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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:37:44
In reply to Re: Let me try again.. » Dinah, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on March 17, 2008, at 12:42:54
Well, I think this place is worth an awful lot.
But perhaps you overestimate my investment of time. I have a husband, child, dogs, and a sometimes stressful job. A lot of times I work at home, so I'm around and available. Not just for Babble of course, but for my husband, child, and dogs. And myself. :)
But that doesn't mean I'm necessarily *here* at Babble. It's more that I can come to Babble if need be.
Thanks for being concerned, Jay.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:58:50
In reply to Re: Wait. Never mind. » Dinah, posted by KAL44 on March 17, 2008, at 0:05:32
There are no new civility rules, or any sort of new rules really. Not for posters.
Dr. Bob just wanted to encourage non-deputy posters to shoulder more of the responsibility for maintaining the civility of the site by asking deputies to leave things alone unless someone reports something through the notification function.
It hasn't actually gone into effect, although since deputies are aware of his preferences, there might be a tendency in that direction.
If anything, it might lead to laxer enforcement of the existing civility guidelines, or perhaps more sporadic and unequal enforcement, at least in my nevertobehumble opinion.
Posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 17, 2008, at 19:48:18
In reply to Re: Wait. Never mind. » KAL44, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:58:50
So it that all that Dr. Bob changed (or suggested)???? Is that what all this fuss has been about??? I don't understand what the big deal is. What upset all the posters so badly....simply that Bob suggested a very MINOR change of policy....and one that hasn't even been enforced yet?
How can one such little minor thing disturb so many people?
People have been posting that they're losing sleep, that they spend entire hours with their therapists talking about how this site is falling apart, etc.....and all for this! It seems like a non-issue.
I mean, if Bob wanted to change the color of the font on one of the pages, that would've been a bigger deal! Would that, then , have driven members to want to jump off bridges? Come on ya'll, aren't we supposed to be adults here???
Posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 20:10:00
In reply to Let me try again, posted by Dinah on March 16, 2008, at 10:17:21
> In the future, Dr. Bob would like the posters themselves, the community of Babble, to provide the immediate level of framework, with deputies providing an intermediate framework, and Dr. Bob providing an overarching support...
>I have a couple reactions to this, although I think people are pretty sick of what I have to say by now.
I like the idea. It's radical - self policing. It's far less rigid than every detected infraction receiving a punishment based on some crazy formula. If nobody's offended (or nobody cares) - no harm, no foul. If there's uneven justice - then it's like American jurisprudence where any number of factors mitigate the sanction including character witnesses, juries identifying with the accused, judges biases, plea barganing, hell I'm no lawyer but 10 people commiting the same crime can get ten different legal reactions.
The peoplem is it may not work for whatever reason. Bob has recinded rules, I think, or let them lapse, or dropped boards. Evolution can go forward and back.
Again, my problem is that a change of this magnitude should at the very least involve public discourse. After the cat got out of the bag and everyone freaked, if he was at all invested in these changes, as "the overarching support" that you claim Bob is, why the hell didn't he come explain and support the concept? Or is this his way of sabbotaging the plan before its even instituted?
I'm sorry to keep ranting about Bob, but the over arching support that was the foundation of this nice building looks pretty feeble to me right now.
Posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 17, 2008, at 20:25:57
In reply to try again » Dinah, posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 20:10:00
This board was created by Dr. Bob. He designed the concept. He envisioned how it should work. It's his board. He should do what he pleases with it.
We are all free entities. We can take it or leave it. If we don't like certain policy changes, we can chose not to post. We can get support elsewhere.
Why can't everyone understand that it's his board, and he can do what he likes with it. He doesn't have to answer to anyone of us. If you don't like it, you can chose to leave. I don't get why everyone is demanding a voice in this.
If you had a favorite hotel...and the owner decided to paint the rooms pink, and you hated pink, it's not up to you to tell the owner to repaint them. You can chose not to stay at the hotel anymore. Or you can realize that the color of the walls really doesn't matter that much, and that there are more important things (like reasonable prices, hospitality, safety, a warm bed) and just get over the pink walls.
Same with this board. It's not our decision how it should be run. But if we dont' like it, we can leave. Otherwise, we should just mind our owm business.
Posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 20:47:48
In reply to Re: try again, posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 17, 2008, at 20:25:57
What
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 21:33:03
In reply to try again » Dinah, posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 20:10:00
Well, for what it's worth, I don't think self policing is all that unusual on the internet. There are lots of places that seem to have that.
I like Babble better.
I'm sure it's a matter of taste, and certainly I think that valid points could be made in either direction.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 21:39:14
In reply to try again » Dinah, posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 20:10:00
And I have no idea why Dr. Bob isn't available to post, or whether he planned to present the idea, or why he isn't supporting it. Or how long it will be before he does feel available to post.
Moreover, while he gave me permission to explain what was going on, I'm not entirely sure he meant me to say what I said.
Posted by KAL44 on March 17, 2008, at 21:52:01
In reply to Re: Wait. Never mind. » KAL44, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:58:50
Okay now I understand. You have explained it all very well. Thanks. I am not going to worry any more about it then. Thanks.
Posted by KAL44 on March 17, 2008, at 21:53:46
In reply to Re: Wait. Never mind., posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 17, 2008, at 19:48:18
Well I thought that given what a number of people posted that the "change" was something other than what it is, and so now I know what it it, and it isn't a big deal to me now.
Posted by twinleaf on March 17, 2008, at 23:25:09
In reply to Re: Wait. Never mind. » KAL44, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:58:50
What was it about encouraging posters to make the initial notifications about civility infractions that caused you to seriously consider resigning as a Deputy?
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on March 17, 2008, at 23:30:32
In reply to Re: Let me try again.. » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 17:37:44
> Well, I think this place is worth an awful lot.
>
> But perhaps you overestimate my investment of time. I have a husband, child, dogs, and a sometimes stressful job. A lot of times I work at home, so I'm around and available. Not just for Babble of course, but for my husband, child, and dogs. And myself. :)
>
> But that doesn't mean I'm necessarily *here* at Babble. It's more that I can come to Babble if need be.
>
> Thanks for being concerned, Jay.Well, let me just say I offer you my support Dinah. I know it is not much, but being here for awhile, I have seen what you and others have gone through. We all seem to have our "phases",(not saying you are going through a 'phase') as I remember well going through my *rebel* phase. I still believe some of what I said, minus all of the anger I had at the time.
Things will work themselves out, one way or another. These 'issues', I think, will *always* be with the board. I hope, honestly of course, for the best.
Sincerely,
Jay :-)
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 23:44:19
In reply to the proposed new notification guidelines » Dinah, posted by twinleaf on March 17, 2008, at 23:25:09
It was being told that any notifications made by deputies or ex-deputies would not be acted upon that made me feel like I needed to leave, Twinleaf.
Given my history with nonresponsive adults in authority who did not do what they should have in response to my "reports", I knew that I could not handle being placed in such a similar position. It would have been more pressure and more triggering than I could tolerate.
I made it clear all along that it was *my* issue, not anything Dr. Bob did.
I'm not really going to debate whether I *should* be able to handle those circumstances. I know myself well enough to know that I can't.
I stand by that. And I'm not going to apologize for making the decision that it wasn't healthy for me to stay under those conditions.
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 23:52:58
In reply to Re: Let me try again.. » Dinah, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on March 17, 2008, at 23:30:32
Posted by twinleaf on March 18, 2008, at 0:17:22
In reply to Re: the proposed new notification guidelines » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2008, at 23:44:19
Oh, O.K. Thanks for explaining that. It makes perfect sense if the new plan included dealing only with notifications from board members and not with ones from deputies. The proposed change itself seemed so benign that I couldn't imagine what bothered you about it. I didn't know about the part that would have excluded deputies from notifying- I think that would be very difficult and frustrating for anyone acting as a deputy.
If Bob wants to make this change, it would seem to be all right as long as both board members and deputies can make notifications. I hope we eventually get back to at least some occasional communication with Bob. It's needed in order to make plans for the APA meeting, and for discussion of rule changes and improvements such as the current one.
I will continue to think that it would have been much better for Bob to have acknowledged the recent turmoil here. We have lost some wonderful posters, and many posters who are still here are no longer writing the fascinating, intimate posts which made Babble so special and helpful. There was also a shocking increase in angry, hostile posting all through the boards, with ones directed towards a long-time poster on Medication being perhaps the most extreme and disturbing. At times like this, just a brief word, conveying understanding and support, would have gone a long way to minimize the damage. It would help even now.
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 6:42:32
In reply to Re: » moonlightsonata2, posted by Toph on March 17, 2008, at 20:47:48
> What
What, what?
- Scott
Posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 7:04:56
In reply to Re: » Toph, posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 6:42:32
What time is it?
Posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 7:09:37
In reply to Re: Wait. Never mind. » Dinah, posted by KAL44 on March 17, 2008, at 21:52:01
> Okay now I understand. You have explained it all very well. Thanks. I am not going to worry any more about it then. Thanks.
I'm glad you are relieved, KAL. For me, it was never about the changes. I'm willing to give anything a try to keep people here. It's Bob's indifference after we know he was notified about all the angst that got me into Katrina mode.
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 7:43:21
In reply to Re: » SLS, posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 7:04:56
> > > > "This board was created by Dr. Bob. He designed the concept. He envisioned how it should work. It's his board. He should do what he pleases with it.
We are all free entities. We can take it or leave it. If we don't like certain policy changes, we can chose not to post. We can get support elsewhere.
Why can't everyone understand that it's his board, and he can do what he likes with it. He doesn't have to answer to anyone of us. If you don't like it, you can chose to leave. I don't get why everyone is demanding a voice in this.
If you had a favorite hotel...and the owner decided to paint the rooms pink, and you hated pink, it's not up to you to tell the owner to repaint them. You can chose not to stay at the hotel anymore. Or you can realize that the color of the walls really doesn't matter that much, and that there are more important things (like reasonable prices, hospitality, safety, a warm bed) and just get over the pink walls.
Same with this board. It's not our decision how it should be run. But if we dont' like it, we can leave. Otherwise, we should just mind our owm business."
> > > what
> > What, what?
> What time is it?
Time to remain civil to moonlightsonata2.
What was your question for this person? I will assume to call it a question, despite the lack of punctuation.
So, what, what?
- Scott
Posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 8:21:47
In reply to Re: Civility » Toph, posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 7:43:21
What, what's with the questions Scott?
I'm pissed at Bob not you. But you are beginning to annoy me. I believe I have remained civil. I wouldn't mind hearing from Bob that I have been otherwise, though.
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 8:28:38
In reply to Re: Civility » SLS, posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 8:21:47
> What, what's with the questions Scott?
>
> I'm pissed at Bob not you. But you are beginning to annoy me. I believe I have remained civil. I wouldn't mind hearing from Bob that I have been otherwise, though.Whether I annoy you or not does not concern me. It is obvious that we have differing opinions. I guess I like to be as clever as you are in how you attempt to get your points across to other people.
- Scott
Posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 8:37:17
In reply to Re: Civility » Toph, posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 8:28:38
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 9:53:59
In reply to Fair enough (nm) » SLS, posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 8:37:17
I still maintain in high regard your passions and intellect.
- Scott
Posted by Toph on March 18, 2008, at 10:51:09
In reply to Re: I agree. » Toph, posted by SLS on March 18, 2008, at 9:53:59
Wow Scott, I thought you were mad at me. Well, I know you care about this place also. And, for whatever reason, people who were here from the get go deserve special consideration, in my view. Must be sad to see so many interesting people come and go.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 0:10:11
In reply to Re: try again, posted by moonlightsonata2 on March 17, 2008, at 20:25:57
> In the future, Dr. Bob would like the posters themselves, the community of Babble, to provide the immediate level of framework, with deputies providing an intermediate framework, and Dr. Bob providing an overarching support.
That's the idea, thanks for explaining it so well. And for understanding it in the first place!
> I will never think the board is as well supported in any other way as it was when Dr. Bob was involved intimately.
>
> DinahI appreciate that, but in the long run, I think the more supports, the better. Not only is the framework more resilient, but it allows more people to have the experience of contributing.
--
> If you had a favorite hotel...and the owner decided to paint the rooms pink, and you hated pink, it's not up to you to tell the owner to repaint them. You can chose not to stay at the hotel anymore. Or you can realize that the color of the walls really doesn't matter that much, and that there are more important things (like reasonable prices, hospitality, safety, a warm bed) and just get over the pink walls.
>
> moonlightsonata2It's complicated. Some people do choose not to stay here anymore. But others may feel this is their home, or a shelter, and not my hotel; have concerns about issues like safety; or care more about the other guests than the place itself.
The color of these walls has come up, too. :-)
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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