![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 55 to 79 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kath on July 28, 2009, at 18:33:38
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 7:15:09
Dear Lou
>[...The top 10 worst reasons for organized religion...]
>Then in number 5 the member lists;
[...to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christ...]There are lots of religions that are not centered in Christ. I'm not a scholar by any means but the ones that come to mind are:
Hinduism
Islam
BuddhismSo the way I see it, statement #5 could be interpretted as "anti-" lots of things....not just "anti-" one thing.
I only had the mental energy to read your actual post, not the material above it. But this is my 'take' on judging that statement #5.
Kind thoughts, Kath
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 28, 2009, at 20:27:45
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism-nvragn, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 15:50:22
>Look at what you allow here to remain unnotated as being uncivil
>the last link in the post has statements that could lead a Jew to feel accused/put down that are left to stand.
>....that antisemitic statement to stand.Please follow site guidelines by using the Notification system *only* to point out posts you think are uncivil. Please do not refer to them specifically or post links to them on the board.
You have been asked not to do this before and blocked for posting something similar, so I am going to again block you from posting for one week.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism-nvragn, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 15:50:22
> I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
> You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> What about my feelings?I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
> You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
> there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
> Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
Bob
Posted by Deneb on August 8, 2009, at 18:22:06
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
((((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))
You're so kind. I love you.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 9, 2009, at 10:12:16
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You asked me a question here as to identification of ant-Semitic posts if any.
You have made rules so that I do not know if I could or could not answer your question. The rules are:
A. Do not post more then 3 consecutive posts. I would need more than that to post a reply to you here.
B. Use the notification system
I have nummerous outstanding requests so I am unsure if any further notifications could be placed ahead of the outstanding ones or not.
C. The notifications have been replied to me by your designate as that they would be responded to as soon as possible. That could mean that at this time it is impossible to respond. If you want it to mean something else, could you post your meaning here? Then if it is impossible to respond to those, what could be that could make it possible for you to respond to any other request? And you have posted that replies to me are to be considered to come from all of you, but I am unsure as to if there are exceptions or not to that statement posted by you to me here.
D. other aspects not listed
If you could post here how I could post an answer your question to me so that I could have an expectation of a reply from you today, then I could feel more comfortable in posting a reply to your request to me here.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 9, 2009, at 13:36:21
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[... being ridiculed and characterized as evil...I doubt that you are alone...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post here clarification to the following, then I could know what you are wanting to mean and respond.
A. Would my feelings be any more or less to you if there are or are not others that have had the same experiance here or outside this mental health community?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Deneb on August 10, 2009, at 11:39:57
In reply to Re: I wish Dr. Bob could be my friend, posted by Deneb on July 26, 2009, at 23:07:56
I wish I had magical powers and could stop and start time whenever I wanted. I could then "awaken" anyone I wanted. Plus, I wish I could teleport anywhere I wanted to and if I touch another person, he or she would teleport with me.
Then we can have a Babble Party anytime we wanted. Maybe Dr. Bob would get stressed out or something and then he could Babblemail me that he wants some time out. So then I could stop time, teleport to Chicago and then awaken Dr. Bob. Then we'd go around to other parts of the world gathering Babblers and go somewhere really neat, like Hawaii, Las Vegas, Disney World or New Zealand or something and we'd have a lot of fun.
Then when we want to go back to real life, we'd just teleport back and start time again.
We'd have fun whenever we wanted, transportation and time constraints would not be a problem for anyone.
Babble Parties are really fun. I don't talk a lot, but I am having lots of fun when I'm with Babblers and Dr. Bob.
Dr. Bob is a really fun guy to be around.
I hope we have Babble Parties every year and I could go to every one of them and we'd go until we were all old and grey and we'd all live to be in our 100's and still go to Babble Parties.
Posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 14:56:02
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on August 9, 2009, at 13:36:21
>> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated.
In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
Posted by BayLeaf on August 10, 2009, at 20:56:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 14:56:02
I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
bay
Posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 2:16:21
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx » Sigismund, posted by BayLeaf on August 10, 2009, at 20:56:35
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx » Sigismund, posted by BayLeaf on August 10, 2009, at 20:56:35
> I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
Me, too. One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
I also liked:
> > In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
A decent community will be civil.
Scapegoating can be complicated, though, and the individual as well as the community may play (often unintentionally) a role.
Bob
Posted by 10derHeart on August 11, 2009, at 3:30:29
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 14:56:02
Who decides who and when, or if, members are vulnerable? What if someone see themselves as vulnerable and others do not see that?
It's complicated.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 11, 2009, at 4:50:33
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
> > I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
>
> Me, too. One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
>
> I also liked:
>
> > > In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
>
> A decent community will be civil.
>
> Scapegoating can be complicated, though, and the individual as well as the community may play (often unintentionally) a role.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil...].
I do not feel comfortable when I read that statement of yours. I am afraid that others could make conclusions from what you wrote because of that there is the potential in my opinion for unspecified members to be the object members in your statement since you do not include spacific member's names. It is possible IMO that you could be referring to many members here for the community at large does not know the criteria that you use to determine which members fall in the catagory of unwilling or unable to be civil. If you could post here your rationale (criteria) that you use to lable a member unwilling or unable, then members could place themselves or not in your group that you are referring to and respond if they like to you.
It is my fear that others could take from what you wrote a form of stigmatization of the unspecified members in your statement, myself included, and that any mermber here IMO that has been told by you to be civil could potentially be thought to be in the catagory of the type of member that you write of here, myself being one of those members. I would need more than 3 consecutive posts to fully describe my feelings here concerning this type of statement that you posted here. I would like to post the historical parallels where that statement had been used and the results to the peoples and the community itself that had it's leader(s) make a statement of that nature.
I would also need answers from you to the numerous requests from me to you that are outstanding, and also the outstanding notifications, in order to fully post a response to your statement here in question that you posted so that it is to the community as a response to a member's post.
I think that it could be fair to me if you could post replies to all of the outstanding requests and such so that I could have the opportunity to respond to your statement in question here fully in order to defend myself from the potential IMO of being stigmatized by the statement in question and possibly be a victim of anti-Semitic violence since you at this time are unwilling to post in the threads a sanction to statements that could lead a Jew to feel accused or put down can be seen.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 11, 2009, at 5:50:36
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
> > I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
>
> Me, too. One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
>
> I also liked:
>
> > > In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
>
> A decent community will be civil.
>
> Scapegoating can be complicated, though, and the individual as well as the community may play (often unintentionally) a role.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...the individual..may play (often unintentionally)..a role (in scapegoating)...]
That may be factual, but I do not feel comfortable here in that since there is not a specified individual in your statement here, many members could have the potential IMO to think that they are in your catagory in question. If you could specify the criteria, (your rationale), that you would use to make such a determination, if you would use such, then members could see what they are and determine if you are or are not including them in your statement or not and respond if they like to you.
I would also need more than 3 consecutive posts to fully express my concerns here in regards to a leader posting such a statement to the community. I would also like to post here the historical parallels where a leader has promulgated such a statement and the results to the peoples and the country that the statement of that nature led to.
I am afraid that since you have not specified those in the group that you are refering to, that others could have the potential IMO to think that I am one of those and that I could become a target of anti-Semitic violence since there are numerous outstanding requests by me to you and numerous outstanding notifications, and statements posted that could lead a Jew to feel put down that remain without a notation from the administration in the thread where they appear that the statement could lead a Jew to feel put down.
Lou Pilder
Posted by alexandra_k on August 11, 2009, at 9:53:53
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
> A decent community will be civil.Civil according to you and the rules you have for this site, or civil according to e.g., normative standards accepted by almost all???
Posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:29:37
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
>One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
Vulnerable people might post in a risky way so as to promote either kindliness or rejection from others.
I've done that, anyway.
Posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:32:37
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:29:37
>Vulnerable people might post in a risky way so as to promote either kindliness or rejection from others.
We're back to 'I have always depended on the kindness of strangers'.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 11, 2009, at 21:40:49
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:32:37
> >Vulnerable people might post in a risky way so as to promote either kindliness or rejection from others.
They might. Or they might post in a 'risky' way (according to Bob) because they don't accept that Bob has some grip on objective facts about what constitutes civility or incivility. Or 'decency' for that matter...
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2009, at 6:51:13
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I can't undo the past...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by writing that to me.
To post in the thread where the statemnts in question can be seen that they are uncivil is the method that you use to quench the potential fire that could arise as per your philosophy that you do not want to wait to quench a fire on the grounds that even a small fire could escalate into an inferno. Since the statements in question are of the nature that you agree that they are uncivil, then without the quenching notation from you to that effect, there is the potential for the fire to spread.
As to if you did do that in the threads where the statements in question are, as to if that would {undo the past}, without your defining what you want to mean by that I can only speculate as to what your thinking could be.
The only thing that I can think of that could be related to your statement {undo the past}is that I saw a Superman movie many years ago and he turned back time and corrected the past in regards to an event with Lois Lane. The Superman fantasy was a literal undoing of the past.
If you are using the phrase as a figure of speech, I would need to know what you are wanting to mean by that in order to respond fully. But in my thinking, posting a qualifying statement as per your TOS here in the thread where the statements in question appear would be following your own TOS, for the time lapse between a statement from you there and the date that the statement was posted could show that you want to show that you presently want others to know that in your thinking the statements in question that you agree are uncivil are made known to readers as such. The aspect that you have posted here that you agree that the statemnts are uncivil, does not annul the fact that there is not a quenching of the potential fire in the thread where the staements can be seen that you agree that your philosophy is to not wait untill there is a forest fire to quech any potential flame.
The flame that I see is not a match, but a continuous flame that has the potential to spread hatred toward the Jews in other forums and other communities untill it is notated by you in the thread where it is posted. I see it as a billboard that is in the present, for the archives can be seen in the present even though the post was made previously to today. If we consider a hypothetical example of, let's say, a billboard with antisemitic statemnts on it made in 1939 somewhere, in your thinking, could a billboard with statemnts of the nature in question be either taken down or have a notation posted on it that the community does not accept what the statements purport or would you want it left to stand on the grounds that if it was notated, one could not undo the past?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2009, at 8:41:56
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
I am asking at this point that we have dialog here concerning what you are wanting to mean by that you do what in your thinking will be good for the community as a whole and that others are to try and trust you and that you want to be fair.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2009, at 10:37:48
In reply to Lou's reply concerning antisemitic statements » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2009, at 8:41:56
> In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
In that case, please notify us of them if you haven't already. I do consider anti-Semitic statements to be uncivil. Though reasonable people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not.
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 19:28:08
In reply to Re: Lou's reply, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2009, at 10:37:48
'Islamofascism' seems to be OK here.
I'm less sure about 'Christianist'.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2009, at 5:25:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2009, at 10:37:48
> > In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
>
> In that case, please notify us of them if you haven't already. I do consider anti-Semitic statements to be uncivil. Though reasonable people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not...]
Have we not already agreed here as to what you consider to constitute a statement that is anti-Semitic? Is not the agreement that if a statement could lead a Jew to feel put down or accused it is considered by you an anti-Semitic statement?
Here a couple of links to posts that bring some of this out. I would also like the posts in the threads and the offered links in them to be explored.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041218/msgs/439314.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/884526.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 3, 2009, at 10:57:41
In reply to Re: Lou's reply, posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 19:28:08
Sigusmund,
I read your post here but I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What is your definition of Islamofascism?
B. What is involved in Christianist?
C. How is any of the above related to , if at all, what Mr. Hsiung has posted here that you responded to?
D. Could, in your opinion, concerning what constitutes what Mr. Hsiung has posted about that he agrees what is an anti-Semitic statement here (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 20, 2011, at 19:56:46
In reply to Lou's reply-estab » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2009, at 5:25:00
> > > In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
> >
> > In that case, please notify us of them if you haven't already. I do consider anti-Semitic statements to be uncivil. Though reasonable people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not...]
> Have we not already agreed here as to what you consider to constitute a statement that is anti-Semitic? Is not the agreement that if a statement could lead a Jew to feel put down or accused it is considered by you an anti-Semitic statement?
> Here a couple of links to posts that bring some of this out. I would also like the posts in the threads and the offered links in them to be explored.
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041218/msgs/439314.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/884526.htmlMr. Hsiung,
In regards to your reminder provision, the enclosed.
Lou Pilder
This is the end of the thread.
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