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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yxibow on September 27, 2009, at 4:45:30
Regarding my statement, it is a direct reference to what Sarah Palin had alluded to and said -- I see no reason why it is not civil since it is right in the NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/us/politics/08baby.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
My comment on it...
If you want to interpret the added "equally offensive", it was because I was offended that mental illness is a gift. I have suffered with it for 22 years and it is just something that is one part of who I am.
With regards to the paragraph....
....
If one wants to think of mental illness as a "gift", go ahead... I could counter that with an equally offensive nature of a certain ex-candidate vice president who thought her mentally challenged baby would be a "gift".... but this isn't the place for religion anyhow.
....
If you copy from the NY Times article which I was alluding to but not getting into because I don't want to rehash political debate:
"Many people will express sympathy, but you dont want or need that, because Trig will be a joy, Ms. Palin wrote. She added, Children are the most precious and promising ingredient in this mixed-up world you live in down there on Earth. Trig is no different, except he has one extra chromosome."
There's nothing here that hasn't already been published over and over again, Bob.
Anyhow I object to the PBC because it was a reparte (however intricate you want to dissect it) about comparing my mental illness as a gift to deciding to bring a child into the world who will clearly be mentally disabled.
If my point was taken as uncivil, I apologize but I found the religious comments also, as a Jew, baffling and somewhat offensive too in the whole thread.
-- tidings.
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2009, at 11:13:37
In reply to Regarding PBC on Sarah Palin, posted by yxibow on September 27, 2009, at 4:45:30
Jay looked on politics didn't see it? Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2009, at 16:53:10
In reply to Regarding PBC on Sarah Palin, posted by yxibow on September 27, 2009, at 4:45:30
> Regarding my statement, it is a direct reference to what Sarah Palin had alluded to and said -- I see no reason why it is not civil since it is right in the NY Times
Not everything in the NY Times is civil. It has a different mission.
> If you want to interpret the added "equally offensive", it was because I was offended that mental illness is a gift. I have suffered with it for 22 years and it is just something that is one part of who I am.
You don't have to agree, but you can disagree without calling it offensive.
> Anyhow I object to the PBC because it was a reparte (however intricate you want to dissect it) about comparing my mental illness as a gift to deciding to bring a child into the world who will clearly be mentally disabled.
I think one potential source of confusion was whether it was mental illness or a child that was considered a gift.
> If my point was taken as uncivil, I apologize
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on September 27, 2009, at 23:38:29
In reply to Regarding PBC on Sarah Palin, posted by yxibow on September 27, 2009, at 4:45:30
Mental illness counts as a gift in a culture of cruelty.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2009, at 8:26:32
In reply to Re: Regarding PBC on Sarah Palin, posted by Sigismund on September 27, 2009, at 23:38:29
> Mental illness counts as a gift in a culture of cruelty.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding culture to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20090827/msgs/918937.html
That'll be considered a new thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on September 29, 2009, at 21:53:52
In reply to Redirect: culture, posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2009, at 8:26:32
Dr. Bob, if I understand correctly, it is now ok under Babble civility guidelines to suggest that a group of people should be killed before birth? Which groups would it be ok to say this about?
Is it that you don't think anyone with Down Syndrome could possibly be a Babbler? Or parents of those with Down Syndrome? If Chris Burke were to post here, would you consider it civil to say his parents should have terminated him? Does anyone have his email address?
Have I somehow misunderstood the issue at hand?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 6, 2009, at 16:13:39
In reply to Re: Redirect: culture » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on September 29, 2009, at 21:53:52
> Dr. Bob, if I understand correctly, it is now ok under Babble civility guidelines to suggest that a group of people should be killed before birth?
No, that's not now OK.
Bob
Posted by yxibow on October 8, 2009, at 16:39:38
In reply to Re: civility guidelines, posted by Dr. Bob on October 6, 2009, at 16:13:39
> > Dr. Bob, if I understand correctly, it is now ok under Babble civility guidelines to suggest that a group of people should be killed before birth?
>
> No, that's not now OK.
>
> BobI think this is just about the last time I will officially post on social or political issues/boards.
There is no way of getting my view across -- apparently I can't say certain ways of expressing mental illness is a "gift" is offensive to a very long term sufferer (myself) of such a condition.
And now here I see what I believe to be a "civility guideline" question under the guise of a political or religious ideology which can't be debated.
And apparently its not civil to say what I believe to be patently obvious about knowingly carrying to term a -fetus-, a non-living entity, someone who cannot live outside the body, to term with severe complications to the fetus.
Social and Political boards will not work here if people cannot express their "pro-choice" or (the misnomer, in my own personal opinion) "pro-life" views, and have them be called civil or not civil.
The previous poster knows from discussion well aware that I hold nothing against mentally challenged people and in fact went to school with several.The sidebar here is twisting my views out of place -- I'm not suggesting euthanasia for LIVING people.
I'm merely pointing out just how much it would cost emotionally, and monetarily to bring to term a fetus when a test has already been performed to a high accuracy, severely disabled. I think those things should be weighed heavily.
But some people have a completely different view.
So, I can't stop that, but please don't put my view as "killing" people. I'm talking scientifically about fetuses, and I believe, I hope as a scientist yourself, Bob, you can recognize that difference..
This concludes my posting or redirects to Social/Political/Religious boards because I cannot get my scientific viewpoints across, nor can I rationally argue politics as I would with someone across a table, on here.
Hopefully I will not get entangled in these things, but I don't see how this couldn't happen again on another subject.
- tidings.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 10, 2009, at 13:34:38
In reply to Re: civility guidelines » Dr. Bob, posted by yxibow on October 8, 2009, at 16:39:38
> There is no way of getting my view across -- apparently I can't say certain ways of expressing mental illness is a "gift" is offensive to a very long term sufferer (myself) of such a condition.
It may not be as strong a statement as you'd like to make, but I think it's possible to get your views across. You could say, for example:
> > As a very long term sufferer of mental illness, I don't consider it a gift.
> And now here I see what I believe to be a "civility guideline" question under the guise of a political or religious ideology which can't be debated.
Both sides in debates need to be civil. Whether it's supportive or educational to debate political or religious ideology in the first place is another question.
> And apparently its not civil to say what I believe to be patently obvious about knowingly carrying to term a -fetus-, a non-living entity, someone who cannot live outside the body, to term with severe complications to the fetus.
It's civil to say what you believe for yourself, for example:
> > I would never carry to term a fetus with severe complications. It would cost so much emotionally and monetarily. I think those things should be weighed heavily.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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