiding the diet drinks may help more than you think it will.
By the way, I'm not going to tell you that it's easy. I drank more of the stuff than I"m willing to admit for about 25 years. It's only in the last few months that I've finally cut way back. And I still drink two or three per day.
Posted by Simus on August 7, 2004, at 0:53:21
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol, posted by twinmom on August 5, 2004, at 10:35:17
Ramona,
I hear ya! Unfortunately, I can't help you because I am in the same boat (battling very stubborn weight gained from drugs). But if it helps, I sure do understand.
Simus
Posted by twinmom on August 8, 2004, at 21:24:04
In reply to PS » twinmom, posted by Racer on August 6, 2004, at 12:32:55
Thank You Racer - And I really hope you feel better soon - I know exactly where you are at and it is truly horrible. kind of a lame saying - but hang in there and Thanks again for your responses they are really appreciated - I'm the worst for not posting at all in my dark spots.
And I think I will start giving the water a try, the diet drinks don't seem to be helping at all, now about 7 years ago when I switched to them from regular sodas - It was a tremndous help, but there is so much research about all the good water can do for you I figure why not? Besides it's easier than trying to excercise right now - baby steps I have to keep telling myself or I will burn out and be right back where I started.Anyway, sorry for the ramble, and thanks again.
Ramona
> Despite what your doctor told you, you might want to dump those diet drinks, too. The latest research I've read theorizes that the diet drinks upset your body's hunger-related hormones, thus upping your weight gain. It's too much for me to get into now, because I'm just not here right now, but the diet drinks interfere with the normal rhythms of your hunger reflexes, keeping you hungry round the clock. If you can get yourself to drinking water instead, you're likely to reset your hunger mechanisms. If you can't make yourself drink plain water, a little lemon juice in it may help. (That's what I used to do, although now I just down the stuff straight.) And you can buy those cute little plastic lemons with lemon juice in them.
>
> It's got to do with leptin, I think, which has diurnal surges. "Normal" surges take place in the middle of the night, when you're asleep. In people who drink a lot of diet drinks, and in the overweight, it stays at a pretty steady state throughout the day. Cutting off that particular pathway by avoiding the diet drinks may help more than you think it will.
>
> By the way, I'm not going to tell you that it's easy. I drank more of the stuff than I"m willing to admit for about 25 years. It's only in the last few months that I've finally cut way back. And I still drink two or three per day.
Posted by twinmom on August 8, 2004, at 21:27:05
In reply to Re: Stress Hormone Cortisol » twinmom, posted by Simus on August 7, 2004, at 0:53:21
Simus,
Well not that I would wish this on anyone - but it is nice to hear I'm not alone - and that it may not be from me just being lazier than "normal" people.
Thanks for the support. I hope we can all find some relief.
> Ramona,
>
> I hear ya! Unfortunately, I can't help you because I am in the same boat (battling very stubborn weight gained from drugs). But if it helps, I sure do understand.
>
> Simus
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 16:33:21
In reply to PS » twinmom, posted by Racer on August 6, 2004, at 12:32:55
> If you can't make yourself drink plain water, a little lemon juice in it may help. (That's what I used to do, although now I just down the stuff straight.)
No way! You drink straight water? Wowsers. ;-)
This is the end of the thread.
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