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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2004, at 19:48:44
Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting that you determine the acceptability or not of the following in relation to the guidlines of the forum.
The poster writes,[...Make sure that it is NOT an Orthodox synagogue...], and [...Orthodox men just have a hard time with sexual attraction and can't focus...]and,[...it is a very clever devise that Rabbi's instituted...]
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20041120/msgs/430383.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:57
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung-hrdtmwtsxulatrct, posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2004, at 19:48:44
> I am requesting that you determine the acceptability or not of the following in relation to the guidlines of the forum...
This one I can't decide about:
> They say that women distract them from their prayer. I translate it as that Orthodox men just have a hard time with sexual attraction and can't focus if that is going on at the same time.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20041120/msgs/430383.htmlDoes anyone else have any comments?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 17, 2004, at 7:43:41
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:57
Dr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...can't decide...] and, [...does anyone else have any comments...?].
The poster wrote,[...Orthodox men have a hard time with sexual attraction...]
Does this not fall in the guidline here of {..jumping to a conclusion about others?..]. And could the statement also fall in the guidline to [..not put down or accuse others...]?
If it does not, then what is your thinking that the statement is different from other statements here that have been determined to [...jump...put down...]?
Could not also the statement have the potential IMO to arrouse ill-will to Orthodox jewish men?
I know of many Orthodox Jewish men. And I know of many Orthodox Jewish women. I am also a jew and when I read the statement in question I feel accused and put down. I was in an Orthodox jewish service recently for a deceased relative. There was a separation of men and women in the service.One Rabbi asked me to be in the service and we read from the Psalms about the Kingdom of God in relation to the deceased. We stood and faced a wall and focused on what we were reciteing in the verses. I feel accused and put down by the statement in question when I read it because I did not have[...a hard time with sexual attraction and can't focus...].
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 17, 2004, at 10:29:22
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung-hrdtmwtsxulatrct, posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2004, at 19:48:44
> Dr. Hsiung,
> I am requesting that you determine the acceptability or not of the following in relation to the guidlines of the forum.
> The poster writes,[...Make sure that it is NOT an Orthodox synagogue...], and [...Orthodox men just have a hard time with sexual attraction and can't focus...]and,[...it is a very clever devise that Rabbi's instituted...]
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20041120/msgs/430383.html
Dr. Hsiung,
You wrote, [...I'm not sure...anyone else have an idea...?].
You then cited only part of the request for a determination that I had as written above. Is there a reason why the other parts in my request were not cited? If so, could you write the reason for such? If you could , then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 15:03:04
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:57
While I think that no harm was intended, I also think that it is unlikely that an entire group of people would have greater than average problems with sexual attraction.
Lou, I don't know enough about orthodox Judaism to understand the reasoning behind the separation of the sexes. But from what I do know of orthodox Judaism, I'm sure there is a historical biblical reason for it, and probably an interesting tradition. Possibly some writings from the scholars. The best way to counteract stereotypes is to provide the truth, don't you think? If you have an understanding of the history or biblical authority of this tradition, perhaps you could post it on Faith as a counterpoint? I find the Orthodox tradition a beautiful one, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time with an Orthodox rabbi at a series of lectures. I think the topic was medical ethics, and he had a wonderful grasp of the science of the topic and of the traditions held by his faith. He was a real mythbuster himself. He was funny and smart and very in touch with the modern world, and very secure in the choices he has made.
Maybe I'll look it up in Ask the Rabbi.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 17, 2004, at 15:29:36
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 15:03:04
Dinah,
You wrote,[...separation of men and women...historical... reason...].
The separation of men and women is in relation to the place of worship here. The ancient Israelites believe that this is what God wants to be done as written in the Talmud and passed on to now.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 16:26:12
In reply to Lou's reply to Dinah-septal » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on December 17, 2004, at 15:29:36
I thought that was probably it. Do you have some citations to the Talmud or to the interpretations of the Talmud? I know that not everyone understands wanting to literally follow the word of God, and that some people find it legalistic rather than the beautiful expression of love that I find it to be. But perhaps we could explain it to others? Not to convince them to agree, of course. But to show an alternate way of understanding. When I have a chance (probably not today) I'll see if I can find anything on it by my favorite rabbi writers.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 18, 2004, at 0:17:13
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:57
Dr Bob, I do have a comment I do not think the poster meant malice at all but I do think that was was uncivil by what I understand your guidelines to be. It's no different from saying a certain race likes big booty more because their moms all have big booty and they sing about it. It is just a qualifier after a sweeping generalization.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 18, 2004, at 0:22:41
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 15:03:04
Dinah thats the word I was looking for "stereotypes" thank you
Posted by MKB on December 18, 2004, at 9:54:48
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:57
One thing I do know is that Orthodox men will not touch any woman outside their family. They will not even shake hands with them because they are concerned the woman may be "unclean" (in their menstrual cycle). I know this from personal experience in working with Orthodox Jews. Isn't it in the Talmud that Orthodox men are told to thank God they were not born a woman or a slave?
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 19, 2004, at 20:34:36
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2004, at 3:05:57
> > They say that women distract them from their prayer.
So even the above is an issue? Thanks for the input,
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2004, at 9:19:32
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 19, 2004, at 20:34:36
Dr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...thanks for the input...].
Are you saying that your statement is your determination as to the acceptability or not in relation to the guidlines of the forum in relation to my request for that determination? If so, what does,[...thank you for your input...] mean in regards to that?
If you could clarify this, then I could have the opportunuty to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 7, 2012, at 16:09:24
In reply to Lou's reply to Dr. Hsiung-thakput » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2004, at 9:19:32
> Dr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...thanks for the input...].
> Are you saying that your statement is your determination as to the acceptability or not in relation to the guidlines of the forum in relation to my request for that determination? If so, what does,[...thank you for your input...] mean in regards to that?
> If you could clarify this, then I could have the opportunuty to respond accordingly.
> LouMr. Hsiung,
In regrds to your reminder policy, the above.
Lou Pilder
This is the end of the thread.
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