![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by twinleaf on January 10, 2011, at 11:55:03
the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
Posted by Solstice on January 10, 2011, at 12:31:54
In reply to it's long past the time to start solving..., posted by twinleaf on January 10, 2011, at 11:55:03
Lotsa timely (and good) points in your post, Twinleaf.
As for what happened to the Community Council proposal - - it's a mystery to me as well. Bob has been quiet for weeks now. I'd suggested that he open up the month of January for solicitations from the community for the five names they would like to see on the Council.
My sense is that it's bogged down in things like this:
1. The issue of whether council is seated by campaigns and votes, or by soliciting nominations and picking the top five folks who are willing to serve
2. A lack of clarity about the role and function of Council
3. Potential council members' fears that they may become targets as a result of their decisions to let a block stand as-is, or not reducing a block as much as others would have wished.There may be other things that have it stuck that I'm overlooking - but that's what I've come up with so far. It sure would be nice to see Bob actively push this thing through.
Solstice
> the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
>
> It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
>
> Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
>
> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
>
> The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
>
> This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
Posted by twinleaf on January 10, 2011, at 13:22:48
In reply to Re: it's long past the time to start solving..., posted by Solstice on January 10, 2011, at 12:31:54
Thanks for the update. During the discussions about the Council, I got quite a strong impression that Bob felt that it was a good idea - good for him and good for us, so I am surprised to see that nothing has happened recently.. I guess all we can do now is ask him to take up the planning where he left off. If we see one problem solved skillfully, it should help everyone feel more hopeful about all the other ones.
Posted by 10derheart on January 10, 2011, at 13:28:19
In reply to Re: it's long past the time to start solving..., posted by Solstice on January 10, 2011, at 12:31:54
My sense is that this is perfectly normal behavior from Dr. Bob. Same stuff, different day/month/year.
He is busy. Really busy. "Too" busy? {shrug} That's only for him to personally choose, I suppose.
He does not/cannot/ will not give babble any higher priority than he does, no matter how we complain and wish for that.
It's January - a new semester at school. He works at a large school; he may still counsel students. he may be extremely busy. And that is without knowing of any other projects and/or professional and personal commitments and responsibilities he has.
Babble is a website and a community that he has been deeply invested in for many years....but it is still not #1, never has been, never will be IMO, unless he retires from his pdoc job or drastically changes his life.
When I and others have said this before usuully posters respond that if this is so, Dr. Bob should allow others to run Babble, get student help, etc. All good ideas but he has been repeatedly unwilling or unable to do so. This really is what it is.
I just don't see a few weeks between discussing the furtherance of an idea, etc. as any sort of long period of time for him, given his total history. Long absences with tiny little "hit and run" postings (Usually in the middle of the night) to redirect posts, (lately) tweet posts, etc., seem to be the normal pattern and one he has never seriously changed.
I can only recommend extreme patience and radical acceptance.
Posted by twinleaf on January 10, 2011, at 13:37:24
In reply to Re: it's long past the time to start solving..., posted by 10derheart on January 10, 2011, at 13:28:19
All of us old-timers know that your assessment is accurate. Still, I, for one, would not have expected that Bob would plan seriously for a Community Council. That was a really new, different behavior from him.
Posted by 10derheart on January 10, 2011, at 14:13:48
In reply to Re: it's long past the time to start solving..., posted by twinleaf on January 10, 2011, at 13:37:24
I'd have to agree with that.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 14:15:11
In reply to it's long past the time to start solving..., posted by twinleaf on January 10, 2011, at 11:55:03
> the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
>
> It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
>
> Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
>
> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
>
> The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
>
> This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?twinleaf,
You wrote,[...better for them to leave...a forum like this..causing posters to...not providing support...causing distress and harm...].[...the present notification system is not solving...].[....What happened to ..council...?]
When there are known and obviouus risks to people's mental health and safety, one that disregards or is indifferent to the consequences of their not acting when the known and obvious risks to another's health or safety is in question, can be held responsible for injuries or deaths as a result of their {negligence} to act. It does not matter if one intended for the injuries or deaths to happen. An example that is used to describe negligence is when a parent leaves a loaded gun on a table with small children there. The parent does not intend for one child to take the gun and point it at another child and pull the trigger resulting in the death of another in the house, but the result is the same. The parent leaving the loaded gun on the table was negligent. It would not matter if the parent fell asleep. That parent would be charged with a crime where the jurisdiction defines criminal negligence as disregarding the knowwn and obvious risks of leaving a loaded gun on the table where children are. Another popular example is a person driving drunk and slams into another car killing an occupant. The drunk driver did not intend to kill the other occupant but in my jurisdiction this happend and women was sentenced to 10 years in prison for criminal negligence, even though she did not intend to kill the other person.
You see, the people that are leaving may think that there is a danger for them to be here. What is plainly visible can be seen. Everybodys talking about a new way by council but it's still (redacted by respondent) to me.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 14:57:56
In reply to Lou's response-pstlrhknro » twinleaf, posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 14:15:11
> > the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
> >
> > It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
> >
> > Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
> >
> > WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
> >
> > The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
> >
> > This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
>
> twinleaf,
> You wrote,[...better for them to leave...a forum like this..causing posters to...not providing support...causing distress and harm...].[...the present notification system is not solving...].[....What happened to ..council...?]
> When there are known and obviouus risks to people's mental health and safety, one that disregards or is indifferent to the consequences of their not acting when the known and obvious risks to another's health or safety is in question, can be held responsible for injuries or deaths as a result of their {negligence} to act. It does not matter if one intended for the injuries or deaths to happen. An example that is used to describe negligence is when a parent leaves a loaded gun on a table with small children there. The parent does not intend for one child to take the gun and point it at another child and pull the trigger resulting in the death of another in the house, but the result is the same. The parent leaving the loaded gun on the table was negligent. It would not matter if the parent fell asleep. That parent would be charged with a crime where the jurisdiction defines criminal negligence as disregarding the knowwn and obvious risks of leaving a loaded gun on the table where children are. Another popular example is a person driving drunk and slams into another car killing an occupant. The drunk driver did not intend to kill the other occupant but in my jurisdiction this happend and women was sentenced to 10 years in prison for criminal negligence, even though she did not intend to kill the other person.
> You see, the people that are leaving may think that there is a danger for them to be here. What is plainly visible can be seen. Everybodys talking about a new way by council but it's still (redacted by respondent) to me.
> Loutl,
You wrote what you see, and I also see it. And one can know it when it can be seen.
But there is a much greater responsibility for those that have a duty to act. Who has a duty to act here? Is it the owner that operates the site, or the members, or someone else?
If one is to be responsible to act, that person must have knowledge of the danger to the health or saftey of the members here. The members here may not have that knowledge. But if I have that knowledge, I use the notification system provided to accomplish the heading off of any harm to another by alerting the administration of what I see as a danger to another's health or safety. Then I use the reminder provision if there is no response. Then there is the provision to keep reminding the administration of outstanding notifications and requests. I think that members that also have that kind of knowledge to stay here to help protect others from harm.
What can be seen here is the numerous outstanding notifications at the same time as people leaving here. Is there a connection? I do not think that could be known unless others post comments here in regards to that. But if people feel unsafe here due to the administration leaving notifications outstanding, then is that not a ligitimate reason to leave? And is it any member's fault if that is the case here? But if you have to leave here to be safe, don't think twice, it's alright.
Lou
Posted by sigismund on January 10, 2011, at 15:58:20
In reply to Lou's response-doughntthnkptwic, posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 14:57:56
I just think everything ends badly.
Maybe not always. But you die, don't you? That's not good. Then again, maybe it is?
It gives me no pleasure for this to be true of Babble, because the people have been so much a part of my life and are so interesting and so on.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 20:11:29
In reply to Lou's response-doughntthnkptwic, posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 14:57:56
> > > the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
> > >
> > > It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
> > >
> > > Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
> > >
> > > WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
> > >
> > > The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
> > >
> > > This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
> >
> > twinleaf,
> > You wrote,[...better for them to leave...a forum like this..causing posters to...not providing support...causing distress and harm...].[...the present notification system is not solving...].[....What happened to ..council...?]
> > When there are known and obviouus risks to people's mental health and safety, one that disregards or is indifferent to the consequences of their not acting when the known and obvious risks to another's health or safety is in question, can be held responsible for injuries or deaths as a result of their {negligence} to act. It does not matter if one intended for the injuries or deaths to happen. An example that is used to describe negligence is when a parent leaves a loaded gun on a table with small children there. The parent does not intend for one child to take the gun and point it at another child and pull the trigger resulting in the death of another in the house, but the result is the same. The parent leaving the loaded gun on the table was negligent. It would not matter if the parent fell asleep. That parent would be charged with a crime where the jurisdiction defines criminal negligence as disregarding the knowwn and obvious risks of leaving a loaded gun on the table where children are. Another popular example is a person driving drunk and slams into another car killing an occupant. The drunk driver did not intend to kill the other occupant but in my jurisdiction this happend and women was sentenced to 10 years in prison for criminal negligence, even though she did not intend to kill the other person.
> > You see, the people that are leaving may think that there is a danger for them to be here. What is plainly visible can be seen. Everybodys talking about a new way by council but it's still (redacted by respondent) to me.
> > Lou
>
> tl,
> You wrote what you see, and I also see it. And one can know it when it can be seen.
> But there is a much greater responsibility for those that have a duty to act. Who has a duty to act here? Is it the owner that operates the site, or the members, or someone else?
> If one is to be responsible to act, that person must have knowledge of the danger to the health or saftey of the members here. The members here may not have that knowledge. But if I have that knowledge, I use the notification system provided to accomplish the heading off of any harm to another by alerting the administration of what I see as a danger to another's health or safety. Then I use the reminder provision if there is no response. Then there is the provision to keep reminding the administration of outstanding notifications and requests. I think that members that also have that kind of knowledge to stay here to help protect others from harm.
> What can be seen here is the numerous outstanding notifications at the same time as people leaving here. Is there a connection? I do not think that could be known unless others post comments here in regards to that. But if people feel unsafe here due to the administration leaving notifications outstanding, then is that not a ligitimate reason to leave? And is it any member's fault if that is the case here? But if you have to leave here to be safe, don't think twice, it's alright.
> Lou
>
Friends,
When some people see posts here that give them some type of feeling of superiority, be it true or a false superiority, some can get a gun and shoot people that are in the post as the ones that the statement could give them this (false) feeling of superiority. They then could think to target the ones in the post {if the statement is allowed to stand}.
There are kids carrying bookbags peeking through the portals of this website after school. They can see this:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/949618.html
And they could think what the post purports is true because a psychiatrist allows it. And they could have feelings (false) of superiority. And they could follow out the historical (redacted by respondent) toward the Jews, or target a Jew with a pistol in the delusional mind that they think that they are doing what will be good for the country as a whole. But are not the members also responsible for allowing it to stand?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 11, 2011, at 17:46:24
In reply to Lou's response-gudphoardhakumuntee, posted by Lou Pilder on January 10, 2011, at 20:11:29
> > > > the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
> > > >
> > > > It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
> > > >
> > > > Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
> > > >
> > > > WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
> > > >
> > > > The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
> > > >
> > > > This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
> > >
> > > twinleaf,
> > > You wrote,[...better for them to leave...a forum like this..causing posters to...not providing support...causing distress and harm...].[...the present notification system is not solving...].[....What happened to ..council...?]
> > > When there are known and obviouus risks to people's mental health and safety, one that disregards or is indifferent to the consequences of their not acting when the known and obvious risks to another's health or safety is in question, can be held responsible for injuries or deaths as a result of their {negligence} to act. It does not matter if one intended for the injuries or deaths to happen. An example that is used to describe negligence is when a parent leaves a loaded gun on a table with small children there. The parent does not intend for one child to take the gun and point it at another child and pull the trigger resulting in the death of another in the house, but the result is the same. The parent leaving the loaded gun on the table was negligent. It would not matter if the parent fell asleep. That parent would be charged with a crime where the jurisdiction defines criminal negligence as disregarding the knowwn and obvious risks of leaving a loaded gun on the table where children are. Another popular example is a person driving drunk and slams into another car killing an occupant. The drunk driver did not intend to kill the other occupant but in my jurisdiction this happend and women was sentenced to 10 years in prison for criminal negligence, even though she did not intend to kill the other person.
> > > You see, the people that are leaving may think that there is a danger for them to be here. What is plainly visible can be seen. Everybodys talking about a new way by council but it's still (redacted by respondent) to me.
> > > Lou
> >
> > tl,
> > You wrote what you see, and I also see it. And one can know it when it can be seen.
> > But there is a much greater responsibility for those that have a duty to act. Who has a duty to act here? Is it the owner that operates the site, or the members, or someone else?
> > If one is to be responsible to act, that person must have knowledge of the danger to the health or saftey of the members here. The members here may not have that knowledge. But if I have that knowledge, I use the notification system provided to accomplish the heading off of any harm to another by alerting the administration of what I see as a danger to another's health or safety. Then I use the reminder provision if there is no response. Then there is the provision to keep reminding the administration of outstanding notifications and requests. I think that members that also have that kind of knowledge to stay here to help protect others from harm.
> > What can be seen here is the numerous outstanding notifications at the same time as people leaving here. Is there a connection? I do not think that could be known unless others post comments here in regards to that. But if people feel unsafe here due to the administration leaving notifications outstanding, then is that not a ligitimate reason to leave? And is it any member's fault if that is the case here? But if you have to leave here to be safe, don't think twice, it's alright.
> > Lou
> >
> Friends,
> When some people see posts here that give them some type of feeling of superiority, be it true or a false superiority, some can get a gun and shoot people that are in the post as the ones that the statement could give them this (false) feeling of superiority. They then could think to target the ones in the post {if the statement is allowed to stand}.
> There are kids carrying bookbags peeking through the portals of this website after school. They can see this:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/949618.html
> And they could think what the post purports is true because a psychiatrist allows it. And they could have feelings (false) of superiority. And they could follow out the historical (redacted by respondent) toward the Jews, or target a Jew with a pistol in the delusional mind that they think that they are doing what will be good for the country as a whole. But are not the members also responsible for allowing it to stand?
> LouFriends,
Here is another post that I think could offer more clarification concerning outstanding notifications that is related to the post above this.
I am requesting that if you are concerned that there could be people that belong to a supremist group that reads this, that they could have support to carry out murder in regards that the psychiatrist here is saying that it is {OK} for one to post the post here in question. Now {OK] does not have to mean that the statement in question is supportive here, and I am requesting that Mr. Hsiung post here to tell those that read it that he either considers the statement in question supportive or not.
If you are concerned that my request is outstanding, and that a significant time lag could give any encouragement to one that reads the statement in question to target a Jewish person or any other person that does not accept the claim that is in the post concerning that only those that {redacted by respondent} have forgiveness and Eternal Life, I am asking for you to post your thoughts about this here.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babbble/admin/20100321/msgs/951879.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 11, 2011, at 17:48:37
In reply to Lou's response-, posted by Lou Pilder on January 11, 2011, at 17:46:24
> > > > > the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
> > > > >
> > > > > It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
> > > > >
> > > > > WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
> > > > >
> > > > > The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
> > > > >
> > > > > This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
> > > >
> > > > twinleaf,
> > > > You wrote,[...better for them to leave...a forum like this..causing posters to...not providing support...causing distress and harm...].[...the present notification system is not solving...].[....What happened to ..council...?]
> > > > When there are known and obviouus risks to people's mental health and safety, one that disregards or is indifferent to the consequences of their not acting when the known and obvious risks to another's health or safety is in question, can be held responsible for injuries or deaths as a result of their {negligence} to act. It does not matter if one intended for the injuries or deaths to happen. An example that is used to describe negligence is when a parent leaves a loaded gun on a table with small children there. The parent does not intend for one child to take the gun and point it at another child and pull the trigger resulting in the death of another in the house, but the result is the same. The parent leaving the loaded gun on the table was negligent. It would not matter if the parent fell asleep. That parent would be charged with a crime where the jurisdiction defines criminal negligence as disregarding the knowwn and obvious risks of leaving a loaded gun on the table where children are. Another popular example is a person driving drunk and slams into another car killing an occupant. The drunk driver did not intend to kill the other occupant but in my jurisdiction this happend and women was sentenced to 10 years in prison for criminal negligence, even though she did not intend to kill the other person.
> > > > You see, the people that are leaving may think that there is a danger for them to be here. What is plainly visible can be seen. Everybodys talking about a new way by council but it's still (redacted by respondent) to me.
> > > > Lou
> > >
> > > tl,
> > > You wrote what you see, and I also see it. And one can know it when it can be seen.
> > > But there is a much greater responsibility for those that have a duty to act. Who has a duty to act here? Is it the owner that operates the site, or the members, or someone else?
> > > If one is to be responsible to act, that person must have knowledge of the danger to the health or saftey of the members here. The members here may not have that knowledge. But if I have that knowledge, I use the notification system provided to accomplish the heading off of any harm to another by alerting the administration of what I see as a danger to another's health or safety. Then I use the reminder provision if there is no response. Then there is the provision to keep reminding the administration of outstanding notifications and requests. I think that members that also have that kind of knowledge to stay here to help protect others from harm.
> > > What can be seen here is the numerous outstanding notifications at the same time as people leaving here. Is there a connection? I do not think that could be known unless others post comments here in regards to that. But if people feel unsafe here due to the administration leaving notifications outstanding, then is that not a ligitimate reason to leave? And is it any member's fault if that is the case here? But if you have to leave here to be safe, don't think twice, it's alright.
> > > Lou
> > >
> > Friends,
> > When some people see posts here that give them some type of feeling of superiority, be it true or a false superiority, some can get a gun and shoot people that are in the post as the ones that the statement could give them this (false) feeling of superiority. They then could think to target the ones in the post {if the statement is allowed to stand}.
> > There are kids carrying bookbags peeking through the portals of this website after school. They can see this:
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/949618.html
> > And they could think what the post purports is true because a psychiatrist allows it. And they could have feelings (false) of superiority. And they could follow out the historical (redacted by respondent) toward the Jews, or target a Jew with a pistol in the delusional mind that they think that they are doing what will be good for the country as a whole. But are not the members also responsible for allowing it to stand?
> > Lou
>
> Friends,
> Here is another post that I think could offer more clarification concerning outstanding notifications that is related to the post above this.
> I am requesting that if you are concerned that there could be people that belong to a supremist group that reads this, that they could have support to carry out murder in regards that the psychiatrist here is saying that it is {OK} for one to post the post here in question. Now {OK] does not have to mean that the statement in question is supportive here, and I am requesting that Mr. Hsiung post here to tell those that read it that he either considers the statement in question supportive or not.
> If you are concerned that my request is outstanding, and that a significant time lag could give any encouragement to one that reads the statement in question to target a Jewish person or any other person that does not accept the claim that is in the post concerning that only those that {redacted by respondent} have forgiveness and Eternal Life, I am asking for you to post your thoughts about this here.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babbble/admin/20100321/msgs/951879.htmlhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/951879.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 11, 2011, at 21:40:27
In reply to Re: Lou's response-correction, posted by Lou Pilder on January 11, 2011, at 17:48:37
> > > > > > the problems which have been plaguing Babble. It's heartbreaking to see so many posters, ones who have meant so much, finally deciding that it's better for them to leave. A forum like this, devoted to mental health, should not be causing posters to have a flare-up in their symptoms, like Dinah, or blame themselves excessively, like Maxime..Not only is our community now not providing support, it is apparently causing distress and harm.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It appears that there is just too heavy a burden of unsolved problems. For several years, we have had difficulty with issues of degrees of privacy (FB/Twitter) and excessively long blocks. Now,there is the added problem of posters causing distress to other posters via Babblemail. Painful as it is, if it is happening, it needs to be brought out into the open and faced. And it is pretty clear that the present notification system is not solving this problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Despite this overload, many of us who have been here a long time cherish the memory of Babble as it once was (for me, it was 2003-3007). We will do a lot in the hope of restoring it. I would love to be able to participate openly on Psychology the way I once did. I left a few months ago because it seemed as though I was facing a year's block if I so much as mentioned what I considered to be injustices in how the blocks were applied. Then when it appeared that we might get a community council. I began posting again in support of that. It would help my particular situation tremendously.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLANS FOR A COMMUNITY COUNCIL????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Council could have made an excellent start by shortening blocks, and could well have eventually proved useful in handling situations like inappropriate Babblemail communications and perhaps even enabling the community to have a say in how relatively easy or difficult disseminating information from Babble throughout the internet should be. Even if just blocking issues are addressed, it is a move towards a more democratic and mutually respectful relationship with Bob.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This seems like the closest we have come to having Babble end in a catastrophe. I thought almost all of the initial plans for the Council had been worked out, and that we were about to start, Is there something I missed?
> > > > >
> > > > > twinleaf,
> > > > > You wrote,[...better for them to leave...a forum like this..causing posters to...not providing support...causing distress and harm...].[...the present notification system is not solving...].[....What happened to ..council...?]
> > > > > When there are known and obviouus risks to people's mental health and safety, one that disregards or is indifferent to the consequences of their not acting when the known and obvious risks to another's health or safety is in question, can be held responsible for injuries or deaths as a result of their {negligence} to act. It does not matter if one intended for the injuries or deaths to happen. An example that is used to describe negligence is when a parent leaves a loaded gun on a table with small children there. The parent does not intend for one child to take the gun and point it at another child and pull the trigger resulting in the death of another in the house, but the result is the same. The parent leaving the loaded gun on the table was negligent. It would not matter if the parent fell asleep. That parent would be charged with a crime where the jurisdiction defines criminal negligence as disregarding the knowwn and obvious risks of leaving a loaded gun on the table where children are. Another popular example is a person driving drunk and slams into another car killing an occupant. The drunk driver did not intend to kill the other occupant but in my jurisdiction this happend and women was sentenced to 10 years in prison for criminal negligence, even though she did not intend to kill the other person.
> > > > > You see, the people that are leaving may think that there is a danger for them to be here. What is plainly visible can be seen. Everybodys talking about a new way by council but it's still (redacted by respondent) to me.
> > > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > > tl,
> > > > You wrote what you see, and I also see it. And one can know it when it can be seen.
> > > > But there is a much greater responsibility for those that have a duty to act. Who has a duty to act here? Is it the owner that operates the site, or the members, or someone else?
> > > > If one is to be responsible to act, that person must have knowledge of the danger to the health or saftey of the members here. The members here may not have that knowledge. But if I have that knowledge, I use the notification system provided to accomplish the heading off of any harm to another by alerting the administration of what I see as a danger to another's health or safety. Then I use the reminder provision if there is no response. Then there is the provision to keep reminding the administration of outstanding notifications and requests. I think that members that also have that kind of knowledge to stay here to help protect others from harm.
> > > > What can be seen here is the numerous outstanding notifications at the same time as people leaving here. Is there a connection? I do not think that could be known unless others post comments here in regards to that. But if people feel unsafe here due to the administration leaving notifications outstanding, then is that not a ligitimate reason to leave? And is it any member's fault if that is the case here? But if you have to leave here to be safe, don't think twice, it's alright.
> > > > Lou
> > > >
> > > Friends,
> > > When some people see posts here that give them some type of feeling of superiority, be it true or a false superiority, some can get a gun and shoot people that are in the post as the ones that the statement could give them this (false) feeling of superiority. They then could think to target the ones in the post {if the statement is allowed to stand}.
> > > There are kids carrying bookbags peeking through the portals of this website after school. They can see this:
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/949618.html
> > > And they could think what the post purports is true because a psychiatrist allows it. And they could have feelings (false) of superiority. And they could follow out the historical (redacted by respondent) toward the Jews, or target a Jew with a pistol in the delusional mind that they think that they are doing what will be good for the country as a whole. But are not the members also responsible for allowing it to stand?
> > > Lou
> >
> > Friends,
> > Here is another post that I think could offer more clarification concerning outstanding notifications that is related to the post above this.
> > I am requesting that if you are concerned that there could be people that belong to a supremist group that reads this, that they could have support to carry out murder in regards that the psychiatrist here is saying that it is {OK} for one to post the post here in question. Now {OK] does not have to mean that the statement in question is supportive here, and I am requesting that Mr. Hsiung post here to tell those that read it that he either considers the statement in question supportive or not.
> > If you are concerned that my request is outstanding, and that a significant time lag could give any encouragement to one that reads the statement in question to target a Jewish person or any other person that does not accept the claim that is in the post concerning that only those that {redacted by respondent} have forgiveness and Eternal Life, I am asking for you to post your thoughts about this here.
> > Lou
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babbble/admin/20100321/msgs/951879.html
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/951879.htmlFriends,
Here is something thatI would like to add to this discussion that Mr. Hsiung agrees as to what can be thought if a post is left unsanctioned here.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20081003/msgs/863780.html
This is the end of the thread.
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