![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on March 11, 2008, at 20:57:10
Although I too am still jumping for joy over Dinah's decision to rejoin the Babble community and resume her role as deputy, I feel I must publicly declare my utter disappointment in our Administrator At Large, who, for reasons unknown to us, abandoned us in our time of need.
Yes, I do find this a personally triggering event, and it certainly stirred up a bunch of ghosties from my own closet.
For a place that supposedly is to be for mutual support, I find our founder and very own father figure to be sadly lacking in the compassion department - what do you know; another trigger! (No wonder I could never cut the mustard as a deputy.) I don't think that I can adequately express the depth of the distress that I experienced this past week, waiting for explanations that never appeared; checking and refreshing the screens, hoping for some crumb of information as to just what was going on. I don't really know how this rift within me can possibly be repaired.
I just had to get that all off my chest.
Thanks
Posted by rskontos on March 11, 2008, at 21:35:19
In reply to Administrative Abandonment, posted by ClearSkies on March 11, 2008, at 20:57:10
Clear Skies,
I agree and I get all the more mad that he left Dinah holding the bag to explain to us. Talk about more abandonment issues. More too busy(iness) issues than to answers all our critical questions?? I find it so so so hostile even. I was going to offensive but hostile fits better. It is triggering too. I have only posted here except for one post yesterday on meds boards. I don't think it can be repaired for me or many others either as we take trust issues as BIG deals. And apparently he doesnt.
I just keep picturing him watching all this as another experiment. And that hurts and makes me sad. And then mad. And I want to hide.
rsk
thanks for listening too.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 22:27:51
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment » ClearSkies, posted by rskontos on March 11, 2008, at 21:35:19
Is it scarier to think that he's experimenting and watching? Or that he's not watching at all, and is tending to other areas of his life?
This is nothing new. Dr. Bob has periods of time, and yes periods longer than this, where he isn't available. Fortunately most of the time he is more available. It's not less safe here now than it was a month ago.
If nothing happens, nobody even notices, or at least not as much. If things flare up, the deputies try to hold down the fort and send up an SOS to Dr. Bob.
I wish Dr. Bob were around as much as he used to be, and was as involved as he used to be. But he's not. And I don't see that changing anytime soon, although goodness knows I've been wrong before and could be wrong again. I think it's a big loss to Babble.
Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2008, at 22:32:39
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 22:27:51
Dinah it is and I've noticed some links being posted from the administrator of another board with reports of new meds and such same should be here an admin who takes an interest in the news of meds and mental health issues and notifies his followers. So we are a footprint in the sand. Love Phillipa
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 7:59:28
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 22:27:51
wrong thread dinah but i did want to tell u that i don't think anyone was angry with you. I certainly wasn't.
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 8:03:44
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment » Dinah, posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 7:59:28
Thank you, Star.
(I am. I care abut Babblers. I would never want this to happen.)
Posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 8:09:41
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment » star008, posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 8:03:44
Dinah, I too am not mad at you. I got more mad at him leaving you to be the one to tell us. That just seems wrong. I know you care enough to want to tell us, but honestly it seems like it is his place to do his own accounting to us. But thanks for wanting to in the first place. We all know how good your heart is:)
rsk
Posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 10:12:50
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 22:27:51
Dinah, it makes me furious that he could be using the posts here that reflect so much pain and confusion right now. Yes, Yes, Yes, I realize that he has that short little line about being able to use all of the posters if he wants to experiment or write papers about this abandonment.
It is scary for me to read the posts that clearly show that some people really NEED him to clean up his own messes.
How could people not be scared, hurt and then angry with him?
He wouldn't have any research here if there weren't feelings being voiced here in the postings.
I have heard these excuses for Bob as long as I can remember. He is being enabled and he always has been and I don't see any chance of it changing in the future. I remember having issues with you years ago when I would ask him a question and you would answer for him. I hate to see you have to step in, over and over to do this. I wish you wouldn't.
Bob has an uncanny ability to get others to do his dirty work.....remember the Steely Dan song, "I Don't Want To Do Your Dirty Work, Oh No"?
Has any deputy or deputy adm ever refused to help him out? It isn't like anyone's knuckles are going to be rapped figuratively. But he can always manipulate people, in my opinion, to get them to speak for him.
Posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 10:24:05
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 10:12:50
Well, I guess the one good thing from all of this is , is it has cured me from the need of needing Babble and other internet websites. I peruse them but don't feel I can muster up the energy to post anymore. My voice doesn't seem to want to be voiced anymore. I am not sure anyone wants or needs to hear it. My voices have turned internal and are vamping up the heat anyway. I believe my internal fight is underway and I will not let Bob be a party to it to use in his research. And believe me Bob the party is only getting started. This are a lot more demons in my head itching to get out but you will not get them to use in your lab rat experiment. And now you mad them downright mad, actually pissed but I will not let them out to vent. We will just take our party elsewhere, in our head, and hopefully therapy. Although, you have made that hard too now. All this has made us want to just go get in bed, pull up the covers and hide from one and all. But then I guess that is ammo for your d*mn papers too huh. Adios Mr. Bob. I hope you are happy because I sure the heck am not.
rsk
PS and if you are using the pain and suffering posts here as fayeroe suggests then you are more sick and twisted then I thought and that makes me feel even more yuck and I now must tell my p-doc about all of this because I really want to go inside and hide where it is all safe and let someone else drive the wheel for a while.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 10:57:58
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment, posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 10:24:05
> Well, I guess the one good thing from all of this is , is it has cured me from the need of needing Babble and other internet websites. I peruse them but don't feel I can muster up the energy to post anymore. My voice doesn't seem to want to be voiced anymore. I am not sure anyone wants or needs to hear it. My voices have turned internal and are vamping up the heat anyway. I believe my internal fight is underway and I will not let Bob be a party to it to use in his research. And believe me Bob the party is only getting started. This are a lot more demons in my head itching to get out but you will not get them to use in your lab rat experiment. And now you mad them downright mad, actually pissed but I will not let them out to vent. We will just take our party elsewhere, in our head, and hopefully therapy. Although, you have made that hard too now. All this has made us want to just go get in bed, pull up the covers and hide from one and all. But then I guess that is ammo for your d*mn papers too huh. Adios Mr. Bob. I hope you are happy because I sure the heck am not.
>
> rsk
>
> PS and if you are using the pain and suffering posts here as fayeroe suggests then you are more sick and twisted then I thought and that makes me feel even more yuck and I now must tell my p-doc about all of this because I really want to go inside and hide where it is all safe and let someone else drive the wheel for a while.
>
>
rsk,
You wrote,[...my voice doesn't want to...I am not sure...have turned internal...fight is under way...will not let...more demons...mad(e) them downright mad...made that hard...hide from...feel..more yuk...inside and hide...].
From the grammatical structure of your post above, I would like for members here to attempt to help remedy this situation that you describe here. I could use links and past posts from here but there have been new rules made here about a year ago that I am unsure as to what links that I can post here or what posts from this forum that have been allowed to stand that I can post here which I think could be of help here in this situation. Perhaps others could post here, and when I could need to post a link, I could email it to someone that you could have them forward to you, if that could be possible, if you do not want to email to me.
Lou
Posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 12:42:15
In reply to Lou's reply to rsk's post-dknesvthemnd » rskontos, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 10:57:58
Lou I am not adverse to email from you or babblemail from you either. Or emailing you either I meant to say. I am just having a harder time gathering my thoughts exactly. I want to post a thread regarding this but I am scared too. Does this make sense. I would do it on the psych board if I did I guess that would be the appropriate forum. rsk
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:05:06
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to rsk's post-dknesvthemnd, posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 12:42:15
> Lou I am not adverse to email from you or babblemail from you either. Or emailing you either I meant to say. I am just having a harder time gathering my thoughts exactly. I want to post a thread regarding this but I am scared too. Does this make sense. I would do it on the psych board if I did I guess that would be the appropriate forum. rsk
rsh,
You wrote,[...harder time gathering my thoughts...want to post a thread..am scared...the appropriate forum...].
I think that your situation is one that I would like for the entire forum to address here. Since there could be that this involves the administration of this site as the results that to you that you have posted about here. I think that this could be an appropriate board.
You see, there is a body of thought in many books that go back 100 years and before that describes a lot of what is happening here and it involves the administration as to what they post here and what they do that I see is an integral part of what you have posted here so I think this board is appropriate. There are published criticisms of that type of thinking concerning the adminiistration of a community that I do not know if I could post a link to that here due to the new rules made about a year ago or so concerning posting links.
Lou
Posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 13:10:11
In reply to Lou's reply to rsk's post-rsltsvad » rskontos, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:05:06
Lou, my only reply is to cry. that is all i can do now. because my inners are very upsest i am sorry i have to go.
rsk
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:31:54
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to rsk's post-rsltsvad » Lou Pilder, posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 13:10:11
> Lou, my only reply is to cry. that is all i can do now. because my inners are very upsest i am sorry i have to go.
>
> rsk
>
rsk,
I do understand so if and when you return, I think that if all the members here that could offer support and education to you come forward, that there could be a remedy for your situation.
I would like for you to consider the following while you are away if you are going to return:
The tobacco companies deal with that about 2,000,000 people die each year that the scientific community attributes as being from the effects of using tobacco, mostly smoking that causes lung cancer and heart disease and other cancers and emphysema. The tobacco companies used to put out their attempt to show that there are positive benifits, according to them from their product that contains the drug,nicotine, in that the 2 million deaths could relieve some governments of money that they would have had to pay older people in social security like payments that they do not have to pay, and health care public costs that they would not have to pay to older people since they died an early age from the use of tobacco products. I do not know if they are still putting out that type of defense as a positive aspect of their product. I could tie this example in with other examples if you return and would like to continue.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:55:18
In reply to Lou's reply to rsk's post-absrdarg » rskontos, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:31:54
> > Lou, my only reply is to cry. that is all i can do now. because my inners are very upsest i am sorry i have to go.
> >
> > rsk
> >
> rsk,
> I do understand so if and when you return, I think that if all the members here that could offer support and education to you come forward, that there could be a remedy for your situation.
> I would like for you to consider the following while you are away if you are going to return:
> The tobacco companies deal with that about 2,000,000 people die each year that the scientific community attributes as being from the effects of using tobacco, mostly smoking that causes lung cancer and heart disease and other cancers and emphysema. The tobacco companies used to put out their attempt to show that there are positive benifits, according to them from their product that contains the drug,nicotine, in that the 2 million deaths could relieve some governments of money that they would have had to pay older people in social security like payments that they do not have to pay, and health care public costs that they would not have to pay to older people since they died an early age from the use of tobacco products. I do not know if they are still putting out that type of defense as a positive aspect of their product. I could tie this example in with other examples if you return and would like to continue.
> Lou
rek,
If and when you decide to return, I would also like for you to consider this following example:
A friend of mind told me this happened to him amny years ago. He was travleing to California and stopped in a town in Oklahoma where poker was legal. He said that there was a big pot and he was called and had a flush. The other player had a straight. As my friend was taking in the big pot the other player stopped his hand and said, " I have an Oklahoma straight because my straight has in it the 5 of clubs and the 8 of hearts and an Oklahoma straight beats a flush." And a gun was pulled out the other player took the money away from my friend and he had to leave by force.
These examples, with others later, I can tie in with what I see in your posts and I think that I have a remedy for this situation and hope that you return.
Lou
Posted by Jamal Spelling on March 12, 2008, at 14:14:40
In reply to Re: Administrative Abandonment, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 22:27:51
I don't think Dr Bob is secretly running Stanford Prison Experiment type research on Psycho-Babble. Those legal eagles amongst us may correct me, but I am under the impression that under HIPAA legislation, medical research requires informed consent from participants. A doctor that runs research without informed consent from the participants could face serious sanction.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 15:07:55
In reply to Lou's reply to rsk's post-absrdarg » rskontos, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:31:54
> > Lou, my only reply is to cry. that is all i can do now. because my inners are very upsest i am sorry i have to go.
> >
> > rsk
> >
> rsk,
> I do understand so if and when you return, I think that if all the members here that could offer support and education to you come forward, that there could be a remedy for your situation.
> I would like for you to consider the following while you are away if you are going to return:
> The tobacco companies deal with that about 2,000,000 people die each year that the scientific community attributes as being from the effects of using tobacco, mostly smoking that causes lung cancer and heart disease and other cancers and emphysema. The tobacco companies used to put out their attempt to show that there are positive benifits, according to them from their product that contains the drug,nicotine, in that the 2 million deaths could relieve some governments of money that they would have had to pay older people in social security like payments that they do not have to pay, and health care public costs that they would not have to pay to older people since they died an early age from the use of tobacco products. I do not know if they are still putting out that type of defense as a positive aspect of their product. I could tie this example in with other examples if you return and would like to continue.
> Lou
>
>
Friends,
Here is a link to a citation where the tobacco industry tells a government thata deaths from tobacco use will save them money. This was in 2001 and I do not know if the companies still use this type of claim that there are positive benifits of the use of tobacco products in relation that the early deaths save the country money. Also, a correction to the 2 million deaths could be more like 3 million today since I was thinking in 2001 terms.
Lou
http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2001/industry-tells-government.html
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 15:21:17
In reply to Research, informed consent and HIPAA, posted by Jamal Spelling on March 12, 2008, at 14:14:40
perhaps not "research" itself but he does use babble for his research papers and he has used it for at least one book.. google him and see.. there is his paper about suicide. in an online support group.. You can only see part of it and then you have to pay for it. He can use anythng you say as material.
Posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 15:29:12
In reply to Re: Research, informed consent and HIPAA » Jamal Spelling, posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 15:21:17
> perhaps not "research" itself but he does use babble for his research papers and he has used it for at least one book.. google him and see.. there is his paper about suicide. in an online support group.. You can only see part of it and then you have to pay for it. He can use anythng you say as material.
I believe that using posts in a book constitutes research. He locates and uses the posts that will be useful in a book or paper.
By using the poster's words his bank account increases, does it not?
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 22:06:25
In reply to Re: Research, informed consent and HIPAA » star008, posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 15:29:12
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2008, at 8:54:53
In reply to Lou's reply to rsk's post-Oklhma, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 13:55:18
> > > Lou, my only reply is to cry. that is all i can do now. because my inners are very upsest i am sorry i have to go.
> > >
> > > rsk
> > >
> > rsk,
> > I do understand so if and when you return, I think that if all the members here that could offer support and education to you come forward, that there could be a remedy for your situation.
> > I would like for you to consider the following while you are away if you are going to return:
> > The tobacco companies deal with that about 2,000,000 people die each year that the scientific community attributes as being from the effects of using tobacco, mostly smoking that causes lung cancer and heart disease and other cancers and emphysema. The tobacco companies used to put out their attempt to show that there are positive benifits, according to them from their product that contains the drug,nicotine, in that the 2 million deaths could relieve some governments of money that they would have had to pay older people in social security like payments that they do not have to pay, and health care public costs that they would not have to pay to older people since they died an early age from the use of tobacco products. I do not know if they are still putting out that type of defense as a positive aspect of their product. I could tie this example in with other examples if you return and would like to continue.
> > Lou
> rek,
> If and when you decide to return, I would also like for you to consider this following example:
> A friend of mind told me this happened to him amny years ago. He was travleing to California and stopped in a town in Oklahoma where poker was legal. He said that there was a big pot and he was called and had a flush. The other player had a straight. As my friend was taking in the big pot the other player stopped his hand and said, " I have an Oklahoma straight because my straight has in it the 5 of clubs and the 8 of hearts and an Oklahoma straight beats a flush." And a gun was pulled out the other player took the money away from my friend and he had to leave by force.
> These examples, with others later, I can tie in with what I see in your posts and I think that I have a remedy for this situation and hope that you return.
> Loursk,
Another example of a way of thinking that I could tie into all of this that would like for you to cojsider is the following:
A man was attempting to trade in his car with a dealer and the dealer said to the man, "Would you take $5000.00 for your trade-in? The man agreed to the trade-in and when he was in the office to pay the difference and to take delivery of his new car, the dealer's representative said to the man that they needed $1000.000 more to make the deal. The man was outraged and said that there was a deal made that would allow him $5000.00 for his trade. The dealer's rep then said to him,
" We asked you if you would take $5000.00 for your trade, not that we would give it to you."
This went to trial and as I can remember, it is called a {wouldyoutake} and the trial judge ruled that there was an expectation for the man to receive the $5000.00 for his trade and fined the dealer a substantial penalty for what the judge said was deliberate misrepresentation.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2008, at 9:36:11
In reply to Lou's reply to rsk's post-wuduteighk?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2008, at 8:54:53
> > > > Lou, my only reply is to cry. that is all i can do now. because my inners are very upsest i am sorry i have to go.
> > > >
> > > > rsk
> > > >
> > > rsk,
> > > I do understand so if and when you return, I think that if all the members here that could offer support and education to you come forward, that there could be a remedy for your situation.
> > > I would like for you to consider the following while you are away if you are going to return:
> > > The tobacco companies deal with that about 2,000,000 people die each year that the scientific community attributes as being from the effects of using tobacco, mostly smoking that causes lung cancer and heart disease and other cancers and emphysema. The tobacco companies used to put out their attempt to show that there are positive benifits, according to them from their product that contains the drug,nicotine, in that the 2 million deaths could relieve some governments of money that they would have had to pay older people in social security like payments that they do not have to pay, and health care public costs that they would not have to pay to older people since they died an early age from the use of tobacco products. I do not know if they are still putting out that type of defense as a positive aspect of their product. I could tie this example in with other examples if you return and would like to continue.
> > > Lou
> > rek,
> > If and when you decide to return, I would also like for you to consider this following example:
> > A friend of mind told me this happened to him amny years ago. He was travleing to California and stopped in a town in Oklahoma where poker was legal. He said that there was a big pot and he was called and had a flush. The other player had a straight. As my friend was taking in the big pot the other player stopped his hand and said, " I have an Oklahoma straight because my straight has in it the 5 of clubs and the 8 of hearts and an Oklahoma straight beats a flush." And a gun was pulled out the other player took the money away from my friend and he had to leave by force.
> > These examples, with others later, I can tie in with what I see in your posts and I think that I have a remedy for this situation and hope that you return.
> > Lou
>
> rsk,
> Another example of a way of thinking that I could tie into all of this that would like for you to cojsider is the following:
> A man was attempting to trade in his car with a dealer and the dealer said to the man, "Would you take $5000.00 for your trade-in? The man agreed to the trade-in and when he was in the office to pay the difference and to take delivery of his new car, the dealer's representative said to the man that they needed $1000.000 more to make the deal. The man was outraged and said that there was a deal made that would allow him $5000.00 for his trade. The dealer's rep then said to him,
> " We asked you if you would take $5000.00 for your trade, not that we would give it to you."
> This went to trial and as I can remember, it is called a {wouldyoutake} and the trial judge ruled that there was an expectation for the man to receive the $5000.00 for his trade and fined the dealer a substantial penalty for what the judge said was deliberate misrepresentation.
> Loursk,
Another aspect of a way of thinking that I would like for you to be aware of as to the following:
An agreemnet was made for a man to build a garage. The man delayed his starting of the job with excuses and stories one after another. Finally, a suit was filed for damages because the job was not started.
In court, the man said that he did agree to build the garege but that he did not say when. The judge rulled against him citing that there was an expectation that he garage would be built {in a reasonable time} so that the one wanting it built could have use of the garage. A substantial judgment was awarded to the one wanting the garage to be built as for the judges rulling in that the man had {a duty to perform} what was understood to be what was agreed on and that was that a garage would be built in a reasonable time to be used. If the garage was built, let's say, 2 years later, the man wanting it built was deprived of the use of the garage during that time. Then it goes to what is {reasonable} which generally means as to what a reasonable person has an {expectation to believe}.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 17:52:42
In reply to Research, informed consent and HIPAA, posted by Jamal Spelling on March 12, 2008, at 14:14:40
> I am under the impression that ... medical research requires informed consent from participants.
That's right, and I'm not doing any research here now. I may in the future, but there will be informed consent. Unless it's considered exempt from that requirement for some reason.
One potential project I'd like to try to get back to if possible is the survey idea we were discussing before...
Bob
Posted by rskontos on March 26, 2008, at 17:55:24
In reply to Re: Research, informed consent, posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 17:52:42
What survey idea? Did I miss it?
rsk
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 18:30:40
In reply to Re: Research, informed consent » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on March 26, 2008, at 17:55:24
> What survey idea? Did I miss it?
It's been a while, unfortunately:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070423/msgs/756470.html
Bob
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