![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 29, 2005, at 1:14:54
I'm rescinding my D.N.P to Alexandra.
I've noticed from the response to my post on Admin, that the only difference the D.N.P made is that my name is not checked off. I wish there was another option.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2005, at 5:34:35
In reply to Rescinding a D.N.P request., posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 29, 2005, at 1:14:54
How about I just ignore you then???
Posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2005, at 18:53:44
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2005, at 5:34:35
Sorry...
Look.
How about you tell me what you want me to do.
I like you Gabbi.
I'm not trying to drive you nuts on purpose.
If you want me to ignore you then just ask.
If you don't want me posting general 'responses' then just ask.I'm not sure what you want.
But...
Well...
I guess I'll just leave ya alone, ok??????
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 18:31:23
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request., posted by alexandra_k on May 29, 2005, at 18:53:44
>> How about you tell me what you want me to do.
> I like you Gabbi.Liking or disliking is not the issue.
> I'm not trying to drive you nuts on purpose.I'll take your word for it, but what did you think the essence of the D.N.P request was?
It is hardly something I take lightly, or something I do to punish.I explained that I was exhausted by the seemingly constant commentary, correction, and advice giving on my posts, the point of which I am rarely ever able to make clear to you. Often the advice has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Did you think that by not checking my name off you would have a sudden understanding of what I was saying? Again, my point was misunderstood, critiqued, and my post was a direct reply to Dr. Bob! How did you think that would not exacerbate an already tense situation?
I feel suffocated, as if I can't take a breath without your asessment.
I rescinded the DNP because it seemed both funny and ridiculous to have you find ways to continue commenting "around" me.I am trying genuinely to understand your posting manner, however I am frequently intensely frustrated by it, as I would no sooner presume someone needed my particular advice, then I would tell a complete stranger how they should dress, or correct the spelling errors on your posts. Sure I may tell someone what I like or dislike doing in certain situations, but that to me, is conversation and people can take what they like from it.
Your priorities are frequently not mine. Often it's not that I have misunderstood, or not thought of something you have, I've made a different choice.
If someone is going to continually give me unasked for advice they had better
1. Be someone I've hired as a teacher
2. Be someone I've openly admired in certain areas.
3 Or, they'd better make sure they have their own closet perfectly in order.> If you want me to ignore you then just ask.
> If you don't want me posting general 'responses' then just ask.
>
> I'm not sure what you want.What I ask is that you "choose to focus" on what you want to learn, not what you think I should, or what would be good for me. I'll take responsibility for that.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 18:53:05
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 18:31:23
I think there is a difficulty in that there can be a topic of discussion. You want to say something about the topic and I want to say something about the topic.
That may well involve discussing some of the points that one of us has made on the particular topic. Especially if they are pretty good points.
If I keep talking about stuff that you say it is because I find it interesting and stimulating and it prompts me to thoughts of my own...
Yeah. I quite often do miss the point.
Sorry about that.
It isn't something that I try and do on purpose. I like to think that I am open to other peoples attempts to clarify..What I say is just my opinion.
As you noted.
I guess I tend to write in an 'authoratative' style because that is how I have been taught to write.
But I like to think that I am open to the idea that I am wrong, or have misunderstood, or whatever.If you could help me out there then I could learn something from you.
You are free to ignore me, you know.
If you don't like the way a conversation is going then stopping responding would be an effective way of getting me to drop it.I'm sorry you are feeling upset and frustrated.
But I'm not too sure what to do.
It is a little like last time...
The problem there was about our disagreement over small boards. But I'm not going to stop saying what I think about them just because someone gets upset with what I have to say. I would hope that if I got upset with what you had to say - that you wouldn't just drop the topic because I didn't like what you were saying.And that seems to be what is happening again...
I don't know what to say.
I do feel a bit like you are requesting me to ignore what you have to say on a topic... That other people (who agree with you) are allowed to comment on that and make use of it with respect to what they think. But if anyone disagrees... Well then, what?
They should just leave the whole topic alone???
I'm not sure what you want me to do.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 18:54:24
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 18:31:23
>continually give me unasked for advice
Do I really do this?????
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 19:26:21
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 18:54:24
I don't know what to say.
Its a shame.
I used to think of you as a friend.
Now I guess I'm just another person on the list of people who frustrate the hell out of you.Maybe an ignore function would be best.
Sorry things worked out this way.
No doubt I'm still missing some point or other...
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 19:37:13
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 18:53:05
>
> If I keep talking about stuff that you say it is because I find it interesting and stimulating and it prompts me to thoughts of my own...Okay that helps.
>
> What I say is just my opinion.I think what everyone says is there opinion.
> As you noted.
> I guess I tend to write in an 'authoratative' style because that is how I have been taught to write.
> But I like to think that I am open to the idea that I am wrong, or have misunderstood, or whatever.
>
> If you could help me out there then I could learn something from you.
>
> You are free to ignore me, you know.
> If you don't like the way a conversation is going then stopping responding would be an effective way of getting me to drop it.That's part of what's so draining. When I'm continually being misunderstood, and never asked for clarification before being critiqued, I feel I have to respond to make sure it doesn't look to anyone like I've said something I never would say, and round it goes again.
>
> I'm sorry you are feeling upset and frustrated.
>
> But I'm not too sure what to do.
>
> It is a little like last time...
> The problem there was about our disagreement over small boards. But I'm not going to stop saying what I think about them just because someone gets upset with what I have to say. I would hope that if I got upset with what you had to say - that you wouldn't just drop the topic because I didn't like what you were saying.No, we didn't have a problem there I think that was somone else. I had a problem when you pointed out that I was wrong in publishing an e-mail address to prove that I was being contacted when it had been said otherwise. And of course it would not be ethical but The e-mail address had been forged.
>
> And that seems to be what is happening again...That's not been the problem with me. The problem is to "me" that you rarely mention how you would like to see things, or what you focus on, you suggest what others *could do*(which can infer that they haven't given full thought to a subject before they disagreed) To me, telling people what you do is an extension of the purpose of the "I" statement.
> >continually give me unasked for advice
>
> Do I really do this?????
It feels that way to me. It's been suggested that I reword things, that I choose to focus somewhere else.. different ways of putting things. The whole "Made you feel" topic was something neither Minnie nor I were interested in discussing further. One post would be fine, but there were several. How I feel about it being suggested I "choose to focus" I wrote recently to Dinah about Dr. Bob's replyThe one which sticks in my mind most recently is when you "pointed out" on my post to Minnie how I could rephrase my sentence to:
*OR I responded to that by being offended* Which I would never say, partly because it's redundant. Where the He** did that come from? I'm fine with how I phrase things, and actually prefer to much of what I have read. I don't do it out of ignorance.
The "choosing to focus" may be okay once, but when it's suggested to me repeatedly I wonder if you think I haven't grasped the concept.
I've never ever had a problem with people disagreeing with me. In the beginning I welcomed your disagreements. However, I felt it becoming more of a lesson from you. It seems as if I don't clarify every possible thought I've had before I come to a conclusion, it's assumed I haven't had them.
I'm never asked if I had thought of something, it's indirectly suggested I have not. Maybe you don't do that purposely, that's how it comes across to me. I usually presume in the other direction, or ask.That's what I find exhausting, having to clarify what is a disagreement, and what is a lack of thought on the subject, and it hasn't seemed to work. I've tried the agree to disagree, but it seems that's not enough either, there's always one more comment, maybe the one that will change my mind? I don't know.
>
> I don't know what to say.
>
> I do feel a bit like you are requesting me to ignore what you have to say on a topic... That other people (who agree with you) are allowed to comment on that and make use of it with respect to what they think. But if anyone disagrees... Well then, what?That's one of those incorrect assumptions, and I'm not quite sure how you came to it. Do you think everyone always agrees with me? If not, why have I only asked for two DNP's? One of which was I implemented when I was feeling personally unsafe, and had nothing to do with a theoretical disagreement.
I learn much from those who disagree with me, directly or indirectly, it's the manner in which it's done. There are many examples of this on the board.
Why I'm offended and frustrated to the extent I am, I can't figure out. But I do need a break from it all right now.
>
>
>
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 20:41:24
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request., posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 19:26:21
> I don't know what to say.
>
> Its a shame.
> I used to think of you as a friend.
> Now I guess I'm just another person on the list of people who frustrate the hell out of you.
Well the DNP was an effort to try to preserve a relationship. I needed a break.Truly I have no list, very few people frustrate me. My mother. That doesn't count as a list.
I'm sure if we were having coffee it would be great.It's the posting style I have problems with.
And I'm not advising you change it. I'm saying I have problems with it. We are very much alike in some areas, and in others we are oil and water. I have difficulty understanding your intent when you write. I know the overt point, most of the time, but I get two messages from many of your posts. That in itself is nothing, If my reaction hadn't been so extreme though, I would never have requested this.
I'm still trying to think it through, to understand to the point where I really feel
that you aren't continually trying to "educate me" Just give me some time okay?
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 21:11:34
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 20:41:24
> > I don't know what to say.
> >
> > Its a shame.
> > I used to think of you as a friend.
> > Now I guess I'm just another person on the list of people who frustrate the hell out of you.This is an example of the *two messages* I recieve often from your posts.
1. You are sorry we are not friends..
2. I have an ongoing list of people who frustrate me? What was that comment meant to suggest?Far fewer people frustrate me than most people I know.
That's a rhetorical question btw.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 21:48:20
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 19:37:13
> > If I keep talking about stuff that you say it is because I find it interesting and stimulating and it prompts me to thoughts of my own...
> Okay that helps.Good :-)
It is also true.
> > What I say is just my opinion.
> I think what everyone says is there opinion.Yeah, I agree. I was just trying to let you know that I am especially aware that what *I* say is just *my* opinion.
> That's part of what's so draining. When I'm continually being misunderstood, and never asked for clarification before being critiqued, I feel I have to respond to make sure it doesn't look to anyone like I've said something I never would say, and round it goes again.
Ok. I guess I don't ask for clarification because I think I do get what you mean. It isn't until you say 'thats not what I meant' that I realise I may be wrong.
With respect to feeling like you have to respond... That is a hard one. I do understand the desire to say 'that is *not* what I meant / said...'. But... I don't know. I guess I just try to think that people who know me well wouldn't jump to negative conclusions about me. People who do jump to negative conclusions about me will go on their merry way anyhow... And what you did *actually* say is right there if people want to check the original. And so I try not to let it get to me and feel pressured to respond or to worry too much about how other people will take it if I don't respond. But that is much easier said than done... And I'm sorry that you feel put in that position. Because it isn't nice. I know I've felt like that on occasion too.
> No, we didn't have a problem there I think that was somone else.
Yes, you are right. It was someone else. Sorry about that - I remember what it was about now.
> That's not been the problem with me. The problem is to "me" that you rarely mention how you would like to see things, or what you focus on,
Yeah. On a couple of occasions when I have done this posters have responded with 'but that is *you* what does that have to do with *me*?'. So I don't know how to put it... I don't know how to say it...
>you suggest what others *could do*(which can infer that they haven't given full thought to a subject before they disagreed) To me, telling people what you do is an extension of the purpose of the "I" statement.
I just mean it is something that people (me included) *could* do. Just considering options, alternatives. Trying to expand the possibilities rather than having people feel like they are backed into a corner and have no option but to feel bad.
That was the way I saw it. That people felt backed into a corner and they had no option but to feel bad. Maybe I misunderstood?????
> It feels that way to me. It's been suggested that I reword things, that I choose to focus somewhere else.. different ways of putting things. The whole "Made you feel" topic was something neither Minnie nor I were interested in discussing further. One post would be fine, but there were several.
But you guys kept responding... So I thought that meant that we were having a conversation...
> The one which sticks in my mind most recently is when you "pointed out" on my post to Minnie how I could rephrase my sentence to:
> *OR I responded to that by being offended* Which I would never say, partly because it's redundant.I was just trying to be clear on the difference between:
1) That is offensive.
2) Typically people would respond to that by taking offence
3) I respond to that by taking offense.
Sorry if it seems to be a picky distinction...
It is relevant to my thesis.
When you have to write thousands of words on something or other picky distinctions that can be talked about for a couple of thousand words suddenly seem very IMPORTANT.
I am interested in the logic of those claims...>Where the He** did that come from?
So... Thats where that came from. There are differences between 1), 2), and 3). I was worried about keeping the distinction between 2) and 3).
I was worried about my thesis Gabbi.
You were getting me thinking about that...But sometimes I lose the woods when I'm too worried about one particular leaf...
> The "choosing to focus" may be okay once, but when it's suggested to me repeatedly I wonder if you think I haven't grasped the concept.
Well...
To be honest...
I like to think *nobody* or *almost nobody* gets it because then it leaves me with something original to say... Or at least something that may be informative for most people (assuming they can understand what I'm getting at and come to agree)>In the beginning I welcomed your disagreements. However, I felt it becoming more of a lesson from you.
Well... I also like to think that I will admit to being wrong / mistaken / misguided. I learn lessons from you Gabbi. Thats kind of how I see life... One big lesson. A lesson on the way things are - at best. If not that then a lesson on the way things seem to be to the person who is writing.
I don't know what to say.
> I'm never asked if I had thought of something, it's indirectly suggested I have not.
I don't think I do that on purpose...
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 21:52:55
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 20:41:24
> Truly I have no list, very few people frustrate me. My mother. That doesn't count as a list.
No. I was just thinking of one particular poster who I know you find frustrating. I thought if you added me then that would be a list...
> I'm sure if we were having coffee it would be great.
:-)
> We are very much alike in some areas, and in others we are oil and water.:-)
Maybe we are too much alike????
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 21:56:00
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 21:11:34
> This is an example of the *two messages* I recieve often from your posts.
> 1. You are sorry we are not friends..yeah. I thought you didn't consider me a friend anymore. I felt sorry / sad about that.
> 2. I have an ongoing list of people who frustrate me? What was that comment meant to suggest?
Oh. No. I just had one poster in mind.
One poster I know who you find annoying.
I was just sort of mentally comparing myself to that poster. Thinking 'is my posting style like that???'.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 22:01:50
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 20:41:24
A suggestion:
If you direct a post to me with PBC in the subject header I'll take it as 'please be careful with me'.
And I'll try and do that.
Ok?
I have been thinking....
I wonder if this has a lot to do with me getting caught up in the process of argument (where I fairly much abstract away from the poster)
And forget to validate.
Thats what I wondered may have gone wrong between us before.
That I don't validate enough.
That isn't a comment on you - its a comment on me and my posting style.That people are here for support and that is one thing that I can do to be more supportive. Validate more. It is also a way of taking time to check that my understanding is right. It is also a way of helping you to feel like I am hearing you or at least that I am trying to hear you.
I need loads of validation.
Especially when I am struggling to articulate something.
Or when I feel fragile.
Or who knows why sometimes...
Thats why I came to hate and detest CBT
Because it was so very invalidating I just felt mad and frustrated.I wonder if that is it???????
That was what I meant about maybe we are too much alike.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm just raving...
How about I stop talking about it and try and do it and we'll just see how things go.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 22:20:22
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 21:52:55
> > Truly I have no list, very few people frustrate me. My mother. That doesn't count as a list.
>
> No. I was just thinking of one particular poster who I know you find frustrating. I thought if you added me then that would be a list...Ah :) Okay. but its not the same type of situation at all, which is why I pointed out on my request that I was sorry "for me too" Not even comparable, even before the personal safety issue.
>
> > I'm sure if we were having coffee it would be great.
>
> :-)
>
> > We are very much alike in some areas, and in others we are oil and water.
>
> :-)
> Maybe we are too much alike????Yeah, I've thought about that. I think for lack of a better term, you're very left brained, and I'm very right brained, or something, and though we have similar ethics, and passions, the bridge can be very difficult to cross.
I think the Please Be careful is a terrific Idea.
Thanks for that.
I know you are vulnerable, I know you hurt easily. That's why this was such a difficult decision. It's hard for me to mesh that with your posts sometimes, butI know it's true.
Okay.
Here we go..
>
>
>
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 31, 2005, at 4:57:45
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request., posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 22:01:50
I thought I'd already said this :) I think it's extremely important. Well, not so much directly positive comments, but it felt to me like the only time I was spoken too, was when I posted something you felt opposed to. It really is fairly much the only time we've had any communication, for a long time.
There was really nothing with which I could temper the other feelings I was having.
So rather than laugh, and think "Okay, it's time for Alex to show up and argue with me" it was "I feel like I can't say anything.."
Posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2005, at 5:04:17
In reply to about the validation » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 31, 2005, at 4:57:45
Gabbi,
You expressed that very well. :) And I admire the way you continue to explore and clarify.gg
Posted by Minnie-Haha on May 31, 2005, at 10:26:57
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 30, 2005, at 19:37:13
> ... I learn much from those who disagree with me, directly or indirectly, it's the manner in which it's done...
I appreciate that you and I were able to disagree in a couple of recent threads, work through it, and come out feeling that we knew each other a little better when we were done. It's how healthy relationships get built and it's so satisfying when it happens... especially on the Internet, where you're only dealing with another person's writing, and nothing more.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 31, 2005, at 14:17:13
In reply to Re: about the validation » Gabbi-x-2, posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2005, at 5:04:17
> Gabbi,
> You expressed that very well. :) And I admire the way you continue to explore and clarify.
>
> ggThanks GG, so very much. I do try to continually explore why I'm feeling the way I do before I react, and as anyone who does it even when it gets tricky knows, it's not easy. It felt really good to have that acknowledged.
(Sometimes though, I'd like to think about it so little I could feel free to punch a stop sign in public though.)
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 31, 2005, at 14:40:28
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by Minnie-Haha on May 31, 2005, at 10:26:57
> > ... I learn much from those who disagree with me, directly or indirectly, it's the manner in which it's done...
>
> I appreciate that you and I were able to disagree in a couple of recent threads, work through it, and come out feeling that we knew each other a little better when we were done. It's how healthy relationships get built and it's so satisfying when it happens... especially on the Internet, where you're only dealing with another person's writing, and nothing more.Yer A peach! Where have I heard that before?
Thanks so much for the acknowledgement. I'm glad it happened to. Actually, one of my other favorite on-line people I got to know through a disagreement that in itself is just not a . Disagreeing in itself is not a problem, and often positive. I do get annoyed when I feel the disagreed upon point is sneaking it's way into every other conversation though, waiting for me to acknowledge that I've seen the light.
(Hi MOM)
Posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2005, at 15:43:55
In reply to Re: about the validation » gardenergirl, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 31, 2005, at 14:17:13
Any time... :)
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2005, at 15:44:57
In reply to Re: Rescinding a D.N.P request., posted by alexandra_k on May 30, 2005, at 22:01:50
Hi,
Just wanted to shoot some validation your way, too. You're a persistent one. You hang in when things get tense, which is very hard for me to do. Good for you!gg
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 16:09:41
In reply to about the validation » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 31, 2005, at 4:57:45
> I thought I'd already said this :)
Yes. I believe you have. I can be a bit slow sometimes...
>I think it's extremely important.
Yeah, me to.
>Well, not so much directly positive comments, but it felt to me like the only time I was spoken too, was when I posted something you felt opposed to. It really is fairly much the only time we've had any communication, for a long time.
Yeah. I had noticed that too. I often wondered how you were doing and stuff... We just never seemed to be on the same 'silly' thread..
> There was really nothing with which I could temper the other feelings I was having.
> So rather than laugh, and think "Okay, it's time for Alex to show up and argue with me" it was "I feel like I can't say anything.."Yeah.
I'm sorry :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 16:12:27
In reply to And now some for alex » alexandra_k, posted by gardenergirl on May 31, 2005, at 15:44:57
> Just wanted to shoot some validation your way, too.
:-)
>You're a persistent one. You hang in when things get tense, which is very hard for me to do. Good for you!
:-)
And you are terrific because you usually manage to prevent things from getting tense in the first place.
:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 16:12:57
In reply to Re: And now some for gg » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on May 31, 2005, at 16:12:27
Going once...
Going twice...
Go forward in thread:
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