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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:11:07
In reply to So who is the F*ck You Fairy asper GG ?, posted by Happyflower on June 12, 2007, at 15:16:48
As an explanation about something that seems to be upsetting many people.
Often things are posted that can be interpreted in many ways. The writing board is particularly vulnerable in this area, and I suspect it's why great literature is considered great although I have never really understood great literature so I don't know if that's correct or just a projection based on my own confusion.
On occasion posts are brought to my attention that when explained as reported appear to be uncivil. But as I read the responses it is clear that others have interpreted the post differently.
I will not claim to be able to read gg's mind, but to me it is entirely reasonable to assume that she was talking about the internal voice that often follows us around to comment on what we've done in a critical way.
Does that mean that incivility can sometimes slip through in obscure posts or ambiguous posts (not speaking to this post or any post in particular)? Certainly it can. I know I often feel like posts I don't understand at all are in violation of the civility guidelines. But if I don't understand them well enough, I can't in all due conscience do anything about them, unless they are in violation of some other aspect of the civility guidelines. But the alternative, a draconian crackdown on anything that might be uncivil, does not appeal to me. If it appeals to others, they are free to suggest rule changes to Dr. Bob, without naming specific posts as examples.
I'll look at the thread again to see if anything was less open to different interpretations than the original post. If you wish to suggest posts to look at, please do so by using the reporting function rather than mentioning them on board.
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:13:42
In reply to Fairies and writing boards, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:11:07
I should, I suppose, add that context is important. A post in reply to another post gives context to the reply so there is less ambiguity involved.
Posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 9:14:27
In reply to Fairies and writing boards, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:11:07
Referring someone (whoever that someone is) in *chat* is not an abstract - it is concrete and it is a poster who posts on babble. All this talk of abstraction, projection and assumption is moot when you refer to someone in chat because it refers to someone here. End of story.
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:21:49
In reply to Re: Fairies and writing boards - the concrete, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 9:14:27
to report any specifics.
Posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 10:00:56
In reply to Please use the report this post button » dispatcher, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:21:49
I'm sorry, but this all very confusing - someone can refer to a post to say that it's projection or assumption but it's not OK to point to the specific cases, showing that it's not assumption or projection.
It doesn't seem right that one can discuss (or defend) one and not the other.
Maybe it's something I'm not seeing - but it reminds me of the big pink elephant in the middle of the room, but one is not allowed to name it.
Why use the notification button in this case? Especially when the post in question discusses a babble poster, from a deputy or former deputy? This silence does not sit right with me, especially since it is not being addressed or discussed - while other issues, like "offensive" language are brought to task relatively quickly.
Please explain this, as I said, I do not understand. & I was only replying to posts which referred to this as creative writing *abstractions* - which they are most certainly not.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 13, 2007, at 10:01:13
In reply to Please use the report this post button » dispatcher, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 9:21:49
For anyone who is interested, that poem was written in April.
GG and I were having a tiff back then. It has since been ironed out.
Did anyone notice that the "I think it worked!" post was also in April - around the time I took a break?
Thank you, gg, for not telling on me.
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 10:08:08
In reply to Re: Please use the report this post button » Dinah, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 10:00:56
I asked in a previous post, and I was repeating it again, for anyone who wanted to point out specifics from posts in that thread to use the report this post function rather than discuss it on board.
I've said this several times now, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to enforce the request if there are any further discussions of the potential incivility of a specific post, or phrases from a post, or about a poster.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 13, 2007, at 10:24:48
In reply to Re: Please use the report this post button » Dinah, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 10:00:56
> Especially when the post in question discusses a babble poster, from a deputy or former deputy?
Please do not jump to conclusions about my creative writing. I'm feeling increasingly resentful when reading what my poem supposedly is about given that the authors of those messages could have no way of knowing this, unless there is some new technology out there for getting inside someone's brain and interpreting the electrical activity from afar.
> This silence does not sit right with me, especially since it is not being addressed or discussed - while other issues, like "offensive" language are brought to task relatively quickly.
Offensive language issues are easy to address. For issues that deputies choose to defer to or consult with Dr. Bob, it's not so simple. Given Dr. Bob's availability recently, I think the Man in Black said it best, "Get used to disappointment."
>
> Please explain this, as I said, I do not understand. & I was only replying to posts which referred to this as creative writing *abstractions* - which they are most certainly not.I refer you to the first sentence in my message. It applies here as well.
Thanks,
gg
Posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 10:37:36
In reply to assumptions and patience » dispatcher, posted by gardenergirl on June 13, 2007, at 10:24:48
I wasn't necessarily talking about your post -
Posted by gardenergirl on June 13, 2007, at 10:38:13
In reply to Re: Thanks for not telling, GG, posted by AuntieMel on June 13, 2007, at 10:01:13
...given how far you had to travel to follow me around. ;)
gg
Posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 11:39:53
In reply to assumptions and patience » dispatcher, posted by gardenergirl on June 13, 2007, at 10:24:48
Namaste, gg, namaste -
I'm sorry if you are feeling increasingly resentful. But as you (& Racer) have said before -no one can make you feel anything. I hope you are not accusing me of reading your mind & therefor feeling resentful b/c of it, because I can assure you - I cannot read minds.
But, hopefully to make you feel better - & as a special treat I quoted the Satya for you - the second yama of ashtanga yoga.
>"Satya is truthfulness. It is more than just telling the truth. One's actions should be in accordance with one's words and thoughts. God and man's true Self are truth, and in order to tune in with that consciousness we need to live truthfully at all times. Furthermore lying creates many thoughts in the mind which go against the raja yoga objective of calming the mind.
Depending on one's inclination, there can be different conceptions of the truth. A moralist cares for the results of the truth so that if a lie must be told in order to bring about the greatest good for the greatest number of people, then this can only be the truth. It is easy to fall into this pitfall thinking that you are helping many people when in fact you may be arranging circumstances to benefit only yourself. One must be always watching the mind to be sure where one's true motive's lie.
The conception of truth for a spiritual man is that Brahman is the only absolute truth and everything else is ultimately an untruth. Many uncompassionate people can use this idea as a way to justify their actions when in fact they are really hurting a number of people with their untruths.
In this modern age, it is commonly accepted for people to commit to various things and to have no intention of keeping their word, the feeling being it is more important to tell someone what they think they want to hear rather than simply telling the truth. Swami Sivananda instructs us that it would be better to say something like, "I'll try, let me think it over," so that you don't make commitments you can't keep.
While telling the truth it is important to speak in a positive way so as not to cause hurt, yet at the same time be as straightforward and sincere as possible. To many people it might seem impractical or too difficult to always be truthful, but if practiced over time it becomes easier and many stumbling blocks along the path are removed.
"Truth is righteousness. Righteousness is light, and light is bliss. Ahimsa, Brahmacharya, purity, justice, harmony, forgiveness, peace are forms of truth... Truth stands even when there is no public support.
Swami Sivananda, Bliss Divine"
Posted by Happyflower on June 13, 2007, at 12:06:27
In reply to oh I forgot - » gardenergirl, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 11:39:53
Wow, I wish I could have said that! That is what I was thinking mostly. I think I will frame that and hang it by my computer. ;-) I think a lot of babblers understand what you are saying, dispatcher, and thank you from me. But like everything else around here, NOTHING will change when the power is out of our hands. I may not have any power at Babble, but my personal power and truth will always lead me the right way. It has all my life, I have risen above a lot in my life, and I know in my heart the truth.
Satya!
Happyflower
Posted by scratchpad on June 13, 2007, at 12:14:39
In reply to + whatta about these? oh, who can the poster be???, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 7:49:03
>
> Nothing to say girls?Why, yes I do - please don't call me a girl.
thanksScratchpad
Posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 12:27:27
In reply to Re: + whatta about these? oh, who can the poster b » dispatcher, posted by scratchpad on June 13, 2007, at 12:14:39
Posted by sleepygirl on June 13, 2007, at 13:12:30
In reply to Namaste (nm) » scratchpad, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 12:27:27
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 13:23:02
In reply to Please stop this f'ing ridiculous thread (nm), posted by sleepygirl on June 13, 2007, at 13:12:30
It's fine to ask for a thread to please be stopped, and the first part of your request was ok. But the idea is to not have people who have invested their time and energy in a thread feel put down.
With that in mind, would you mind rephrasing?
An alternative might be to use I statements. For example, and I'm not sure if this is a reflection of your thoughts, so it's just an example, it would be ok to say that you're upset that so many people are hurt or upset.
If you're in any doubt, you can run potential rephrases by a deputy or a poster knowledgeable in civility rules.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by fayeroe on June 13, 2007, at 15:00:53
In reply to oh I forgot - » gardenergirl, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 11:39:53
> Namaste, gg, namaste -
>
> I'm sorry if you are feeling increasingly resentful. But as you (& Racer) have said before -no one can make you feel anything. I hope you are not accusing me of reading your mind & therefor feeling resentful b/c of it, because I can assure you - I cannot read minds.
>
> But, hopefully to make you feel better - & as a special treat I quoted the Satya for you - the second yama of ashtanga yoga.
>
> >"Satya is truthfulness. It is more than just telling the truth. One's actions should be in accordance with one's words and thoughts. God and man's true Self are truth, and in order to tune in with that consciousness we need to live truthfully at all times. Furthermore lying creates many thoughts in the mind which go against the raja yoga objective of calming the mind.
>
> Depending on one's inclination, there can be different conceptions of the truth. A moralist cares for the results of the truth so that if a lie must be told in order to bring about the greatest good for the greatest number of people, then this can only be the truth. It is easy to fall into this pitfall thinking that you are helping many people when in fact you may be arranging circumstances to benefit only yourself. One must be always watching the mind to be sure where one's true motive's lie.
>
> The conception of truth for a spiritual man is that Brahman is the only absolute truth and everything else is ultimately an untruth. Many uncompassionate people can use this idea as a way to justify their actions when in fact they are really hurting a number of people with their untruths.
>
> In this modern age, it is commonly accepted for people to commit to various things and to have no intention of keeping their word, the feeling being it is more important to tell someone what they think they want to hear rather than simply telling the truth. Swami Sivananda instructs us that it would be better to say something like, "I'll try, let me think it over," so that you don't make commitments you can't keep.
>
> While telling the truth it is important to speak in a positive way so as not to cause hurt, yet at the same time be as straightforward and sincere as possible. To many people it might seem impractical or too difficult to always be truthful, but if practiced over time it becomes easier and many stumbling blocks along the path are removed.
>
>
> "Truth is righteousness. Righteousness is light, and light is bliss. Ahimsa, Brahmacharya, purity, justice, harmony, forgiveness, peace are forms of truth... Truth stands even when there is no public support.
> Swami Sivananda, Bliss Divine"bowing and hearty applause. fayeroe
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Sigismund on June 13, 2007, at 15:39:30
In reply to Re: oh I forgot - » dispatcher, posted by fayeroe on June 13, 2007, at 15:00:53
Posted by sleepygirl on June 13, 2007, at 16:20:14
In reply to Please rephrase » sleepygirl, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 13:23:02
sorry, it's just really awful to read all the jabs thrown about here
so I shall refrain from reading here for a while
I know a lot about living around hostility and with people who are just about getting their shots in
see you soon
Posted by tofuemmy on June 13, 2007, at 18:06:16
In reply to oh I forgot - » gardenergirl, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 11:39:53
I feel very sad to see the Dharma used this way.
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2007, at 18:24:19
In reply to Re: Please rephrase » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl on June 13, 2007, at 16:20:14
> sorry, it's just really awful to read all the jabs thrown about here
>
> I know a lot about living around hostility and with people who are just about getting their shots inPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues as well as replies to the above posts should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by DAisym on June 14, 2007, at 1:46:05
In reply to + whatta about these? oh, who can the poster be???, posted by dispatcher on June 13, 2007, at 7:49:03
For my part, it was "me" -- Daisy -- a flower...get it? So much for being light and silly. Truthfully, I had to go back to writing and look at it because my first reaction was "I didn't write that!" But I did - more than a month ago, and I see now a pbc sitting there. Surprise! I believe some assumptions are being made about my intent that are not correct but I'm guessing that nothing I say now will matter anyway. For what it's worth, I truly did not mean to be uncivil or unkind.
I think my problem is that I so rarely come to admin (I was sent a note telling me this was going on here, and I was implicated, which is the only reason I'm reading over here tonight) that a post might seem to reflect or comment on something going on here or elsewhere on Babble when actually I have no idea about what might be going on. Not everyone reads all or even most of the boards.
Posted by Dinah on June 14, 2007, at 4:09:28
In reply to Re: + whatta about these? oh, who can the poster be??? » dispatcher, posted by DAisym on June 14, 2007, at 1:46:05
I guess I was one of those people.
:(
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 14, 2007, at 6:54:59
In reply to I'm sorry Daisy » DAisym, posted by Dinah on June 14, 2007, at 4:09:28
Asking why I wasn't around at babble much.
I am shocked anyone needed to ask that question.. Has anyone read back over, as one small example, this thread?!
*shakes head and walks back out*
Posted by muffled on June 14, 2007, at 9:28:02
In reply to I received an email..., posted by NikkiT2 on June 14, 2007, at 6:54:59
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