![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:51:58
There is a number of elements that define a "cult", not listing all of them, here is some identifying characteristics outling the definition:
1) Recruiting work performed by all of the members (although they may deny that is what they are doing).
2) People not allowed to discuss criticism of the leader(s), the doctrine, or the organization, or read information that is critical of the religion.
3) Members spy on one another and report improper activities or comments to leaders.
4) Members taught to suppress anything which might reflect negatively to outsiders about the religion.
5) Usually, the doctrine is absolutist and the ideology is internalized as "the Truth."
6) Members told to avoid contact with ex-members or critics, even their relatives.
7) Members instilled with a deep fear about ever leaving the organization, and anyone who does depart is of the devil.
8) Emotional control - terror of being caught and punished by leaders.
9) Disciplinary action administered by group leaders, which may involve excommunication for such things as questioning organization policy or doctrine.
10) People foregoing education and career interests to perform recruiting and other organization endeavors.
11) Advocate socializing only with other members in the organization.
12) Fear of separation from the organization.
13) Members often isolating themselves from friends, family, and society
14) Use of deceptive and unethical recruiting techniques
15) Use of manipulative methods to control the minds of followers
I read an article recently on the subject of a "cults" then through seeing Dr Bob's new picture at the top the page and reading this question and answer, made me want to look further into this.
>Over time, I might withdrawl from real life and my only social interaction would be these boards, where I am sheltered.
>If someone gets their needs met online, is that a bad thing?
At first I took the question for example of someone saying "I might *withdraw* from real life and my *only* social interaction would be these boards" (So someone withdraws from real life, reality, and then their only social interaction is the boards at babble, their life before that has effectively disappeared.)
The leader answers, "If someone gets their *needs* (the *withdrawn* only social interaction from their previous healthy functioning) met online, is that a bad thing?" I took this at first as saying, "so now you *only* use my *boards* as your *only social interaction* because of mental distress, then following, oh thats not so bad?" (If someone does something not particularly good, its sometimes questioned by, "oh, you think thats a good thing?" subconsciously this makes you think, is it bad? Which follows if you ask someone, "is that a bad thing?", you will look at the good, not always, but think about it.) If someone withdraws from their life and use's a message board to support their emotional needs, instead of dealing with issues in real life, what with internet addiction and the complications of being able to easily avoid using real life methods to get back on track to a previous healthy functioning state, make me wonder about certain predicaments that may arise.
When someone is diagnosed with a mental illness a list of cluster symptoms are used to describe symptoms, which if a patient has a certain number, they are therefore diagnosed with that disorder. Using the same method for the list above (which does not include all characteristics) I have witnessed points 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,& 15, which is 11 out of 15 factors, in the previous years at babble to varying degrees.
Due to numbers 2, 3, 8, 9 & 12, I cannot paste where I got the information about "cults" from.
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:54:45
In reply to Are there similarities between Babble and a Cult?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:51:58
The new picture looks like a close up for the new poster marketing the remake for the movie "The Wicker Man" being released next month! (Cult horror movie)!
~
Posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 10:38:46
In reply to Are there similarities between Babble and a Cult?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:51:58
>
> 2) People not allowed to discuss criticism of the leader(s), the doctrine, or the organization, or read information that is critical of the religion.You posted this & these kinds of discussions happen all the time here.
> 6) Members told to avoid contact with ex-members or critics, even their relatives.
>Could you give referances to where this happened ?
>
> 9) Disciplinary action administered by group leaders, which may involve excommunication for such things as questioning organization policy or doctrine.Proof ?
>
> 10) People foregoing education and career interests to perform recruiting and other organization endeavors.Proof ?
>
> 11) Advocate socializing only with other members in the organization.Proof ?
If you think this is a cult, then the best thing to do is leave as quickly as possible. Cults are quite serious, get out if you think you are becoming envolved with one.
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 12:47:41
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 10:38:46
>Could you give referances to where this happened ?
I could painstakenly search through the archives, but it would take afew hours, to which I unfortunately don't have these days..
>Proof ?
The archive
>If you think this is a cult, then the best thing to do is leave as quickly as possible.
I think it shares some similarities. I'm certain others will say otherwize!
>Cults are quite serious, get out if you think you are becoming envolved with one.
I'm not involved in cults outside of babble, if "one" is what your refering to as outside of babble.
~
Posted by Phillipa on August 4, 2006, at 14:13:20
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 12:47:41
Interesting mind if I follow? The thread. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 14:16:38
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 12:47:41
> >Could you give referances to where this happened ?
>
> I could painstakenly search through the archives, but it would take afew hours, to which I unfortunately don't have these days..
>
> >Proof ?
>
> The archive
I have been through the archives and I do not find any proof.
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 14:39:23
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 14:16:38
>have been through the archives and I do not find any proof.
You're a quick reader! If I attempted to read the medication archive from june 98' alone it would probably take me over a thousand hours to read, let alone administration from 2000 and all the other boards...
Heres a quick example of 2 out of the 5 points you mentioned from the 15 listed. Scroll up and you will see a joke (2).(criticism of the leader(s), the doctrine, or the organization)
Then you will see (9). Disciplinary action administered by group leaders, which may involve excommunication for such things as questioning organization policy or doctrine.
Very brief example, not the best, but as I said they happen to varying degrees. You mentioned point number 2 happens all the time here and your right, as does point number 9 usually follow, not always, sometimes when expected, and sometimes when you don't. As I mentioned I didn't write the points personally, I copied them.
2) People not allowed to discuss criticism of the leader(s), the doctrine, or the organization, or read information that is critical of the religion
9) Disciplinary action administered by group leaders, which may involve excommunication for such things as questioning organization policy or doctrine.
I wouldn't spend too much time searching, history has a habit of repeating itself :-)
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 15:02:05
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu » Sobriquet Style, posted by Phillipa on August 4, 2006, at 14:13:20
>Interesting mind if I follow? The thread.
Sure. To make another point, i'm only interested in the *similarities* i'm not saying babble 'is' a cult. Like whales are similar to fish (they both swim in the sea) Haddock is a fish, a Humpback Whale is a mammal, or porpoise. They're similar, but simply not exactly the same animal.
I was interested in what types of cults exist too. Heres a list I found: (copied from another website all about cult infomation)
Eastern religious
Christian abberational
Satanic
Occult/witchcraft/voodoo
Spiritualist
Racist
Zen and Sino/Japanese philosophical-mystical
Flying saucer and outer space
Psychotherapy
Mass therapy or transformational training
Political
New age
Commercial
Communal/self-help
~
Posted by madeline on August 4, 2006, at 16:04:16
In reply to Are there similarities between Babble and a Cult?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:51:58
In some things on the list, I found striking similarities between Babble and a cult, in others, I didn't.
But an interesting read no doubt.
Maddie
Posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 16:10:43
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 14:39:23
> 2) People not allowed to discuss criticism of the leader(s), the doctrine, or the organization, or read information that is critical of the religionDr Bob is being crtitizied right now. Nothing dramitic has happened.
>
> 9) Disciplinary action administered by group leaders, which may involve excommunication for such things as questioning organization policy or doctrine.
>
OK, so you are expelled from school cause you did something against the rules.So school is a cult.
Posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 16:39:41
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 16:10:43
I found some intresting defs for cults at
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm
"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect; but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.
"Cults are claimed to be deceitful. They are claimed to be harmful to their members. They are claimed to be undermining American values. Cults are claimed to be just about every bad thing in the book these days, and with the pervasive images of Manson and Jim Jones hanging over us, any group that is called a cult is immediately associated with those two people." J. Gordon Melton.
"My working definition of a cult is a group that you don't like, and I say that somewhat facetiously, but at the same time, in fact, that is my working definition of a cult. It is a group that somebody doesn't like. It is a derogatory term, and I have never seen it redeemed from the derogatory connotations that it picked up in the sociological literature in the 1930s." J. Gordon Melton.
"A cult is a church down the street from your church." Anon
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 18:14:24
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by notfred on August 4, 2006, at 16:10:43
>Dr Bob is being crtitizied right now. Nothing dramitic has happened.
I've not mentioned about anything dramatic happening?
>OK, so you are expelled from school cause you did something against the rules.
>So school is a cult.
Not exactly. A cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes and roles. There is no appeal outside of his or her system to greater systems of justice. For example, if a school teacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, appeals can be made. In a cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters. - You will often find the deputies here use the exact same words when justifying a block, "Dr Bob has the final say on all administrative matters etc"
Does this mean babble is a cult? No. It means theres similarities. The grey area between black and white, do you follow?
Do cults exist? Yes. Would I join one? Not knowingly.
Could an online cult even exist purely online without outside influence? I doubt it. Do some groups whether online or in real life look like cults, without actually being one in reality? I'm sure its possible!
~
Posted by gardenergirl on August 4, 2006, at 19:49:57
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cu, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 18:14:24
> You will often find the deputies here use the exact same words when justifying a block, "Dr Bob has the final say on all administrative matters etc"
That has nothing to do with "justifying" a block. It's a courtesy to let the poster know that the action taken by the deputy might be the last of it, since Dr. Bob can override deputy actions in either direction.
gg
Posted by sleepygirl on August 4, 2006, at 20:18:42
In reply to Are there similarities between Babble and a Cult?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:51:58
just cause we all have to kneel and pray in the direction of the university of chicago 5X a day you think it's a cult? ;-)
the presence of authority is not necessarily a cultish thing, we are subjected to authority in many forms in our lives....people come and go here as I see it, those who don't like it eventually leave, much dissent exists- it's a choice, there are rules of "etiquette" everywhere, subtle and not so subtle
Posted by Adrift on August 4, 2006, at 22:27:51
In reply to whatdya mean it's a cult?, posted by sleepygirl on August 4, 2006, at 20:18:42
Posted by canadagirl on August 4, 2006, at 22:47:15
In reply to Are there similarities between Babble and a Cult?, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 4, 2006, at 6:51:58
Well as long as I don't have wear a robe and hand out pamphlets on the street.
Posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 23:10:25
In reply to Re: Are there similarities between Babble and a Cult?, posted by canadagirl on August 4, 2006, at 22:47:15
There are dissimilarities as well.
Posted by Phillipa on August 4, 2006, at 23:14:15
In reply to There are similarities between me and Meg Ryan, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 23:10:25
How I wish!!!!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 5, 2006, at 4:47:31
In reply to final say on administrative matters » Sobriquet Style, posted by gardenergirl on August 4, 2006, at 19:49:57
>That has nothing to do with "justifying" a block.
Concluding, is the word I was looking for.
>It's a courtesy to let the poster know that the action taken by the deputy
Hypothetically its courtesy? does the poster being silenced and knowing that the deputies leader might let them off, give them a feeling that its a polite gester to know, that they may not be deemed, publicly, uncivil afterall? Could be relief or gratefulness, maybe frustration, possibly humiliation.
And more power to the leader reinforced, or made democratic?
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 5, 2006, at 5:30:48
In reply to There are similarities between me and Meg Ryan, posted by Dinah on August 4, 2006, at 23:10:25
>There are dissimilarities as well.
Of course. I know Dr Bob may not particulary like what I've written comparing babble and a cult. However I see similarities, also I see differences between the two. I predicted that possibly the responses by the deputies and perhaps close members would be veering towards the differences...
Which again makes me see another interesting point, lets say for example, outside of babble of course, that someone joins a group, that group is in actual fact a cult. After a while they realise the group they originally joined appears to be showing a side which makes the person feel its similar to a cult. They bring the subject to the members, subordinates and leader. Would the members, more the subordinates and especially the leader - simply say, "yeah your right this is cult, took you long enough to know, etc.." Or would they disregard the matter and/or try and get the person to see otherwize?
Oh well, either way I think i've concluded my participation on the subject, I find it very interesting but would prefer not put too much thought in to it, as I have already. It has made me think alot about this site though, I was thinking how a website that has the power to help so many, and yet quite possibly cause harm to many and because its the internet no one really knows unless its written and recorded on here. It would be nice to know that this website is represented by some sort of professional body, whether it be the University, APA, mental health charity or some other organization. I know its just a website, but when you look at the volume of time people spend here and that its said to be a "virtual community" its clearly a big part of peoples lifes, and I feel that gives reason to someone other than one man who said using someone elses words "can do whatever the f*ck he likes" to be regulated, or even sponsered by another authority.
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 5, 2006, at 5:32:45
In reply to whatdya mean it's a cult?, posted by sleepygirl on August 4, 2006, at 20:18:42
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2006, at 8:40:30
In reply to Re: There are similarities between me and Meg Ryan, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 5, 2006, at 5:30:48
I didn't particularly mind what you wrote. :)
But frankly, after having considered the matter, I'd far rather spend my time considering the similarities between me and Meg Ryan.
Posted by Gabbi~G on August 5, 2006, at 12:02:24
In reply to Re: There are similarities between me and Meg Ryan, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2006, at 8:40:30
You Can't have an on-line cult, without outside reinforcement, anymore than you can have an on-line prison.
There are similarities between being asleep and being dead too, but the crux is when you're asleep you're not dead.
There a similiraties between being at work and joining a cult, or going to the park. The reason something is a cult is because of the extremes methods used to isolate and brainswash members.
If those aren't there, it's not a cult. Plain and simple. Drawing similarities is a red herring.
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 6, 2006, at 9:02:47
In reply to Good Grief, posted by Gabbi~G on August 5, 2006, at 12:02:24
>Drawing similarities is a red herring.
Resemblance between two subjects doesn't necessarily indicate someone is trying to draw attention away from another issue or mislead by writing about a bogus topic...unless you were meaning that nutritious fish that is occaionally cooked? :-)
>You Can't have an on-line cult, without outside reinforcement
I think we share the same view, as I said eariler, "Could an online cult even exist purely online without outside influence? I doubt it."
>The reason something is a cult is because of the extremes methods used to isolate and brainswash members.
>If those aren't there, it's not a cult. Plain and simple.I'm not sure if its always that black and white, but I think I share a comparable belief to what you're saying.
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on August 6, 2006, at 9:05:50
In reply to Re: Good Grief, posted by Sobriquet Style on August 6, 2006, at 9:02:47
And thanks to everyone else too.
:-)
~
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