![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jakeman on November 7, 2005, at 19:13:23
Dr. Bob,
I understand the block regarding my post of 10-25-05 "Let's face the facts." I could have worded my statements better, maybe using words such as "suspected" or "alleged."
My post came from my worry about what I feel is an increased acceptance of unethical behavior by leaders who we have entrusted to uphold our society's laws. Sometimes I just feel a sense of outrage, and that came out in my post.
Then there's Maynerd's post of 11-2-05 "Radical Solution." I've read through this poem several time and can't find the uncivility.
Should I conclude that uncivility also includes controversial?
Lately I've been reading James Hillmans book "A Terrible Love of War" and I was going to quote him from the book or interviews in order discuss the causes of war and it's origins in the human psyche (in Jungian terms, agression-violence is part of our shadow).
But Hillman is controversial to some and so I'm not sure anymore how to make a PBC-proof post, especially to the politics board. Any comments appreciated.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2005, at 23:38:49
In reply to Need clarification, please, posted by Jakeman on November 7, 2005, at 19:13:23
> I could have worded my statements better, maybe using words such as "suspected" or "alleged."
Maybe... Would you feel someone was being sensitive to your feelings if they referred to someone you voted for as a suspected criminal?
> My post came from my worry about what I feel is an increased acceptance of unethical behavior by leaders who we have entrusted to uphold our society's laws.
Criticism tends to be more civil if it's constructive, for example, about what they might do better rather than what they did wrong.
What kind of behavior do you think they should insist on?
> Sometimes I just feel a sense of outrage, and that came out in my post.
I-statements like that are fine! :-)
> Should I conclude that uncivility also includes controversial?
Controversial statements aren't necessarily uncivil, but may be more likely to be...
> Lately I've been reading James Hillmans book "A Terrible Love of War" and I was going to quote him from the book or interviews in order discuss the causes of war and it's origins in the human psyche (in Jungian terms, agression-violence is part of our shadow).
>
> But Hillman is controversial to some and so I'm not sure anymore how to make a PBC-proof post, especially to the politics board. Any comments appreciated.What if you asked over there if someone would be willing to preview it by babblemail first?
Thanks for trying to adapt to the guidelines here,
Bob
Posted by Declan on November 8, 2005, at 12:22:49
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post, posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2005, at 23:38:49
Hello Jake, how nice to see you back. I think it's trying to square the circle to have civility when the divisions between people seem so fundamental and bitter. And that's just between people in the west. I might be wrong, but I can't recall a poster coming from outside the US sphere of influence (ie axis of evil+former USSR+PRC+Africa). Maybe though the most bitter divisions are closest to the centre, between Americans? Not after natural disasters so much I suppose.
Declan
Posted by Jakeman on November 8, 2005, at 18:08:01
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post, posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2005, at 23:38:49
> > I could have worded my statements better, maybe using words such as "suspected" or "alleged."
>
> Maybe... Would you feel someone was being sensitive to your feelings if they referred to someone you voted for as a suspected criminal?I see your point in regard to Bush, Cheney, and Rice. My error. But if a leader does get indicted for a crime (such as Cheny's chief of staff Libby) then I think it's not uncivil or insensitive to refer to them as a suspected criminal.
> Criticism tends to be more civil if it's constructive, for example, about what they might do better rather than what they did wrong.
>
> What kind of behavior do you think they should insist on?I think Senator John McCain recently gave an example of we can insist on ethical behavior. He sponsored a bill making it illegal to torture prisoners. Unfortunately the bill is being opposed by the Whitehouse.
>
> What if you asked over there if someone would be willing to preview it by babblemail first?Not a bad ideal.
>
> Thanks for trying to adapt to the guidelines here,Thanks for your reply!
Posted by Jakeman on November 8, 2005, at 18:20:25
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post, posted by Declan on November 8, 2005, at 12:22:49
> Hello Jake, how nice to see you back.
Thanks!
>I think it's trying to square the circle to have civility when the divisions between people seem >so fundamental and bitter. And that's just between people in the west. I might be wrong, >but I can't recall a poster coming from outside the US sphere of influence (ie axis of >evil+former USSR+PRC+Africa). Maybe though the most bitter divisions are closest to the centre, >between Americans? Not after natural disasters so much I suppose.We are pretty divided in the US, but I don't see too much in the way of outward expressions of hostility. Maybe I read too much Henry David Thoreau when I was younger. He had the ideal that if you see injustice and don't speak out against it, then you are contributing to it. Or said another way... if you're not a part of the solution you're part of the problem.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2005, at 1:26:36
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post » Dr. Bob, posted by Jakeman on November 8, 2005, at 18:08:01
> I think it's trying to square the circle to have civility when the divisions between people seem so fundamental and bitter.
>
> DeclanCivility's especially important when divisions between people are fundamental and bitter? Now you know why civility here is non-Euclidean. :-)
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19980904
--
> I see your point in regard to Bush, Cheney, and Rice. My error. But if a leader does get indicted for a crime (such as Cheny's chief of staff Libby) then I think it's not uncivil or insensitive to refer to them as a suspected criminal.
I see your point, too. But are you saying Libby was "running the country"? :-)
> > Criticism tends to be more civil if it's constructive, for example, about what they might do better rather than what they did wrong.
> >
> > What kind of behavior do you think they should insist on?
>
> I think Senator John McCain recently gave an example of we can insist on ethical behavior. He sponsored a bill making it illegal to torture prisoners. Unfortunately the bill is being opposed by the Whitehouse.
>
> JakemanThat's a good example. But could you have said just:
> I think Senator John McCain recently gave an example of we can insist on ethical behavior. He sponsored a bill making it illegal to torture prisoners.
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on November 9, 2005, at 8:57:34
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post, posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2005, at 1:26:36
How about:
"I can't believe it is being opposed by the white house"
Posted by Jakeman on November 9, 2005, at 19:17:06
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post, posted by AuntieMel on November 9, 2005, at 8:57:34
> How about:
>
> "I can't believe it is being opposed by the white house"Yes, AM.. My verbal abilities fail me at times.
I really wanted to say something like, "I find it incomprehensible that such a bill would be opposed by the White House."
Posted by Jakeman on November 9, 2005, at 20:03:16
In reply to Re: how to make a PBC-proof post, posted by Dr. Bob on November 9, 2005, at 1:26:36
> I see your point, too. But are you saying Libby was "running the country"? :-)
>In a sense, YES. I do think that some close advisors have a role in running the country. The investigations are ongoing, but reputable news organizations (NPR, NY Times) have some documentation of Libby's role in building the argument for the war in Iraq, specifically Colin's Powell's speech before the UN.
warm regards ~Jake
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.