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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by gardenergirl on March 15, 2006, at 14:40:53
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2006, at 14:02:43
Reading the thread can give context to what Ed was referring to. But it doesn't change what he wrote and why it was sanctioned.
I misinterpreted your post, though--reading too fast. Sorry.
gg
Posted by 10derHeart on March 15, 2006, at 15:16:21
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on March 15, 2006, at 14:40:53
Without going back to look, I think there were two or more separate threads that stemmed off of the original (ongoing?) discussion about old/new Nardil. I did read all the way through at least two of them, so I did recall ed previously being warned about his own response/labeling as 'rude' of a posters's response to some of his opinions/ideas/thoughts on the matter.
But Phillipa, it's not at all farfetched to guess I hadn't read a Nardil thread. Don't take it or know anyone IRL who does, and rarely post on meds board except about ADD/ADHD and sometimes beta blockers. But sometimes, because I see the names of posters I 'know' and care about there, I do read (you and gg, for instance) and I learn so much about meds, pdocs, drug companies and the courage, intelligence and tenacity of Babblers! So it's well worth the read :-)
Too bad things get so heated. I'm glad people are passionate - it can be quite a tool in the arsenal of navigating the mental health world, but sometimes goes over the line for Babble civility.
Ed wasn't the only one PBC'd or blocked - once again evidence of fairness and evenhandedness, IMO. (thanks gg, other deputies, Dr. Bob) I know it's tough on other posters when a long-time poster, friend and helper can't be here for a while :-(
Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2006, at 16:06:02
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » gardenergirl, posted by 10derHeart on March 15, 2006, at 15:16:21
How is the word unkind uncivi? I think that this word is used a lot in the UK. But then again I may be wrong as I often am. I just hate to Ed blocked when I know at least two posters on the med board only listen to what he says. And right now they are vulnerable not saying others aren't too. I guess I just feel bad for ED he spends so much time trying to help others. Oh well I miss you Ed. Love PJ O
Posted by gardenergirl on March 15, 2006, at 16:29:51
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked?, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2006, at 16:06:02
Characterizing another post or poster as something negative, as in "unkind" is not considered to be civil. Instead, one could say something like, "I felt slighted" or some other feeling word that represents how the "unkindness" affected the other.
It's all about "I" statemnents rather than "you/it" statements.
gg
Posted by Racer on March 15, 2006, at 16:37:48
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked?, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2006, at 16:06:02
> How is the word unkind uncivi?
I think the idea was that Ed was, by using that word to describe a post, characterizing someone's message as unkind, and, by extention, characterizing the person who posted it as unking, as well.
That's where Civility rules can get a little dicey -- when you say that something "is unkind," you run the risk of it being interpreted as the person who wrote it being unkind. That's where I statements come in. Although I don't have a suggestion right now for what that would look like.
Hope that helps.
Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2006, at 16:53:07
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Phillipa, posted by Racer on March 15, 2006, at 16:37:48
Racer thanks that does help . Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on March 15, 2006, at 19:51:53
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on March 15, 2006, at 16:29:51
GG, He DID use an "I" statement.
I am totally confused. What is going on here?
Dr. Bob: You have mentioned many times that I statements are ok. Has this policy changed? Please advise.
warm regards, Jake
> It's all about "I" statemnents rather than "you/it" statements.
>
> gg
> your rather unkind (I thought) post (Ed_UK)
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 15, 2006, at 20:53:34
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » gardenergirl, posted by Jakeman on March 15, 2006, at 19:51:53
No, that's one hoop that trips up many, many for a long long time ; )
For instance, if that were an okay "I" statement, then it mean it would also be okay to say "I think you are stupid"
"I feel you're an idiot"An *I* statement according to the rules of the site, means you describe how you felt about what was said.
"I felt, hurt, slighted, insulted"
Instead of
"I think you are rude, or a jerk"That's really hard, because sometimes it's not the truth.
Sometimes someone is purposely trying to get your goat, and you're allowed to say "I feel hurt by that"
But often you're not hurt, you're just really bugged.
But you could say "That really annoys me"
or "I'm really disgusted by that"As long as you don't say "That was disgusting"
I hope I described that okay.
They aren't really as limiting as it might seem at first.
Posted by Jakeman on March 15, 2006, at 21:19:46
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Jakeman, posted by Gabbix2 on March 15, 2006, at 20:53:34
Gabbix,
Thanks for your response. But I'm still not clear about this, please excuse my being slow.
If I say, "I thought you were rather unkind"
is that uncivil?I want to dismiss myself from this thread. I find it maddening. It takes up too much of my life. At the same time, I want to get some resolution about this point in case me or others want to post something in the future.
I do feel that we are splitting hairs at this point. I'm totally against put-downs and personal attacks. If anyone was really offended by Ed's statements I hope they will say so.
warm regards ~Jake
> No, that's one hoop that trips up many, many for a long long time ; )
>
> For instance, if that were an okay "I" statement, then it mean it would also be okay to say "I think you are stupid"
> "I feel you're an idiot"
>
> An *I* statement according to the rules of the site, means you describe how you felt about what was said.
> "I felt, hurt, slighted, insulted"
> Instead of
> "I think you are rude, or a jerk"
>
> That's really hard, because sometimes it's not the truth.
> Sometimes someone is purposely trying to get your goat, and you're allowed to say "I feel hurt by that"
> But often you're not hurt, you're just really bugged.
> But you could say "That really annoys me"
> or "I'm really disgusted by that"
>
> As long as you don't say "That was disgusting"
>
> I hope I described that okay.
> They aren't really as limiting as it might seem at first.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 15, 2006, at 22:35:43
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Gabbix2, posted by Jakeman on March 15, 2006, at 21:19:46
I do know. It is often to me splitting hairs when the intent is obvious. I only talk about it calmly now, because I think I've sort of given up.
I remember when someone posted a very racist post and another poster said "I find that offensive" Not "I'm offended" and they got blocked.
It can be extremely maddening.
But yes, saying "I feel you were being unkind"
Would be considered uncivil (By the board)
I wish there was another word than civil used, because in truth, it's actually VERY civil.
Just not by the rules implemented here.
It isn't always the meaning, it's the wording.
So whew.. sorry I'm going on.
Even if Ed had said "what you said disgusts me" although it's more harsh, (IMO) it would have been okay and not blocked.What he technically should have said was
"I feel .. slighted.. or whatever, by that remark"Someone else can probably explain better than I.
I hope that helped a little.. even though I know sometimes understanding the rules can make you more frustrated, and shake your head in disbelief.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 15, 2006, at 23:58:18
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Jakeman, posted by Gabbix2 on March 15, 2006, at 22:35:43
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 16, 2006, at 13:00:08
In reply to Good explanation, thanks Gabbi (nm) » Gabbix2, posted by gardenergirl on March 15, 2006, at 23:58:18
I should have added of course, that I appreciate the spirit of the civility rules, I really do.
And overall, I'm glad that they exist.
Posted by yxibow on March 16, 2006, at 13:34:43
In reply to Thank you. G.G » gardenergirl, posted by Gabbix2 on March 16, 2006, at 13:00:08
> I should have added of course, that I appreciate the spirit of the civility rules, I really do.
> And overall, I'm glad that they exist.
>
>I appreciate the concept of civility rules, but as they say you can't please all the people all the time. What is said online, in text, is not what you would see if we all gathered in a group support room, with a moderator. As they say, you can't please all the people all the time. Yes, there are individuals on here who may have emotional fragility because of their conditions, but sometimes I think things go a bit overboard. As as also they say, ____ happens.
Tidings
Jay
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 16, 2006, at 14:14:55
In reply to Re: Thank you. G.G » Gabbix2, posted by yxibow on March 16, 2006, at 13:34:43
but sometimes I think things go a bit overboard. As as also they say, ____ happens.
>I agree fully!
Posted by wildcard11 on March 16, 2006, at 14:42:44
In reply to Why did ED_UK Get Blocked?, posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2006, at 22:16:31
to me... we can say sh*t, f*ck, *ss, etc. and the little symbol makes it okay but you say UNKIND and get blocked?????! maybe it should say u*kind...
i admit it must be tough determining PBC's, blocks, etc. but in all the time i have been here, I have NEVER read a negative post from Ed so i think a PBS or PBC would have been way more warranted. just my 2 cents...
Posted by Declan on March 16, 2006, at 15:56:21
In reply to mystery, posted by wildcard11 on March 16, 2006, at 14:42:44
Why cannot the meaning of the word be considered in the rules? Unkind is a pretty civil description, as we all seem to agree. I can't seem to remember these distinctions, the ones Gabbi was talking about above. I'd have to write them out 50 times.
Declan
Posted by Gabbix2 on March 16, 2006, at 16:04:37
In reply to mystery, posted by wildcard11 on March 16, 2006, at 14:42:44
You crack me up!
Hope you're doing well.
Oh I want to write to you about the girl baby thing..
Well, I will write to you!
Posted by 10derHeart on March 16, 2006, at 16:28:36
In reply to mystery, posted by wildcard11 on March 16, 2006, at 14:42:44
>>I have NEVER read a negative post from Ed
That being so, I still think the thing is what he said there and then on that thread, on that day/time that determined appropriate admin action, not his general 'behavior' or 'attitude' here.... as it is with anyone...
>>..so i think a PBS or PBC would have been way more warranted. just my 2 cents...
But Ed *did* get a PBC just before for a similar comment about a post. So, the 2nd *offense* brought on the block. Which is how it works, no?
I wish Ed hadn't been blocked. I wish no one ever got blocked. But I didn't see any problem with this sequence of events or the decision.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2006, at 17:08:23
In reply to Re: mystery » wildcard11, posted by 10derHeart on March 16, 2006, at 16:28:36
> >>I have NEVER read a negative post from Ed
I'm not sure I have until recently, either. I wondered about what might be going on, and I babblemailed him about the situation, although I never received a reply.
>
> I wish Ed hadn't been blocked. I wish no one ever got blocked. But I didn't see any problem with this sequence of events or the decision.I wish that, too. And I agree with the decision as well. Thanks for posting this.
gg
>
>
Posted by wildcard11 on March 16, 2006, at 18:33:00
In reply to Re: mystery » wildcard11, posted by 10derHeart on March 16, 2006, at 16:28:36
i didn't see the previous PBC but the word *unkind*??? that's just not IMO enough to warrant a block...
Posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2006, at 18:52:48
In reply to Re: mystery » 10derHeart, posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2006, at 17:08:23
GG Since Ed went to work he's working six days a week and where I used to get an E-mail or a babblemail everyday now I'm glad to get one once a week. I think he's an amazing person to leave so early in the morning take trains work in different pharmacies each day and still find the time to try and help the others here. And culture is something to think about too. As I think the British seem to use different phrases than we do. I not going to argue the block just that he knows so much about meds that with all the recent discussion on MAOI's someone could be seriously harmed without his extensive research and knowledge. Not to say that there are so many wonderful med experts on the meds board. But they each have their own specialty so to speak. I think this is civil isn't it? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jakeman on March 16, 2006, at 20:49:30
In reply to Re: Why did ED_UK Get Blocked? » Jakeman, posted by Gabbix2 on March 15, 2006, at 22:35:43
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Gabbix. I've gotten tired of debating about the rules and what is civil or not. I have some anger, but I feel I can't express it on this forum.
warm regard, Jake
Posted by gardenergirl on March 16, 2006, at 21:24:24
In reply to Re: mystery » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2006, at 18:52:48
I think quite highly of Ed, too. It's not about whether I respect a poster, how much they do or do not contribute, or the perceived value of their contributions.
Would it really be fair and consistent to factor those issues in when reviewing a post for civility? And how could you measure it so that all of the deputies and Dr. Bob might come to the same decision?
And yes, people from different cultures vary in the way they express things. But we are asked to express ourselves in a certain manner here. There are many resources here for understanding what's expected--the FAQ, posts on admin., looking at examples of what's been PBC'd before... We can also ask questions.
>I not going to argue the block just that he knows so much about meds that with all the recent discussion on MAOI's someone could be seriously harmed without his extensive research and knowledge.
I would feel a terrible burden of responsibility if someone were to say that about me. And I believe posters here in search of information should add what they get here to what they learn from other sources. I don't think Babble should be their only source of information. Nor should one poster be the sole source that one uses for info. I guess I'm saying that if someone were "harmed" by Ed's absence, I'm not sure I'd agree with that interpretation.
>I think this is civil isn't it? Fondly, Phillipa
If you mean your post, it seems so to me, but I read it as a poster, not as a deputy. I don't have my deputy hat on this evening.
gg
Posted by agent858 on March 16, 2006, at 21:34:57
In reply to Re: Thank you. G.G » yxibow, posted by Gabbix2 on March 16, 2006, at 14:14:55
:-(
(((((ed))))
miss you
:-(
Posted by 10derHeart on March 16, 2006, at 22:21:44
In reply to Re: mystery » 10derHeart, posted by wildcard11 on March 16, 2006, at 18:33:00
> i didn't see the previous PBC but the word *unkind*??? that's just not IMO enough to warrant a block...
My read on that is that *any* negative description of a poster or their post, happening after a PBC for the same thing, will result in a block. It just happened to be the word unkind in this case.
As far as the word, I think I see where you're coming from, and I do respect your opinion. Maybe it's that 'unkind' as a word used to protest, complain about or describe a post is pretty 'gentle' as those sorts of words go? But I see the trouble being that posters, being the unique human beings that we are, will often view a word and react to it quite differently. For me personally, kindness is way up there on *my* list, and if forced to choose (thankfully at Babble I'm not) I'd rather have someone refer to a post of mine as stupid, irritating, illogical, silly, off topic, confusing, unhelpful...and a bunch of other things *before* unkind.
I dunno. That's me. Merriam-Webster says:
UNKIND: 2 : lacking in kindness or sympathy : HARSH, CRUEL
--------------------------:-( I'm not presuming to know what ed meant, it's just that some *would* really feel hurt by that word, and if it's allowed to stand, the purpose of civility is defeated as the two posters (may) hurt one another's feelings with more descriptions...and round we go. And I arrive back at the civility rules, to include not characterizing a post we are upset by with *any* negative word, but speaking very personally of how we feel.
Sorry to go on so. I'm done now. Peace - 10der
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