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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 43 to 67 of 67. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on March 7, 2005, at 1:45:00
In reply to Re: Then I'm missing something, posted by alexandra_k on March 7, 2005, at 0:07:36
Somewhere that could be kept safe (well, as safe as possible) for people in a fragile state.
Posted by cubic_me on March 7, 2005, at 5:25:38
In reply to Re: immediate concerns, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2005, at 14:49:36
>> I think that if the system of people being able to notify ISP providers was in place, I would hardly talk at all on these boards for fear of the police knocking on my door.
>>
>>cubic_me>What about me already being able to notify your ISP?
I think I was more saying that if any one (or two) people could cause the ISP to be contacted, I would feel much more vulnerable to it than if just you (Dr. Bob) had the authority to do it, as you, I am presuming, have had more training in assessing risk than many of the posters here.
>If you aren't really suicidal, you can just say so, and that would be nice for everyone to know...
If I only have ideation, I am always sure to put that - one of my pathologies is that I don't like to worry people! However someone could use this in a manipulative way, by saying for example 'I think I'm going to kill myself tonight, so just incase I do I want to say goodbye and thanks to x, x and z etc, but actually I'm pretty sure that this is ideation and I'm not going to do it'. In any case they have managed to say their intent and their goodbyes, without having the ISP contacted.
Posted by cubic_me on March 7, 2005, at 5:57:18
In reply to Re: immediate concerns » Dr. Bob, posted by cubic_me on March 7, 2005, at 5:25:38
I would certainly prefer someone to come here and say what they are about to do (or have done) than leave them completely alone in those awful feelings. Alex suggested that people would call 911 if they weren't allowed to post here, but many people's reason for posting here rather than anything else is that it is anonymous. I have never even thought about calling anyone IRL when I have been in that position - sometimes you are so confused you want someone here to suggest it to you, so that you know it is a valid option.
I think that trigger warnings should be mandatory on such posts, however. It is important that other posters/readers of the boards can protect themselves if they feel vulnerable.
Posted by Shame on March 7, 2005, at 9:37:37
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2005, at 9:28:17
Maybe I am alone here, but if someone is SERIOUS about bowing out, they do it. No questions, no cry for help. Cry-for-help type attempts are usually advertised somewhat more broadly than an anonymous message on an internet message board.Then there is the issue of how to tell if someone is suicidal over the net. Are we talking about an ourtight decleration, or a pattern of behavior?
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 9:52:36
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help, posted by Shame on March 7, 2005, at 9:37:37
I think you're underestimating the importance Babble plays in many people's lives, myself included.
I don't really think of Babble as being anonymous at all. People may know me as Dinah, not by my real name, but a fair number of people here know me very well indeed.
And I'm not sure you're right about not crying for help first. At the very least, physical cries for help can often lead to damage.
Posted by Shame on March 7, 2005, at 10:05:28
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help » Shame, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 9:52:36
Well, I am new here and don't have a good feel for who is here, and what they are all about. I just know that when I was serious about taking my life, I certainly didn't share it with anyone, even my best friend of 25 years. Its when I get moody that people might think that I am in danger of hurting myself, when in reality I'm just coping with things. Suicide is somewhere WAY past that.
Posted by Broken on March 7, 2005, at 11:05:59
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help, posted by Shame on March 7, 2005, at 10:05:28
No offense intended by this post. It's a delicate issue, and I am more like a bull in a china shop.
However, to put it bluntly, if I were to the point of commiting suicide, and yes, I have attempted it before, then what is or is not "appropriate" to post on this or any other board would not concern me in the least.
When I made the attempt, I personally was being selfish to begin with. Scaring or upsetting someone else was not a concern. I will say this. I made no calls for help nor did I say any goodbyes, I was overwhelmed and just did it. Luckily, my girlfriend at the time did check on me, and that saved me.
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2005, at 15:50:09
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help, posted by Broken on March 7, 2005, at 11:05:59
It's interesting to note that there are differences in how men and women address suicide. Men have a tendency to use violent methods ie gun, while women are quite apt to overdose. Men are also more private, and not as willing to talk about feelings. That makes me wonder if when a man posts a suicide threat is he more apt to carry it out? But, the one's I've seen on PBabble have been from men. The only reason I've Posted this is that this was my experience when I worked in psych. I agree fully that a suicidal person does not care about others if they are serious about harming themselves. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 17:50:38
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help, posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2005, at 15:50:09
I've asked my husband to contact a particular Babbler if anything at all should happen to me. Just as he'll probably contact IRL friends. Should I ask her not to post anything?
I'm not just talking suicide here. I'm talking anything at all. Internet friends are real friends too.
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 18:03:34
In reply to Re: Then I'm missing something » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on March 7, 2005, at 0:01:14
Posted by cubic_me on March 8, 2005, at 2:47:19
In reply to Question, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 17:50:38
I've asked my boyfriend to do that too. I have set up an email address that lists all the close contacts I have online, just incase.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 8, 2005, at 14:39:59
In reply to Question, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 17:50:38
What do you mean "Should I ask her not to post anything?" Do you mean not inform us at all?
If course I'd want to know. And where to send flowers or your favorite charity. And where to show up for any memorial .....
But of course I'd want to find out that information many, many years from now.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2005, at 15:30:36
In reply to Question, posted by Dinah on March 7, 2005, at 17:50:38
Of course I'd want to know.
I am just the kind of person that doesn't much like to hear of others making a will or whatever.
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2005, at 16:52:47
In reply to Re: Question, posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2005, at 15:30:36
The Thread is getting away from the original theme. Can we get back on Track? So, what should we do if someone is expressing suicidal ideation or intent on the Board? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2005, at 17:20:55
In reply to Re: Question, posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2005, at 16:52:47
Actually, this was the original track:
>I've been wondering about trying to enable concerned posters to notify a suicidal poster's Internet service provider. So it wouldn't depend so much on my availability. It would of course need to be set up carefully. Information that identified the suicidal poster wouldn't be disclosed to the concerned posters, for example. What do you think? Would that be overwhelming?
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2005, at 17:24:09
In reply to Re: Question » Phillipa, posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2005, at 17:20:55
Yeah Alexandra! Thanks. It just seemed like the Thread was headed somewhere else. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2005, at 17:49:09
In reply to Re: possibly being able to do more to help, posted by Shame on March 7, 2005, at 9:37:37
> BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO
> and also
> BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN DO IRL
>
> alexandra_k> Internet friends are real friends too.
>
> DinahRight, I guess one way to see it is that it would make this more like RL...
--
> if any one (or two) people could cause the ISP to be contacted, I would feel much more vulnerable to it than if just you (Dr. Bob) had the authority to do it
What if it couldn't just be any two? Only certain posters could be authorized, or more than two could be required...
> > If you aren't really suicidal, you can just say so, and that would be nice for everyone to know...
>
> someone could use this in a manipulative way, by saying for example 'I think I'm going to kill myself tonight, so just incase I do I want to say goodbye and thanks to x, x and z etc, but actually I'm pretty sure that this is ideation and I'm not going to do it'. In any case they have managed to say their intent and their goodbyes, without having the ISP contacted.
>
> cubic_meThat's an interesting scenario, might a notification in fact be justifiable in that case?
--
> if someone is SERIOUS about bowing out, they do it. No questions, no cry for help. Cry-for-help type attempts are usually advertised somewhat more broadly than an anonymous message on an internet message board.
>
> ShameMaybe so, but what if a particular poster isn't quite that serious and doesn't cry as loudly?
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2005, at 17:58:53
In reply to Re: making Internet friends more like real friends, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2005, at 17:49:09
There's only so much anyone can do. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 2:09:22
In reply to Re: making Internet friends more like real friends, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2005, at 17:49:09
> Right, I guess one way to see it is that it would make this more like RL...
Yeah. And that is a mixed blessing...
Posted by sleepygirl on January 10, 2006, at 2:23:53
In reply to I welcome my block Dr Bob if you choose to., posted by Nickengland on January 9, 2006, at 7:55:21
Dr. Bob you posted a link to the posting excerpt below recently. I'm curious about how this might be implemented. I can imagine it could be problematic in some ways, but I'm still curious. Can you tell us what might be possible with regard to the idea posted below??
>>I've been wondering about trying to enable concerned posters to notify a suicidal poster's Internet service provider. So it wouldn't depend so much on my availability. It would of course need to be set up carefully. Information that identified the suicidal poster wouldn't be disclosed to the concerned posters, for example. What do you think? Would that be overwhelming?
Posted by muffled on January 10, 2006, at 2:23:54
In reply to Dr. Bob - about informing ISP's, posted by sleepygirl on January 9, 2006, at 14:19:31
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2006, at 2:32:02
In reply to Dr. Bob - about informing ISP's, posted by sleepygirl on January 9, 2006, at 14:19:31
> I'm curious about how this might be implemented. I can imagine it could be problematic in some ways, but I'm still curious. Can you tell us what might be possible
In terms of what might be possible, maybe certain posters could be authorized to click a button, and if enough of them did, then the server would try to identify the ISP and send it an email?
See also the previous discussion...
Bob
Posted by Nickengland on January 10, 2006, at 10:36:12
In reply to Re: informing ISP's, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2006, at 2:32:02
Hello Dr. Bob,
>In terms of what might be possible, maybe certain posters could be authorized to click a button, and if enough of them did, then the server would try to identify the ISP and send it an email?
I think thats a good idea somewhere along the lines...
I think it could also be drawn up somewhere (within the rules) that this place cannot substitute as a real life crisis centre/place/forum for real life suicidal support. What I mean by that is, is that in real life there are crisis phone numbers you can call, mental health crisis teams etc....
Babble can't exactly come under the same level of support and medical help, as the majority of us have at some stage faced these difficulties and are not fully trained to deal with such issues..
So, if you can be blocked, say for example not using the astric * rules with mild swear words.... the warning/rules state that feature clearly..
If you was to repeatly use the message boards for a substitue for a 'real life' crisis centre -with regards to suicidal messages, similar to the nature that would be put forward to a real life crisis team / phone line etc.
Then the block (so to speak) could come when the ISP is possibly notified...or, as i've seen previously, the conclusion has been made that there is joking about death...and so the guidelines are already in place to deal with that issue.
The fine line, between the two maybe hard to reach, but on the other hand at least there will be a system in place to prevent either happening..and with a warning issued first, perhaps that would be enough to prevent either feature being misused. If it did continue, the conclusion is made and following with regards to ISP notification etc takes effect.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Racer on January 22, 2006, at 21:15:02
In reply to Re: informing ISP's, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2006, at 2:32:02
I think the idea of creating a way to allow the deputies to alert the ISP, with maybe a junior deputy or two if needed, is a good idea.
What worries me, though, is too many people having that access. I think you may remember a situation a couple of years ago now when someone here might have used that against me, just because she was angry with me. And, when such a thing happens, the police MUST take you in, no matter how much you don't want to go. I did get an apology once, but I still had to go and hang out for hours before a doctor was willing to say, "Yeah, uh huh, guess you don't need tobe here..." So, as long as it's not easy to get that power, I'm all for it. Deputies, though, not everyone.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 25, 2006, at 12:24:51
In reply to Re: informing ISP's » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on January 22, 2006, at 21:15:02
uh yeah.....here's where I thought it might be really tricky
who'd do it?, it's a lot of 'authority', you need to be around maybe - cause what if you aren't and you miss something, etc., how many people is enough people to feel there is a problem? is it beyond the limits of what this site can offer?(controversial I'm sure, but people will do what they will with their own lives) and where does responsibility lie?
This is the end of the thread.
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