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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zazenducke on February 4, 2008, at 12:32:01
Please reconsider your privacy policies. Dr Grohol makes a good case on his blog. I hope you'll take a look at it. I was not aware that online postings had been used to deny insurance coverage. I would like to see posters accounts deleted on request at the very least.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/02/think-social-networks-are-harmless-think-again/
I remain (but probably not for long)
zazenducke
Posted by zazenducke on February 4, 2008, at 13:00:28
In reply to Protecting the Babble Community, posted by zazenducke on February 4, 2008, at 12:32:01
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1201779829458
Copyright 2008 ALM Properties, Inc. All rights reserved.
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MySpace, Facebook Pages Called Key to Dispute Over Insurance Coverage for Eating Disorders
Mary Pat Gallagher
New Jersey Law Journal
02-01-2008Litigation over an insurer's refusal to pay health benefits for anorexia or bulimia may turn on what is revealed from the alleged sufferers' e-mails and postings on the social networking sites MySpace and Facebook.
The plaintiffs are suing in federal court in Newark, N.J., on behalf of their minor children, who have been denied benefits by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.
Horizon claims that the children's online writings, as well as journal and diary entries, could shed light on the causes of the disorders, which determines the insurer's responsibility for payment. New Jersey law requires coverage of mental illness only if it is biologically based.
Horizon claims the eating problems are not biologically based and that the writings could point to emotional causes. It contends that access to the writings is especially important because the court has barred taking the minors' depositions.
The cases, Beye v. Horizon, 06-Civ.-5337, and Foley v. Horizon, 06-Civ.-6219, have been consolidated for discovery.
In December, U.S. Magistrate Judge Patty Shwartz ordered the plaintiffs to turn over by Jan. 15 the children's e-mails, diaries and other writings about their "eating disorders or manifestations/symptoms thereof, and related health conditions" that had been "shared with others, including entries on Web sites such as 'Facebook' or 'MySpace.'"
On Tuesday, Shwartz ordered the plaintiffs to certify by Feb. 15 whether they have produced everything in their possession in response to the discovery order and what steps they have taken to comply.
Shwartz's December order narrowed the scope of an October order that was not restricted to writings shared with other people. The plaintiffs had asked Shwartz to reconsider the October order on the ground that the writings were therapy tools, not meant to be shown to others, and that their disclosure would cause anxiety and possibly even a relapse.
In a joint letter to Shwartz filed on Jan. 24 by both sides outlining discovery disputes, Horizon complained that the Jan. 15 compliance date came and went without disclosure. The insurer said it heard nothing from the Foley plaintiffs, and got a letter from the Beye plaintiffs saying they had no responsive documents.
The Beye letter's assertion is "an outright misrepresentation," Horizon said in the Jan. 24 letter, because medical providers for Dawn Beye's daughter have produced e-mails from Beye on her Yahoo account.
Noting there must be corresponding e-mails as well as e-mail from the computers of other plaintiffs, Horizon accused the Beye plaintiffs of "hiding the ball" or failing to conduct a diligent search.
Horizon asked Shwartz to sanction Dawn Beye with an adverse inference that her daughter's problems had psychological and emotional causes.
It also requested that all the plaintiffs be required to identify their e-mail accounts, and those of their families, and produce at their own expense a mirror-image copy of the hard drive for every computer used by their family.
In opposing Horizon's request, the Beye plaintiffs referred to the December order's mandate that writings shared with health care professionals be produced as part of the medical records, which they said had already been done and shouldn't have to be duplicated.
The Foley plaintiffs said they had already indicated they had no responsive documents and likened Horizon's requests to "killing a gnat with an atomic bomb."
Shwartz's Tuesday order denied the sanctions sought by Horizon and required only the certifications of diligence.
David Mazie, who represents the Beye plaintiffs, says they have produced whatever they have and have no Facebook or MySpace pages. Mazie, of Roseland, N.J.'s Mazie, Slater, Katz & Freeman, adds that disclosing personal writings would harm the fragile health of his clients.
The Foley plaintiffs lawyer, Bruce Nagel, of Roseland's Nagel Rice, says he believes his clients have no Facebook or MySpace pages. Nagel has filed similar class actions against two other insurers, DeVito v. Aetna, Inc., 07-Civ.- 418, and Kamer v. Cigna Healthcare, 07-Civ.- 1134, in which he says similar requests for minors' journal and Internet writings have not been made. Last October he agreed to a dismissal without prejudice in Kamer for what he terms "technical issues," but he says he plans to refile soon.
Horizon's counsel, Philip Sellinger of Greenberg Traurig in Florham Park, N.J., declines comment.
Horizon might get another crack at the journals, diaries and writings that have been kept private and are thus not currently subject to discovery. In her December order, Shwartz told the plaintiffs to preserve the writings in the event defense experts believe they need them.
Last year, a Union County, N.J., judge denied request for access to a plaintiff's MySpace and FaceBook sites. The Union Township Board of Education asked for the disclosure in a student's suit seeking emotional distress damages, T.V. v. Union Twp. Board of Education, UNN-L-4479-04. Superior Court Judge Kathryn Brock held that the student's privacy interests prevailed, absent a particularized showing of relevance, but left open the possibility that ongoing discovery might provide a basis to change her mind.
Horizon moved Tuesday to dismiss Beye and Foley on the ground that the court should abstain from deciding them because pending state legislation would resolve the issue.
The measure, S-607/A-2077, would amend the Mental Health Parity Law to remove any doubt that eating disorders must be covered like other illnesses. It was approved on Jan. 24 by the Senate Health, Human Services and Senior Citizens Committee and is before the Budget and Appropriations Committee.
An identical measure, S-807, passed the Senate during the past session and was approved by the Assembly Appropriations Committee before it stalled.
Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2008, at 23:41:18
In reply to More information, posted by zazenducke on February 4, 2008, at 13:00:28
If you use a pseudoname how do they know anything about you? And is it only kids? Love Phillipa
Posted by Glydin on February 5, 2008, at 6:19:32
In reply to Re: More information » zazenducke, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2008, at 23:41:18
> If you use a pseudoname how do they know anything about you?
~~~ Servers and personal computers can tell all the internet postings tales, potentially for years, on anyone at anytime if inquired of to do so.
> And is it only kids?~~~ No
The warning of what one writes could be used against one is very real no matter how many made up ID's, profiles etc.... exist.
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2008, at 12:08:49
In reply to Re: More information » Phillipa, posted by Glydin on February 5, 2008, at 6:19:32
So what now? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on February 9, 2008, at 4:28:07
In reply to Protecting the Babble Community, posted by zazenducke on February 4, 2008, at 12:32:01
I agree 100 percent. Anything can be traced by your IP addy. Also, since this site uses Google as a search engine I have found stuff that I wrote years ago when I do a google search.
If policy can not be created, then I think it needs to be made clearer that privacy is a problem.
Maximw
Posted by bulldog2 on February 12, 2008, at 11:26:56
In reply to Protecting the Babble Community, posted by zazenducke on February 4, 2008, at 12:32:01
> Please reconsider your privacy policies. Dr Grohol makes a good case on his blog. I hope you'll take a look at it. I was not aware that online postings had been used to deny insurance coverage. I would like to see posters accounts deleted on request at the very least.
>
>
>
>
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> http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/02/think-social-networks-are-harmless-think-again/
>
> I remain (but probably not for long)
>
> zazenducke
>
>
>I always assumed these posts were secure. Guess that was a bad assumption. I would think such personal issues and problems would or should be on a secure server that would protect the community.
Posted by zazenducke on February 12, 2008, at 12:05:23
In reply to Re: Protecting the Babble Community, posted by bulldog2 on February 12, 2008, at 11:26:56
I'm not sure a secure server would really protct from a supoena. I was a little shocked at the idea of a blanket order to produce email addresses and a copy of the hard drive. I know there was one report of babblers postings being used in a divorce but I had imagined that discovering them would be a chance act rather that as a result of a nonspecific search. Sounds like a fishing expedition.
I had thought they might be used in child custody or divorce situations but the idea of being used to deny health insurance was a new one for me. It also opens up the possibility of records being supoenaed in the case of professional liability-to prove the professional was impaired either by medication or illness to show preexisting conditions and deny insurance . Really creepy.
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> > http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/02/02/think-social-networks-are-harmless-think-again/
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> > I remain (but probably not for long)
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> > zazenducke
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> I always assumed these posts were secure. Guess that was a bad assumption. I would think such personal issues and problems would or should be on a secure server that would protect the community.
Posted by zazenducke on February 12, 2008, at 12:08:56
In reply to Re: Protecting the Babble Community, posted by zazenducke on February 12, 2008, at 12:05:23
...and may not be used as statements of mundane fact in any legal proceedings!!!!!!!!!!!!
zazenducke
artiste
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 13, 2008, at 1:12:30
In reply to Re: Protecting the Babble Community, posted by bulldog2 on February 12, 2008, at 11:26:56
> I always assumed these posts were secure. Guess that was a bad assumption. I would think such personal issues and problems would or should be on a secure server that would protect the community.
When you register, it's with a secure connection, so your computer should encrypt information you enter before sending it.
Registration information and connection logs are stored on the web server. The web server has a security-hardened operating system and hacking alerts. It is in a modern data center and is monitored "24/7". Besides myself, only the computer support people should have direct access to it. Hackers or even burglars might, however, be able to break in.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#privacy
Bob
Posted by zazenducke on February 14, 2008, at 6:31:39
In reply to Re: Protecting the Babble Community, posted by Dr. Bob on February 13, 2008, at 1:12:30
What you say may conceivably be used against you (top o the page Babble quote)
Dr B Thanks for participating in this thread. I hope you will carefully consider the first two posts. I do not think a secure server will protect people from having their posting history supoened in legal actions.....unless you are willing to go to jail for refusing to turn over our information? Like reporters who refuse to turn over their notes on principle? Happy Valentines Day! Peace and Love!
> I always assumed these posts were secure. Guess that was a bad assumption. I would think such personal issues and problems would or should be on a secure server that would protect the community.
>
> When you register, it's with a secure connection, so your computer should encrypt information you enter before sending it.
>
> Registration information and connection logs are stored on the web server. The web server has a security-hardened operating system and hacking alerts. It is in a modern data center and is monitored "24/7". Besides myself, only the computer support people should have direct access to it. Hackers or even burglars might, however, be able to break in.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#privacy
>
> Bob
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 24, 2008, at 10:31:50
In reply to Re: Protecting the Babble Community » Dr. Bob, posted by zazenducke on February 14, 2008, at 6:31:39
Przegl Lek. 2002;59(4-5):375-6.Links
[Internet as a means of persuading a patient to commit a suicide]
[Article in Polish]Chodorowski Z, Sein Anand J.
I Klinika Chorób Wewnetrznych i Ostrych Zatruć Akademii Medycznej, 80-211 Gdańsk, ul. Debinki 7.
In this article we have described 25 year-old female student of the University of Gdańsk, treated for eight years because of depression and for four years because of anorexia nervosa, who to commit suicide had taken [XXXXXXXXXXXXXX.] In 1999 the patient got an internet (IRC) contact with a person introducing herself as a 26 year-old lonely student. After getting acquainted with the life history of the patient she had systematically encouraged the patient to commit suicide. Almost everyday she used to send the patient instructions regarding the best way to kill herself. On parent's request, after the patient regained consciousness in the Clinic, the case was sent to public prosecutor's office. It was found, that the person who urged the girl to commit suicide was a 33 year-old married woman, fascinated by psychology and parapsychology.
PMID: 12184011 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 24, 2008, at 23:58:35
In reply to Be careful who you trust, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 24, 2008, at 10:31:50
Hello Jamal,
In the FAQ, Dr. Bob asks that we not post certain information pertaining to doses of medications that could be used to attempt/commit suicide, as stated below. So, I have deleted a portion of your post:
----------------------Please don't ......(...use this site to exchange **information that could be used to harm**) themselves or others...
***Even if you're quoting someone else.***
Information that could be used to harm oneself includes both***how much it takes to overdose*** and how one can find out how much it takes to overdose. ***Please don't post information like that even if your intent is to warn others.***
Thanks for making the effort to warning members of PB about a potential danger in trusting people - if I understand what I read in the extract correctly, the woman survived, thankfully.
Sincerely,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by 10derHeart on February 25, 2008, at 0:09:49
In reply to Be careful who you trust, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 24, 2008, at 10:31:50
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 25, 2008, at 3:12:34
In reply to Please follow site guidelines » Jamal Spelling, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 24, 2008, at 23:58:35
It did occur to me that this article could be used in the way you describe.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 25, 2008, at 5:26:39
In reply to I'm sorry » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 25, 2008, at 3:12:34
The other point is that there are legal repercussions for giving out dangerous advice online. That woman who encouraged the patient to kill herself was subsequently prosecuted from what I can tell.
Posted by 10derHeart on February 25, 2008, at 10:33:43
In reply to I'm sorry » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 25, 2008, at 3:12:34
This is the end of the thread.
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