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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on December 30, 2003, at 15:34:21
'lo, all. This is my first post on the alternative board.
I was wondering if anyone knows where to find unbiased information on links between magnesium deficiency and psychiatric disorders. I also have an overactive parathyroid. I've heard that calcium is an antagonist to magnesium. Is this true, and if so what would be a good calcium antagonist to counter it? Is there a good natural supplement or should I look at a prescribed calcium blocker like Verapamil?
As far as other alternative treatments I've tried; B vitamin superdoses make me nauseous, Fish oil, St. John's Wort, 5-HTP, etc. pooped out in less than a month.
Any insights are appreciated.
Posted by JLx on December 30, 2003, at 19:47:49
In reply to --Magnesium supplements, other questions--, posted by socialdeviantjeff on December 30, 2003, at 15:34:21
> 'lo, all. This is my first post on the alternative board.
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows where to find unbiased information on links between magnesium deficiency and psychiatric disorders. I also have an overactive parathyroid. I've heard that calcium is an antagonist to magnesium. Is this true, and if so what would be a good calcium antagonist to counter it? Is there a good natural supplement or should I look at a prescribed calcium blocker like Verapamil?Though not specifically about magnesium and psychiatric disorders, I would recommend "The Magnesium FActor" by Mildred Seelig, M.D. for exhaustive info about magnesium (including ~75 pages of small print references from medical journals).
Page 71:
"Magnesium is a natural calcium-channel blocker; as long as there is adequate magnesium inside cells, damaging calcium influx does not occur. The need for calcium-channel blockers arises from the breakdown of cell membrane integrity, which is in turn caused by a magnesium deficiency."
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2003, at 9:06:04
In reply to --Magnesium supplements, other questions--, posted by socialdeviantjeff on December 30, 2003, at 15:34:21
> 'lo, all. This is my first post on the alternative board.
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows where to find unbiased information on links between magnesium deficiency and psychiatric disorders.Those tend to be biased, as medical science does not, strictly speaking, relate psychiatric disturbance to magnesium deficiency, except in the extreme cases, called tetany.
Here are some links:
http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#synapses
http://www.mdheal.org/magnesiu1.htm
http://www.mgwater.com/>I also have an overactive parathyroid.
You know that, because...?
If you haven't already researched that, I strongly recommend you read through all the topics at:
http://www.endocrineweb.com/parathyroid.html> I've heard that calcium is an antagonist to magnesium. Is this true, and if so what would be a good calcium antagonist to counter it?
The subject is rather complex, and given your parathyroid status, the situation is different than for most people. They aren't literally mutual antagonists, but rather, the regulation of blood calcium tends to inversely affect blood magnesium. One exception occurs in frank magnesium deficiency, where bones are degraded to supply the missing magnesium; magnesium regulation over-rides calcium regulation in that case. You really should read up on hyperparathyroidism at the above site. It'll explain the nitty-gritty.
> Is there a good natural supplement or should I look at a prescribed calcium blocker like Verapamil?
You should be under a doctor's care. Hyperparathyroidism can be caused by magnesium deficiency (and a "normal" parathyroid gland will be substantially inhibited in PTH secretion by magnesium dosing), but the presence of a parathyroid adenoma or parathyroid hyperplasia needs to be confirmed or excluded.
> As far as other alternative treatments I've tried; B vitamin superdoses make me nauseous, Fish oil, St. John's Wort, 5-HTP, etc. pooped out in less than a month.
>
> Any insights are appreciated.First things first, IMHO. You may feel lousy solely because of the parathyroid problem.
Lar
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 2, 2004, at 3:09:49
In reply to Re: --Magnesium supplements, other questions-- » socialdeviantjeff, posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2003, at 9:06:04
Thanks, Mr. Hoover. I pasted your reply into Word and will go over it when my brain is more clear. Lots of fog tonight. I worded one thing wrong. I don't know if I have an overactive parathyroid per se. I went to the emergency room for syncope and was diagnosed with-get this, depression. The blood panels showed the only abnormal thing was a level of calcium very above the norm.
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 2, 2004, at 3:15:18
In reply to Re: --Magnesium supplements, other questions-- » socialdeviantjeff, posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2003, at 9:06:04
Nothing else was mentioned at the ER. The reason I don't have a doc is because I can't afford one. I'm on trade with my pdoc abd can't take on anymore work. For details on that, see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20031231/msgs/295626.html
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 2, 2004, at 7:40:45
In reply to Re: --Magnesium supplements, other questions-- » Larry Hoover, posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 2, 2004, at 3:09:49
> Thanks, Mr. Hoover. I pasted your reply into Word and will go over it when my brain is more clear. Lots of fog tonight. I worded one thing wrong. I don't know if I have an overactive parathyroid per se. I went to the emergency room for syncope and was diagnosed with-get this, depression. The blood panels showed the only abnormal thing was a level of calcium very above the norm.
I don't mean to worry you.....well, actually I do. Hypercalcemia can be life-threatening. If nothing else, few things in your body work right. Depression can be the but one of many symptoms directly related to hypercalcemia. See:
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/hypercalcemia.htm
Sorry, there are lots of pop-ups there, but it has good links to the various possible diagnoses.Hypercalcemia can be idiopathic (just a fluke of your biochemistry), or it can be a symptom of some rather nasty disorders. It *can* just be a sign of severe magnesium deficiency, but you are ill-advised to try and sort this out on your own. I note your resistance to getting on SSI, but you must do whatever you have got to do to get a definitive diagnosis. I don't know what the rules are in Utah, but I thought there were facilities that could not turn anyone away (based on TV show plots, I know, but I don't understand the richest country in the world failing to provide medical care to all its citizens <rant mode off>).
When that hospital came back with a blood result of "very above the norm" calcium concentration, they should not have diagnosed depression. Depression is caused by untreated calcium above the norm. Ya know? It's time to be a very squeaky wheel, dude. Very squeaky.
Lar
Posted by mattdds on January 2, 2004, at 10:42:56
In reply to Almost forgot » Larry Hoover, posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 2, 2004, at 3:15:18
Jeff,
Lar is right, hypercalcemia is a cause for some healthy, but serious concern, especially if they are saying it is way above the norm.
It seems extremely odd that they would jump to the conclusion of depression as a diagnosis when there is a grossly abnormal item in the blood panel. I mean, hypercalcemia is one of the biggest markers of some not-so-friendly diseases. Syncope, BTW, is not usually associated with depression either.
Generally, you would want to rule out a malignancy and primary hyperparathyroidism before looking into anything else. There are other things that can cause hypercalcemia, but those are the two biggies that you worry about when hypercalcemia is present.
Also, one of the major presenting symptoms of hypercalcemia / hyperparathyroidism *is* depression (and other psychiatric disturbances). So this could quite feasably be *causing* your symptoms.
I don't mean to scare you, but, as Larry put it, it's time to become a verrry squeaky wheel. I'm not trying to play doctor here, but those are basic things I had to learn for my pathology course in dental school.
Do what you need to in order to get a sound diagnosis. This could indeed be a serious situation. Again, not to scare you, but certainly cause for some healthy concern.
Best of luck!
Matt
P.S. Also, if you happen to be Mormon (even non-practicing), what about LDS (Mormon) social services? You could see a Mormon ecclesiastical leader (bishop) and tell him about your financial and medical situations and they generally will help you out. They tend to take very good care of their own, and often even "gentiles".
Posted by linkadge on January 2, 2004, at 16:37:20
In reply to Hypercalcemia » socialdeviantjeff, posted by mattdds on January 2, 2004, at 10:42:56
Lithium has a well established effect of increase overall grey matter in as little as a month.
I was wondering if Magnesium shared this effect??
Linkadge
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on January 3, 2004, at 3:31:33
In reply to Magnesium + GRey matter, posted by linkadge on January 2, 2004, at 16:37:20
When I heard that the calcium levels were high, I was a bit alarmed. The doc in the ER seemed to take it lightly. If I knew then what I know now I would have pressed the issue.
The Medicaid rules in Utah are screwy to say the least. Income-wise, I qualify for two of the programs. However, I can't go on disability medicaid because I'm not on SSI. I can't go on Family medicaid because I pay child support to my daughter's mother, not the other way around, even though we have joint custody. <Insert colorful metaphor here> government!
I guess there is no other choice but to try to get SSI and get to the bottom of this. I have a very hard time asserting needs when it comes to just me, but obviously there is a potential for serious consequences if I don't. Squeaky wheel. I's time I turned and made some noise.
Thanks, I'll keep y'all posted.
This is the end of the thread.
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