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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tamar on October 23, 2005, at 17:51:15
OK, I thought I'd got my head around most of the issues that lead to PBCs.
But I can't make sense of the PBC to Damos. The content of his post was entirely supportive, as usual. The point of contention seemed to be the subject line, which Damos hadn't written, since he was replying to a post. In fact, other people had also responded without changing the subject line, but Damos was the only one to get a PBC (apart from the original poster). I got the impression the PBC happened because Damos’s post survived the archive whereas the earlier replies in the thread disappeared into ‘previous periods’. (Please understand I don’t want to see more PBCs; I’d like to see fewer!)
What am I missing? It just doesn't seem sensible to me.
Tamar
I’ll try to post the link but I’m not entirely confident…
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20051021/msgs/570696.html
Posted by Damos on October 23, 2005, at 18:28:03
In reply to Very confused about PBCs, posted by Tamar on October 23, 2005, at 17:51:15
Thanks Tamar,
I think the issue is that I was the one who posted after Dr Bob's warning. So it was basically just stupid on my part. I'm okay with it. Just a pretty dumb way to get your first PBC.
Thanks for the support :-)
Posted by Tamar on October 23, 2005, at 20:09:42
In reply to Re: Very confused about PBCs » Tamar, posted by Damos on October 23, 2005, at 18:28:03
> I think the issue is that I was the one who posted after Dr Bob's warning.
Oh I see. It’s an interesting question. I don’t tend to change the subject line when I reply because I see it as the ‘property’ of the person who originally wrote it. So if I want to reply to something I leave the subject line the same because it would feel like changing the other person’s words. I’ve changed it very occasionally (in fact I did it today) but I don't do it often. I’ve always felt that the ‘Re:’ at the beginning of the subject line made it clear that it wasn’t my own words. So I guess that’s why I felt the PBC wasn’t really justified in your case.
> So it was basically just stupid on my part. I'm okay with it. Just a pretty dumb way to get your first PBC.
Hey, if I’d had any idea that I could be held responsible for someone else’s choice of words in the subject line I probably would have been too frightened to post in the first place. I definitely don’t think you were dumb. It’s a technicality that I believe is unnecessary… but if we have to take account of it, I wish it were explicitly mentioned as a hazard in the FAQ!
OK, I've finished ranting now. Time for bed!
Tamar
Posted by 10derHeart on October 23, 2005, at 21:19:38
In reply to Re: Very confused about PBCs » Damos, posted by Tamar on October 23, 2005, at 20:09:42
Yeah...I saw that thread and thought Dr. Bob was using the PBC a bit too rigidly. I think he should have perhaps explicitly stated that if anyone else posted on the thread they should/must change the subject line first.
I would have done the same as Damos without a thought...and it wouldn't have been dumb. Isn't dumb at all. Just natural at times here to not even look a the subject line when replying, unless it is blantantly uncivil, of course...
What do you say, Dr. Bob? Can you see how any innocent poster would have done the same? Could you have instead posted a *warning post,* or an *explanatory post,* instead of a PBC? I'm just thinking the connotation of a PBC (with Civility as the central focus and you obviously knowing Damos wasn't actually being uncivil) is what doesn't *fit* under these circumstances.
Once again, I find myself thinking alike with Tamar....wow, how very cool! :-)
Posted by ClearSkies on October 24, 2005, at 9:17:36
In reply to Re: Very confused about PBCs » Tamar, posted by Damos on October 23, 2005, at 18:28:03
That has happened to me too. It's a real smack on the hand!
CS
Posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2005, at 13:08:51
In reply to Re: Very confused about PBCs » Damos, posted by ClearSkies on October 24, 2005, at 9:17:36
I don't think they are supposed to be a slap... Well... I guess the context varies a bit. In this case... I think it is just to let people know that if someone does post an uncivil subject header then we should be careful not to continue it. I remember this has come up before... Something about the Ant*christ...
Posted by ClearSkies on October 24, 2005, at 14:12:01
In reply to Re: Very confused about PBCs, posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2005, at 13:08:51
> I don't think they are supposed to be a slap...
However they are meant, I was saying how it felt to me.
I understand how the PBC's work!
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 24, 2005, at 18:25:58
In reply to Re: Very confused about PBCs » Tamar, posted by 10derHeart on October 23, 2005, at 21:19:38
> What do you say, Dr. Bob? Can you see how any innocent poster would have done the same? Could you have instead posted a *warning post,* or an *explanatory post,* instead of a PBC? I'm just thinking the connotation of a PBC (with Civility as the central focus and you obviously knowing Damos wasn't actually being uncivil) is what doesn't *fit* under these circumstances.
I know, anyone could've done it. But that's what a PBC is, a warning and explanatory post. :-) And the FAQ already addresses quoting someone else...
Bob
Posted by Tamar on October 25, 2005, at 18:34:55
In reply to Re: the other person’s words, posted by Dr. Bob on October 24, 2005, at 18:25:58
> And the FAQ already addresses quoting someone else...
>
> BobInteresting. I reread the FAQ. My understanding of ‘quoting someone else’ had never extended to leaving a subject line unchanged. But I suppose I can see how it could be interpreted that way, though it isn't explicit in the FAQ.
So I have another question. If someone says something in a post that is uncivil and I reply by including the post, is that also ‘quoting someone else’ and is my post therefore uncivil?
I'm not trying to be difficult here... I'm just trying to be sure I understand what's expected...
Tamar
Posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2005, at 19:26:47
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » Dr. Bob, posted by Tamar on October 25, 2005, at 18:34:55
my understanding is that...
yes tamar.
that is the point exactly.
I've seen people warned for having quoted someone elses incivility on a few occasions now...
Posted by Tamar on October 25, 2005, at 21:14:54
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » Tamar, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2005, at 19:26:47
> my understanding is that...
>
> yes tamar.
>
> that is the point exactly.
>
> I've seen people warned for having quoted someone elses incivility on a few occasions now...Thanks Alex. That's interesting. I hadn't noticed people being warned for that. Maybe I should read more warnings!
When I reply by including posts I tend to think of it as the other person's words still hanging in the air, rather than as quotation. When I look at someone else’s words in my post (like your words above) it’s as if I’m still hearing it, rather than repeating it. Maybe because the style of writing on a message board is usually conversational rather than formal. Clearly I’m just plain nuts…
Posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2005, at 21:33:20
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » alexandra_k, posted by Tamar on October 25, 2005, at 21:14:54
> Thanks Alex. That's interesting. I hadn't noticed people being warned for that. Maybe I should read more warnings!
heh heh. yeah i read most of 'em. trying to see whether there could be an algorithm... (i think not)
> When I reply by including posts I tend to think of it as the other person's words still hanging in the air, rather than as quotation. When I look at someone else’s words in my post (like your words above) it’s as if I’m still hearing it, rather than repeating it. Maybe because the style of writing on a message board is usually conversational rather than formal. Clearly I’m just plain nuts…you aren't nuts at all. i have a similar thing. it is like i'm having a conversation. more like a spoken conversation.
but...
if its your post...
remember to asterisk the swearwords (if other peoples vaiants get through the system), and yeah, don't 'listen' to incivilities more than once
;-)
Posted by 10derHeart on October 25, 2005, at 23:48:15
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » Tamar, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2005, at 19:26:47
huh...well, I'll be darned.
I could swear...more than once when I've tried to help by warning a poster when some of their words appear uncivil to me...especially when they were quite a small part of a longer post...I've 'snipped' those words out and then explained why I thought they should be careful, just underneath....
and I take it you're saying that's a no-no...?
I think I've done it maybe 2-3 times. I'd have to search for the posts to be sure, though..
I do it to be clear. I had no clue that would technically be uncivil. Or is it okay before/until the poster actually receives a PBC?
-- 10der (beating the topic to death, I fear)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 26, 2005, at 5:09:26
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » alexandra_k, posted by 10derHeart on October 25, 2005, at 23:48:15
i dunno... i try and avoid it i guess... though i suppose i have done that myself so as to be clear, like you said.
but after someone has had a warning... probably best not to perpeptuate it...
Posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 9:04:58
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » alexandra_k, posted by 10derHeart on October 25, 2005, at 23:48:15
some of their words appear uncivil to me...especially when they were quite a small part of a longer post...I've 'snipped' those words out and then explained why I thought they should be careful, just underneath....
>
> and I take it you're saying that's a no-no...?Yeah, that’s the sort of thing that made me start thinking about the implications of the rule about quoting other people.
> I do it to be clear. I had no clue that would technically be uncivil. Or is it okay before/until the poster actually receives a PBC?
And here’s the other thing that occurred to me: if a PBC from Dr Bob or one of the deputies quotes the offending material, then *technically* the PBC is uncivil :)
Sorry, I think I’m the one beating it to death!
Tamar
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 2005, at 2:57:17
In reply to Re: the other person’s words » alexandra_k, posted by 10derHeart on October 25, 2005, at 23:48:15
> I could swear...more than once when I've tried to help by warning a poster when some of their words appear uncivil to me...especially when they were quite a small part of a longer post...I've 'snipped' those words out and then explained why I thought they should be careful, just underneath....
There are exceptions to every rule?
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2005, at 21:25:45
In reply to Re: the other person’s words, posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 2005, at 2:57:17
> There are exceptions to every rule?
Even that one?
Maybe it depends on how the rule is described...
This is the end of the thread.
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