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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 48. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on July 6, 2007, at 15:57:28
In reply to Re: consistency, posted by Dr. Bob on July 6, 2007, at 14:31:52
>It can be hard to compare different examples, because the posters, the contexts, and the policies in effect may be different, too...
Bob
But err on the side of gentleness...
PBC are gentle, not bashing blocks.
Can you please unblock Z?
:-(
It just don't seem right that one IMHO.
Posted by confuzyq on July 6, 2007, at 18:16:20
In reply to EXACTLY, posted by muffled on July 6, 2007, at 15:57:28
> >It can be hard to compare different examples, because the posters, the contexts, and the policies in effect may be different, too...
>
> Bob
>
> But err on the side of gentleness...
> PBC are gentle, not bashing blocks.
> Can you please unblock Z?
> :-(
> It just don't seem right that one IMHO.
>
Yes... after, what was it, a hundred and forty-some weeks of good behavior; could she not have just gotten a PBC or Please Rephrase? If hers isn't a good case for restoring one's privilege of prior warnings, and opportunities to prevent a block, I sure don't know what is.And it would have gone way further towards teaching those lessons you want people to learn: the consideration of a warning would have both rewarded her for her good behavior for so so long, while still reminding her of where the lines are.
Posted by scratchpad on July 8, 2007, at 11:04:43
In reply to Re: EXACTLY, posted by confuzyq on July 6, 2007, at 18:16:20
> > >It can be hard to compare different examples, because the posters, the contexts, and the policies in effect may be different, too...
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > But err on the side of gentleness...
> > PBC are gentle, not bashing blocks.
> > Can you please unblock Z?
> > :-(
> > It just don't seem right that one IMHO.
> >
>
>
> Yes... after, what was it, a hundred and forty-some weeks of good behavior; could she not have just gotten a PBC or Please Rephrase? If hers isn't a good case for restoring one's privilege of prior warnings, and opportunities to prevent a block, I sure don't know what is.
>
> And it would have gone way further towards teaching those lessons you want people to learn: the consideration of a warning would have both rewarded her for her good behavior for so so long, while still reminding her of where the lines are.
Something like 4 weeks, maybe? And apply it to Zen's block?
I, too, don't see that prolonged blocks particularly benefit the boards, much less the poster who is being blocked.Scratchpad
Posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 11:21:34
In reply to How about a cap on the length of blocks?, posted by scratchpad on July 8, 2007, at 11:04:43
do what he wants to do. period. fayeroe
Posted by muffled on July 8, 2007, at 11:55:11
In reply to Re: i think we need to drop it.......he's going to, posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 11:21:34
like bashing my head against a wall.
Mebbe posting here can count as SI for me?
I should feel grounded and releived.
:-(
But I don't.
Just pissed off.
:-(
Thanks for trying SP, this really sucks doesn't it?
M
Posted by muffled on July 8, 2007, at 12:01:09
In reply to Re: i think we need to drop it.......he's going to, posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 11:21:34
*This is very clear...
He is the owner.
He has ALL the power here...
He can choose to listen...
or NOT...
:-(
I love babblers...
But I am REALLY NOT happy bout this...
:-(
M
Ownership: Rights and responsibilities
Editor--Eysenbach and Till [1] are right to call attention to the potential difficulties of studying online communities. An underlying problem in many of their examples is that of ownership. Those who provide the mailing lists or Web sites on which online communities are based "own" those communities and have the right to set their goals. When outsiders, even ones with academic credentials, introduce their own agendas, conflict is not surprising.
One solution is for investigators to establish their own communities. As owners, they would then have the right to make research a goal. They would also, of course, have the responsibility of conducting that research ethically.
I host such a community, Psycho-Babble, and have employed two forms of prospective informed consent. The first was implicit. The main and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) pages informed members that a condition of posting messages was allowing me unrestricted use of them, for example, elsewhere on the site or in articles. The FAQ also reminded them that -- regardless of how private they felt the community was -- their messages would be public. I wrote an article describing the community [2] and made it available on the site, and the response was largely positive. Currently, prospective informed consent is explicit. My Institutional Review Board has approved the project and a disclosure statement, and I have added an official "agreement to consent" that individuals can accept by clicking a button.
Robert C Hsiung, MD
Associate Professor of Clinical Psychiatry
Department of Psychiatry
University of Chicago
5737 S. University Ave.
Chicago, IL
60637-1507
USA
Posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 12:06:43
In reply to See, he OWNS it :-( We got NO recourse:-(, posted by muffled on July 8, 2007, at 12:01:09
My Institutional Review Board has approved the project and a disclosure statement, and I have added an official "agreement to consent" that individuals can accept by clicking a button.
Dr. Robert H.
and if the button isn't clicked, what is the choice then??????????????
Posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 12:06:52
In reply to See, he OWNS it :-( We got NO recourse:-(, posted by muffled on July 8, 2007, at 12:01:09
My Institutional Review Board has approved the project and a disclosure statement, and I have added an official "agreement to consent" that individuals can accept by clicking a button.
Dr. Robert H.
and if the button isn't clicked, what is the choice then??????????????
Posted by scratchpad on July 8, 2007, at 16:25:48
In reply to Re: i think we need to drop it.......he's going to, posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 11:21:34
There's been a lot of discussion about blocks and their duration.
I'd like to keep the discussion going.
Long, ongoing blocks are questionable in their efficacy since the posters can still use the chat mode.
And are we not still able to babblemail the posters, if they have the feature enabled?I don't know. I figure - if you block someone, block them completely, or not at all. And for a reasonable length of time.
It's not like Zen is Scooter Libby, here!sp
Posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 16:35:42
In reply to No, I don't think I can. » fayeroe, posted by scratchpad on July 8, 2007, at 16:25:48
i'm tired of tilting at windmills right now.........xoxoxo faye
Posted by zeugma on July 8, 2007, at 16:53:42
In reply to Re: No, I don't think I can. that's cool with me.. » scratchpad, posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 16:35:42
> i'm tired of tilting at windmills right now.........xoxoxo faye>>
My hard drive, at the moment, is full of the results of tilting at windmills.
-z
Posted by fayeroe on July 8, 2007, at 17:16:29
In reply to Re: No, I don't think I can. that's cool with me.. » fayeroe, posted by zeugma on July 8, 2007, at 16:53:42
> > i'm tired of tilting at windmills right now.........xoxoxo faye>>
>
> My hard drive, at the moment, is full of the results of tilting at windmills.
>
>
> -zso is mine..........oh dear, what to do, what to do?
>
>
Posted by muffled on July 8, 2007, at 19:45:43
In reply to Re: consistency, posted by Dr. Bob on July 6, 2007, at 14:31:52
> > I think zen's original monster block was for allegedly speaking disparagingly of Bob ... But relative to recent examples of speaking disparagingly of Bob that went unadmonished, does not seem remotely equitable or consistent.
> >
> > confuzyq
>
> It can be hard to compare different examples, because the posters, the contexts, and the policies in effect may be different, too...
>
> Bob
**Exactly Bob, hard to compare isn't it? Its very complicated. There will never be a simple answer.
So how bout a simple solution, like one suggested by someone, can't remember, but just 1 wk, for first time or two,unless it keeps happening. Clean slate after 6 mo. Give PBC in thread first so poster can have opportunity to apologize and perhaps learn control...it they don't quit THEN block. Give a person a chance.
THAT would be supportive and educational.
I warn my kids B4 i ground them, unless its something pretty darn awful.
I'm tired of this.
I feel like you are not hearing us Bob.
And I KNOW hearing doesan't mean you gonna agree.
But there's more than one of us that feels strongly bout this...
But to no avail...
Its very dissapointing.
M
Posted by Nathan_Arizona on July 9, 2007, at 7:48:21
In reply to No, I don't think I can. » fayeroe, posted by scratchpad on July 8, 2007, at 16:25:48
"It's not like Zen is Scooter Libby, here!"
I can be a bit dense sometimes, I don't understand your reference here. Could you explain what you mean?
Thanks
NA
Posted by fayeroe on July 9, 2007, at 7:55:28
In reply to Re: No, I don't think I can. » scratchpad, posted by Nathan_Arizona on July 9, 2007, at 7:48:21
> "It's not like Zen is Scooter Libby, here!"
>
> I can be a bit dense sometimes, I don't understand your reference here. Could you explain what you mean?
>
> Thanks
>
> NAspeaking for myself, i think she meant that Zen didn't do anything like Scooter Libby was charged with. have you read about his case?
Posted by scratchpad on July 9, 2007, at 9:15:22
In reply to Re: No, I don't think I can., posted by fayeroe on July 9, 2007, at 7:55:28
> > "It's not like Zen is Scooter Libby, here!"
> >
> > I can be a bit dense sometimes, I don't understand your reference here. Could you explain what you mean?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > NA
>
> speaking for myself, i think she meant that Zen didn't do anything like Scooter Libby was charged with. have you read about his case?
>Exactly. Thanks for clarification, Fayerody.
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2007, at 15:34:32
In reply to Re: No, I don't think I can. » scratchpad, posted by Nathan_Arizona on July 9, 2007, at 7:48:21
Ummm, she got no mercy but he did?
Posted by Gabbi-2 on July 11, 2007, at 18:17:46
In reply to Re: No, I don't think I can. » Nathan_Arizona, posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2007, at 15:34:32
Dr. Bob
This "thing" you have about blocking Zen, it's gone on for years. And if you knew how apparent it was I would hope that you'd be ashamed.
I think you need to work on that. And no that wasn't a jokeOf course I'm quite sure that will have no effect.
And neither will this, but I have to register my complete and utter revulsion and this decision.
Getting blocked is bad enough, getting blocked unfairly adds enough frustration to fry someone's mind
Especially of those who are already in a fairly powerless position (I'm speaking of anyone who has to bow down to the power of psychiatry on a regular basis)I'd say more, but not only would it be fruitless, I can't think of anything bad enough.
I'm so sorry Zen.
Posted by fayeroe on July 11, 2007, at 18:30:57
In reply to Oh, Good Grief.., posted by Gabbi-2 on July 11, 2007, at 18:17:46
Posted by muffled on July 11, 2007, at 19:28:23
In reply to Oh, Good Grief.., posted by Gabbi-2 on July 11, 2007, at 18:17:46
Posted by gardenergirl on July 11, 2007, at 22:28:02
In reply to Oh, Good Grief.., posted by Gabbi-2 on July 11, 2007, at 18:17:46
I've said this privately, but I want to say it publicly, too. I was shocked by zen's block. I don't agree with it in the first place, and I think 33 weeks is way way too long. It feels as right to me as giving jail time for jaywalking would.
Dr. Bob, please reverse your decision.
gg
Posted by Honore on July 15, 2007, at 11:23:35
In reply to Re: Oh, Good Grief.., posted by gardenergirl on July 11, 2007, at 22:28:02
I'd like to hear how consideration of changing zen's block and/or the blocking formula is progressing, or whether any conclusions-- provisional or permanent-- have been reached.
Honore
Posted by 10derheart on July 16, 2007, at 17:38:33
In reply to Re: What is happening with the block(s)??? » gardenergirl, posted by Honore on July 15, 2007, at 11:23:35
This is up above......
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070702/msgs/769901.html
Posted by Honore on July 17, 2007, at 9:57:20
In reply to Re: What is happening with the block(s)??? » Honore, posted by 10derheart on July 16, 2007, at 17:38:33
Forgive me if I don't see how that addresses the concerns of those who found zen's block inappropriately long.
Bob said that he could not yet respond to objections to the the harshness of the block, or its necessity (given the questionable incivility of zen's comment in the thread)--but that HE WOULD.
This is that response?
Does anyone think that extending zen's block by reducing the time deducted from the original block when calculating the length of this one addresses those concerns?
Honore
Posted by 10derheart on July 17, 2007, at 13:24:18
In reply to Re: What is happening with the block(s)???, posted by Honore on July 17, 2007, at 9:57:20
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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