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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
Other members have asked me if I was a researcher, part of a study. Upon further investigation, I found out the conversations on this board are part of a research project. I wish I had known that before I started posting. I'm not comfortable in knowing that things I have said could end up in journal publications. I feel there should be some type of informational banner, a warning of some type, on these boards. I know this is a public place in which others can do many things with the information one posts, but I feel violated. I also feel deceived in knowing some of the people I have spoken with may not have had 'real' concerns.
I am also uncomfortable with the option of not having any control over my posts; I have a problem with impulse control--not one day of my life goes by where I don't think 'why did I have to say that?'. I'm too open and revealing which of course is my personal issue, but I've never utilized a forum in which I was not able to delete, or at least edit, my own posts. I had once sent an email to administrators, asking if my post could be deleted, and was told I was not permitted to have that done. It's quite often that I read someone's response the day after I've posted something, and thought 'I can't believe I said that'. I wonder why I cannot delete some of my posts, when the option is a feature for other forums--a feature there for a reason.
I've also just found that information from this forum is pulled to many other websites. Again, I realize transparency and personal cookies or footprints are the nature of the internet, but had I known that before, I probably would have been a bit more cautious with things I had said. One of the reasons I liked this forum was that it was not easy to find.
This concern is intended to be helpful. Some of the members here have concerns about the amount of traffic on this forum. Just from personal experience, I have noticed that when forums are too partitioned/categorized, they tend to not be as active. Then when a potential new user discovers the forum, in seeing little traffic, it turns them away which leads to less and less traffic. It makes little sense to me why Medication, Neurotransmitters, Alternative, etc., should be seperate topics. People on the Meds board talk about neurotransmitters; people on the Alternative board talk about meds; they are not seperate issues, but are more interrelated. How can you talk about one and not the other? Why the division? I am sure some will disagree. Same goes for Social-Politics-Religion-Psychology-etc. In addition, the logistics of the board are not very user-friendly and while categorized, confusing and distracting at the same time. I think it would be a positive overhaul to have this forum redesigned from a format of the 90s t a more modern format. The website itself is not encouraging or welcoming to potential users, it seems.
On a more positive note, I think the administrators do a very good job at moderating this board. I've used others where moderators regularly jumped on innocent posters who may have said "the wrong thing", creating a sense of walking on eggshells for the forum users. Here, it seems, just the right amount of moderation is practiced, and the moderation I've seen is very rational.
I hope I don't sound too critical here, but for the first 3 issues I brought up, I do feel violated and somewhat deceived. I realize my own personal shortcomings may influence those feelings, but these are not issues I have come across on other forums I've used; my discoveries about this forum came as a total surprise to me. Yes, I am now having regrets about using this forum in the nature that I have.
Thanks and regards,
Garnet*********
"I want to let you know that Psycho-Babble will be part of a new research project soon.
Participants in this research may be joining our community here. There may be as many as 230 of them, and they may or may not mention that they're in the study. I can't get into the nature of the study now, but I'll be happy to answer questions afterwards. I do want to reassure you that current posters aren't the subjects of this research and that the research participants will be here for support and education, not to study the rest of you.
I hope you'll be as excited by this opportunity to contribute to medical research as I am. Please accept my thanks for all you do to make Babble the supportive and educational resource it's become.
Bob"
Posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 2:48:14
In reply to To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
I was thinking about your website some more and wanted to add...it might be helpful for administrators to start a thread asking members how they feel the forum would be best organized (but include limit of say, 6 topics). Of course, a consensus could probably never be reached, but it may be beneficial to have user imput.
For example, just off the top of my head I would suggest, roughly:
1. Medical - includes medications, alternative, neurotransmitters, etc.
2. Mental Health - would include addictions, psychology, self-esteem, support, relationships, etc.
3. Anything Goes - includes religion, politics, students, social, etc.
4. Resources - library of information about meds, MAO diet restriction, how tos, help, etc.; put your links here
5. About Us - administration, faculty, etc.I do have some formal education with information technology management, so I am not personally critizing those who designed the site, but rather am looking at this from a consultative/helpful perspective. It's not so much the aesthetics and graphics, although much can be done with that, but that your site's design should have the organization's goals in mind. If you want to increase your user traffic, there are some things you can do. First and foremost, in most cases, websites should not have more than 6 'categories'; otherwise, it turns off (although unconsciously) the visitor or potential user. In addition, the layout of the homepage will instantly attract or repel potential members. There are lot more things you can do, of course; these are just a couple of examples.
You might find the following resources to be useful to find site organizational design ideas:
http://botw.org/top/Health/Mental_Health/
http://www.strategichealthcare.com/awards/winners.php
http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sites?cc=US&ts_mode=country
http://www.webaward.org/winners_detail.asp?yr
and
http://worldsworst100.blogspot.com/
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/biggest-mistakes-in-web-design-1995-2015.html
http://www.blogstorm.co.uk/top-10-worst-websites/261/
Good luck.
It would be fun--and a nice little challenge--to redesign your website.
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2009, at 7:39:58
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 2:48:14
Hi Garnet.
There are some interesting ideas there, and I'll make sure Dr. Bob is aware of your post. The deputies help him out, but he's the only one who handles the executive decisions.
Currently Dr. Bob is planning to reduce the number of boards. It's been on his to do list for a while. I can't recall offhand which ones he's planning to close.
I think there was also some discussion at some point of avatars, signatures, and profiles. Or at least links to profiles. I'm not sure where that stands.
Dr. Bob explained the study in one of his posts. It's not that sort of research study, although in the past Dr. Bob has written articles about Babble and may again I suppose. I don't have the link offhand, and I need to get to work, but maybe someone has it handy. I should bookmark it, I think. Since Babble is googleable, privacy is of necessity limited. But since I found Babble through googling, it's a compromise I suppose.
Thank you for the kind words about moderation. It certainly is nice to hear, and we do try our best to strike a moderate note in moderating. :)
Posted by Glydin 3.9 on February 12, 2009, at 9:54:17
In reply to To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
> Other members have asked me if I was a researcher, part of a study. Upon further investigation, I found out the conversations on this board are part of a research project.
~~~ When I arrived here about 7 years ago, the boards were part of research and that point was made very clear. At some point that changed and then changed again. Regardless of whether Dr. Bob lets the participants know of what he's up to, all the boards have in their explanation beginnings:"What you say may conceivably be used against you."
"Submitting a message gives me permission to use it as I wish."Those are pretty powerful statements of policy, IMO. It took me a while to realize how powerful those statements could be. (Sigh)
Posted by fayeroe on February 12, 2009, at 10:46:28
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address » Garnet71, posted by Glydin 3.9 on February 12, 2009, at 9:54:17
> > Other members have asked me if I was a researcher, part of a study. Upon further investigation, I found out the conversations on this board are part of a research project.
>
>
> ~~~ When I arrived here about 7 years ago, the boards were part of research and that point was made very clear. At some point that changed and then changed again. Regardless of whether Dr. Bob lets the participants know of what he's up to, all the boards have in their explanation beginnings:
>
> "What you say may conceivably be used against you."
> "Submitting a message gives me permission to use it as I wish."
>
> Those are pretty powerful statements of policy, IMO. It took me a while to realize how powerful those statements could be. (Sigh)Wow! It has been that long! (those memories...:-) )
Could I just second what you said about rules changing?
I hope that no one believes that what they say here is "sacred". You can "post" but you cannot "hide".....
Posted by Sigismund on February 12, 2009, at 17:51:12
In reply to To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
>Same goes for Social-Politics-Religion-Psychology-etc
Of course.
Posted by fayeroe on February 12, 2009, at 19:31:29
In reply to To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
*****Same goes for Social-Politics-Religion-Psychology-etc.*****
As far as the individual boards go, I guess that the majority of posters here are happy with them. At least, til now, I haven't heard anyone talking about doing a "fire sale".......
Sorry, I disagree with you.
Pat
Posted by garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 22:49:20
In reply to To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
Wow...such deep thought in some of the replies here.
Garnet, the once-long-time-ago-flight-attendant says - Buh Biyeee!!!
Posted by garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 22:50:51
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 22:49:20
Was I "uncivil" - did I 'click' without thinking things through? Oops, sorry, can't delete my post...too late.
Posted by Glydin 3.9 on February 13, 2009, at 5:43:10
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 22:49:20
> Wow...such deep thought in some of the replies here.
>
> Garnet, the once-long-time-ago-flight-attendant says - Buh Biyeee!!!~~~ Not being part of the Adm., I apologize for giving input or if something I posted was offensive to you.
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 13, 2009, at 13:39:29
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 22:49:20
> Wow...such deep thought in some of the replies here.
>Was I "uncivil" - did I 'click' without thinking things through? Oops, sorry, can't delete my post...too late.Please don't be sarcastic or post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
Well, sometimes the written word sounds a bit different when we read it back, after posting, than what we intended when we wrote it "in our head." So, even though Dr. Bob has elected not to allow editing or deletion of posts by posters here, posters can and do sincerely apologize if they realize their words may be uncivil after the fact. You can clarify your supportive or positive intentions after 'thinking things through."
In fact, administration always prefers to see these things worked out by community members without our intervention.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin, and should of course, be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
--10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by garnet71 on February 15, 2009, at 18:03:14
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address » garnet71, posted by Glydin 3.9 on February 13, 2009, at 5:43:10
> ~~~ Not being part of the Adm., I apologize for giving input or if something I posted was offensive to you.
>Glydin, sorry, it was me, not you. I just need to quit wearing my soul on my sleeve is all. I really said too much about me here on this forum, and shouldn't be upset when I get superficial or callous responses (in general), in addition to the heartful ones, because it's my issue and no one else's. I OWN that responsibility...
The problem is more with words than actions, but can be both. I've had more than just a few people look at me and can tell things just by my eyes. I guess I can't really hide my soul in its entirety, but there are things I can do.
The Ritalin helps. I've noticed a difference in the level of outspokeness/impulsiveness...just today, the couple in front of me in line at the grocery store seemed mean and were so rude to me when I simply asked them about the self-checkout thingy, I had strong urges to say "I hope you don't have kids!!, but kept my mouth shut instead..lol.
Ok, I've said enough already. Thanks and sorry :(
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 15, 2009, at 18:34:35
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by garnet71 on February 15, 2009, at 18:03:14
>when I get superficial or callous responses
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. While it is great to see you respond positively and have a dialog with glydin, etc., it is *not* okay to describe posts here in derogatory terms such as those you used - even when you state those responses are your "issue."
If you haven't, you might want to read over the civility guidelines in the FAQ prior to posting - they can be hard to get the hang of at first. Or, you could ask someone experienced here to be a civility buddy and look at your post before you submit it. I strongly suggest these things as I would very much like you not be blocked from posting. Since I have recently asked you to be civil on this same thread, another uncivil post is likely to result in a block.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin, and should of course, be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
--10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Garnet71 on February 15, 2009, at 19:03:57
In reply to Please be civil/follow site guidelines » garnet71, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 15, 2009, at 18:34:35
10derHeart,
I don't agree with you on this one, but that's ok - much is subjective according to the individual who is reading or writing, and sometimes political views, and you guys have a pretty good head on your shoulders on most issues. I never did hit the "report this post" button at the times others' posts have been hurtful to me, but instead tried to discuss some of it here. I see that does not work for some.
I don't have to write/post here if I do not want to.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2009, at 15:43:53
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 2:48:14
> I found out the conversations on this board are part of a research project. I wish I had known that before I started posting. I'm not comfortable in knowing that things I have said could end up in journal publications. ... I know this is a public place in which others can do many things with the information one posts, but I feel violated. I also feel deceived in knowing some of the people I have spoken with may not have had 'real' concerns.
I'm sorry you didn't feel informed. Case studies are, however, addressed in the consent that's part of the usual Babble registration process:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/consent.html
Also, just because someone's participating in research doesn't mean they don't also have real concerns:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20081003/msgs/862001.html
> I wonder why I cannot delete some of my posts, when the option is a feature for other forums--a feature there for a reason.
It's on my to-do list.
> I've also just found that information from this forum is pulled to many other websites.
It's not hard to do, since the information here is public. But I'm curious what other sites you're referring to.
> Some of the members here have concerns about the amount of traffic on this forum. Just from personal experience, I have noticed that when forums are too partitioned/categorized, they tend to not be as active. ... It makes little sense to me why Medication, Neurotransmitters, Alternative, etc., should be seperate topics. ... Why the division? ... Same goes for Social-Politics-Religion-Psychology-etc. ... I think it would be a positive overhaul to have this forum redesigned from a format of the 90s t a more modern format.
As Dinah mentioned, closing some boards is also on my to-do list. Some divisions will probably remain, though. I agree, a redesign might be a good idea.
> On a more positive note, I think the administrators do a very good job at moderating this board. I've used others where moderators regularly jumped on innocent posters who may have said "the wrong thing", creating a sense of walking on eggshells for the forum users. Here, it seems, just the right amount of moderation is practiced, and the moderation I've seen is very rational.
I think the deputies do more than a moderately good job, too. :-)
> it might be helpful for administrators to start a thread asking members how they feel the forum would be best organized (but include limit of say, 6 topics). Of course, a consensus could probably never be reached, but it may be beneficial to have user imput.
>
> For example, just off the top of my head I would suggest, roughly:
>
> 1. Medical - includes medications, alternative, neurotransmitters, etc.
> 2. Mental Health - would include addictions, psychology, self-esteem, support, relationships, etc.
> 3. Anything Goes - includes religion, politics, students, social, etc.
> 4. Resources - library of information about meds, MAO diet restriction, how tos, help, etc.; put your links here
> 5. About Us - administration, faculty, etc.Thanks for the suggestions!
> If you want to increase your user traffic, there are some things you can do. First and foremost, in most cases, websites should not have more than 6 'categories'; otherwise, it turns off (although unconsciously) the visitor or potential user. In addition, the layout of the homepage will instantly attract or repel potential members. There are lot more things you can do, of course; these are just a couple of examples.
>
> You might find the following resources to be useful to find site organizational design ideas ...
>
> It would be fun--and a nice little challenge--to redesign your website.Thanks for the examples and resources. What would you consider the most important organizational design ideas?
Bob
Posted by garnet71 on February 16, 2009, at 19:09:40
In reply to Re: Concerns, posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2009, at 15:43:53
> Also, just because someone's participating in research doesn't mean they don't also have real concerns:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20081003/msgs/862001.htmlThanks for posting the link to that comment; I did not know the parameters of your study, and that explains a lot! I am very curious about your study after thinking about possible reasons why you disclosed the research project to the forum members. At first I thought you might be studying disclosure decision models, but after reading that last comment, I am guessing again...any hints??
>But I'm curious what other sites you're referring to.
>http://www.newstin.co.uk/related.a?edition=uk&group_id=en-010-009069082&similarFilter=ALL
http://glue.yahoo.com/page/parnate
(our posts are pulled to Yahoo glue)http://www.luo-tech.com/babble/psycho/babble.html
One of these sites below has the same same IP address as this site but just a different "name":
group-study.org/babble/admin/babble.html
www.large-group.org/babble/admin/
Active Connections
Proto Foreign Address State
TCP 208.51.35.17:80 CLOSE_WAIT
TCP 204.202.252.230:80 TIME_WAIT
TCP 204.202.252.230:80 TIME_WAIT
TCP 64.233.161.156:80 CLOSE_WAIT
TCP 64.233.161.147:80 CLOSE_WAIT
> Thanks for the examples and resources. What would you consider the most important organizational design ideas?
>In addition to what I had already mentioned, site design largely depends on the goals of the organization. Your whole site needs redesigned-really. I would guess you have a webmaster or someone who maintains logistics for this site, but your best bet would be to hire an IT intern from Univ. of Chicago, even just a web designer, to reorganize and redesign it in its entirety. It would probably take him or her less than a week. I do realize that some things are better left alone...that's for you to decide :)
Thanks for addressing all my concerns.
- Garnet
Posted by seldomseen on February 16, 2009, at 20:26:34
In reply to Re: Concerns » Dr. Bob, posted by garnet71 on February 16, 2009, at 19:09:40
I do not think this site needs too much re-designing.
There may be too many boards, but overall, I really like the content driven aspect of these boards.
I like that an entire thread can be viewed and that multiple threads can be scanned simultaneously without having to pick one from a list. Sometimes there is a lot of wisdom in those threads, and I like to go back to them without having to dig like on other boards.
I like that in responses to specific posts, we list the poster's name rather than nesting the threads.
It's just the words and the people that I care about really and, to me, the way this site is laid out makes it very easy to get to them.
I would also argue that the psych board especially needs to be left as is and not consolidated with any other board. For me, it's like a little haven of simple in a flash-based world.
In fact, I think that's how I would describe babble in general.
Even the chat application hasn't been wigging out like it used to, although sometimes the screen will just clear for no reason.
Maybe I'm just provincial, but to me, if it aint too broke, don't go trying to fix it. Maybe a tinker here and there though...
Seldom
Posted by seldomseen on February 16, 2009, at 20:27:38
In reply to Re: Concerns » garnet71, posted by seldomseen on February 16, 2009, at 20:26:34
Posted by raisinb on February 19, 2009, at 21:08:36
In reply to To Administrators: Concerns; please address, posted by Garnet71 on February 12, 2009, at 1:15:11
I don't have a strong stance on the recent series of issues.
But I too would very much appreciate the opportunity to edit or delete posts. It's tough knowing some of the things I've said are out there in the archives forever.
Posted by Neal on February 23, 2009, at 0:49:16
In reply to Re: To Administrators: Concerns; please address » Garnet71, posted by raisinb on February 19, 2009, at 21:08:36
Dr. Bob,
i want to vote for the design "as is". Especially I hope you never go to a white background, as reading on white becomes a race against eyestrain and headache.
The design is fine. Its all about the words anyway, so design is always secondary. Some kind of logo of some kind might be nice. I design stuff like that if you're ever in the market for a freebie.
-neal
This is the end of the thread.
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