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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 15:35:19
Hi Lou. I think that people are trying really hard to explain to you why they find some of your posts to be upsetting. People are trying really hard to do this in an honest way, and in a way in which they do not unduly hurt your feelings.
I just wanted to add one more point:
I think that in general Dr. B does a pretty good job of moderating these boards. Sure he makes mistakes sometimes (in my opinion at any rate) but then it is reassuring to me to think that he is only human.
It must take him an awful lot of time to keep up with peoples posts, and while he may not read them all he seems to scan most of them. But frequent requests for determination make the admin board too much like hard work. Can you imagine how much time it must take for someone to keep up with all your postings? Can you not see why at least some people have chosen not to read them thoroughly, and why you may loose people who would otherwise support you?
I am reminded of 'you can lead a horse to water...'. I don't like rules, but I think that people have done really well to try to explain the situation to you, and, well, I am starting to see the point of the new 3 post rule after all.
Please Lou, try not to take this personally - it is (or at least it definately should be) about your behaviour and not you as a person. People are trying so hard to explain where they are coming from to you because they care. Remember how many people didn't want you to go? People care about you and I don't think that people are trying intentionally to hurt or pick on you.
Posted by Jai Narayan on October 28, 2004, at 17:58:50
In reply to Hi Lou, posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 15:35:19
alexandra_k absolutely lovely attempt to communicate with Lou.
You did your best, of that I am sure.
Lou has not replied yet.
Well I am replying and saying that I appreciate your attempt.
It was golden.
my best to you alexandra_k
I hope you have a lovely night.
Jai your buddy and friend.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2004, at 20:11:36
In reply to Hi Lou, posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 15:35:19
alexander_K,
You wrote,[...I do not think that people are {intenionally} trying to hurt or pick on you....].
What facts did you take into consideration to make you think that?
Lou
Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 20:44:03
In reply to Lou's reply to alexander_k, posted by Lou Pilder on October 28, 2004, at 20:11:36
alexandra_k (it's the girl version).
>You wrote,[...I do not think that people are {intenionally} trying to hurt or pick on you....].
>What facts did you take into consideration to make you think that?Deciding what the fact of the matter is about someones intentions is indeed a very hard thing to do. Sometimes I have to try to examine myself very thoroughly indeed to try to work out what my intentions are.
I just think that the fact that so many people said that they didn't want you to go, or at least posted that they wished you well could indeed be taken as evidence that people care about you. If they do indeed care, then I would think that they would not wish to hurt you or cause you offence.
Deciding whether others intend something to be attacking or hurtful or offensive or not can be hard. To a very large extent it is a matter of faith and trust but those things can be very hard when one has been hurt in the past.
I for one would not wish to post anything that would hurt you or cause you offence, and I think that most of the posters here would share that. That being said people do lash out sometimes (at least I do) when frustrated. If you constantly interpret others intentions negatively (and I am not accusing you of this) - but if someone does this then others firstly try to clarify their intentions but if that is not well recieved then they may resort to lashing out.
I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received. Which is why people are responding by lashing out or withdrawing from you.
Peoples intentions can be a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 20:49:32
In reply to Re: Hi Lou, posted by Jai Narayan on October 28, 2004, at 17:58:50
Lovely Jai,
I appreciate you
And Lou,
And ((Larry Hoover))
And you all
For teaching me so much
And asking so little
And accepting the best I can offer
As my best.We live
And learn
And try.
And that is all we can do.
I am so happy and so privaledged to have you all walk beside me for a while.
I respect and love you all.
Posted by Jai Narayan on October 29, 2004, at 8:17:42
In reply to Re: Hi Jai, posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 20:49:32
Okay, I got chills.
I am honored as well.
jai : )
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2004, at 13:54:06
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k » Lou Pilder, posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 20:44:03
Alexandra_k,
You wrote,[...if you constantly interpret other's intentions negativly (and I am not accusing you of this)...].
Well, {if} you are saying that I am [constantly interpreting other's intentions negativly], then would that not being accusing me of such? So are you or are you not saying that I am constantly interpreting other's intentions negativly?
If you could clarify that for me, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by alexandra_k on October 29, 2004, at 18:41:52
In reply to Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp » alexandra_k, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2004, at 13:54:06
In my personal opinion, I think that you do seem to be. But that is my personal opinion. I do not say that to hurt you, however. It is up to you to do what you want with what I say.
What is something that you like about babble Lou?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 29, 2004, at 18:52:09
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp » Lou Pilder, posted by alexandra_k on October 29, 2004, at 18:41:52
Sorry, I am not very with it today (moving house). To repeat:
>I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received. Which is why people are responding by lashing out or withdrawing from you.
That is my opinion.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2004, at 19:09:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp, posted by alexandra_k on October 29, 2004, at 18:52:09
alexandra_k,
Please do not post to me.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/408581.html
Posted by fayeroe on October 29, 2004, at 19:36:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp, posted by alexandra_k on October 29, 2004, at 18:52:09
Alexander_k, you really, really tried. It was beautiful. And you're right about people being upset about the content of Lou's posts. Bob, at times, can really exasperate me with his style of moderating.......but it's his board and I think he's doing the best that he's able to do. For another poster to decide to examine so many posts and find something wrong with them....his interpetation....takes up space, time and energy for the majority of posters. I have noticed that when anyone gets close to the nerve, they are told not to post to him. It appears that Lou doesn't want to engage in a dialogue where someone else is making sense. And you were making sense, as were several others. I'm afraid that staying off administration may be the answer. Sort of a boycott, so to speak. However, I would like to see Lou state what he thinks would be the perfect Babble. But I'm afraid that it would be for no one else to post on administration except for Lou and Bob. Pat
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 4:36:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp, posted by fayeroe on October 29, 2004, at 19:36:40
Thankyou fayeroe. I am not taking this personally, it has happened often enough with so many others for me to be able to see that it really is not personal at all. Thankyou for your post :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 4:52:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp » fayeroe, posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 4:36:35
And hurt. I don't understand why I go from being suggested moderator for psych...
(I don't understand that at all.)
And I certaintly don't understand why I go from that to someone who is not allowed to respond.
I don't understand all the rules here, but I never mean to hurt or cause offence.
I would rather be able to sort the situation out, but I am prevented.
I wish that could be reconsidered.
People are most welcome to disagree with me and my opinions. If I am wrong (and I often am) then it is helpful to me when others can help me see that. I just don't know what to do when I am unable to respond.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 5:41:22
In reply to Ok, after thinking... I am confused., posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 4:52:19
In fact, given that
'my requests to others to not post to me are based on what I consider to be harassment toward me'
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/408290.html
I feel that I am being accused of harrassment.
Isn't this just a little bit... tiresome?
I am irritated...
It is so very easy to pick, pick, pick. Too easy. I am tired of it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2004, at 6:50:26
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to alexander_k-neg-intrp, posted by fayeroe on October 29, 2004, at 19:36:40
> I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received.
>
> alexandra_k> It appears that Lou doesn't want to engage in a dialogue where someone else is making sense.
>
> fayeroePlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Noa on October 30, 2004, at 7:29:41
In reply to Re: please be civil » alexandra_k » fayeroe, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2004, at 6:50:26
Dr. Bob,
I don't agree with you that the following is putting someone down. I see it as gentle feedback based on what has been happening in these threads.
> I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received.
>
> alexandra_k
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2004, at 7:46:41
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Noa on October 30, 2004, at 7:29:41
> Dr. Bob,
>
> I don't agree with you that the following is putting someone down. I see it as gentle feedback based on what has been happening in these threads.
>
> > I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received.
> >
> > alexandra_k
I had a hard time understanding this PBC as well.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 7:48:39
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by SLS on October 30, 2004, at 7:46:41
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 7:51:10
In reply to Re: Ok, after thinking... I am confused., posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 5:41:22
I was hurt by that as well. I have never tried to harass anyone, much less someone I like and have tried to be a friend to.
But Dr. Bob apparently thought it was ok under the guidelines. Which stings even more.
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 8:18:21
In reply to Re: Ok, after thinking... I am confused. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 7:51:10
I felt hurt when I read that.
I also felt hurt by Dr. Bob.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 18:34:09
In reply to Re: please be civil » alexandra_k » fayeroe, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2004, at 6:50:26
> I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received.
I am afraid that you are going to have to explain to me what is supposed to be uncivil about that one because I don't understand.I would like to request that Lou not post to me. I'd tell him myself but given that I can't post to him perhaps someone could pass that on. Given what he said his reasons were for requesting that others not post to him, I do feel accused (as I have already said).
I'm leaving admin alone for a while.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 18:37:25
In reply to Re: Ok, after thinking... I am confused. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 7:51:10
> I was hurt by that as well. I have never tried to harass anyone, much less someone I like and have tried to be a friend to.
> But Dr. Bob apparently thought it was ok under the guidelines. Which stings even more.
Hi Dinah, I hear you. The civility rules are making less and less sense to me. I am going to withdraw for a while...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 18:39:16
In reply to Re:Let me rephrase, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2004, at 8:18:21
> I felt hurt when I read that.
>
> I also felt hurt by Dr. Bob.Yup. PCB Dr. Bob. The trouble is, who shall enforce the ban if we block him for a week???
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 31, 2004, at 11:15:05
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 18:34:09
> I don't agree with you that the following is putting someone down.
>
> > I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received.I thought it could be taken as:
> > You received peoples attempts poorly.
> I would like to request that Lou not post to me. I'd tell him myself but given that I can't post to him
That's an exception, you can tell him.
> Given what he said his reasons were for requesting that others not post to him, I do feel accused
Well, that's the reason for that policy:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#harassed
But I've also asked him for a rephrase.
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2004, at 15:04:33
In reply to Re: phrasings, posted by Dr. Bob on October 31, 2004, at 11:15:05
> > I don't think that peoples attempts to explain their feelings to you have been well received.
>> I thought it could be taken as:
> > You received peoples attempts poorly.There are a variety of ways in which one 'can' take various things. While I agree that I would have appropriately been PBC'd for your rephrasing I take issue with the way that you have chosen to interpret it.
(1) I never said anything about Lou, which is perhaps implied by your interpretation.
(2) I qualified my statement by saying 'that is what I think'. While one could consider that I just tagged a bit on the front I chose the phrasing I did because I was expressing my thoughts and responses to Lou, not attempting to communicate facts about him.
(3) What I meant was that when people attempt to explain their feelings to him, that seems to result in a request to not post to him. I have to say that I consider this to be an abuse of the 'please do not post to me rule'. It doesn't seem to me that this request follows a drawn out process where resolution seems unlikely. At least, not in my case.I was hurt that you ignored my hurt until Dinah expressed a similar take. I had to say that I felt hurt and accused twice before you decided to ask for a rephrasing.
I apologise for the dart board comment.
And for the comment about being difficult (sigh).
But I am afraid I cannot apologise for this one, because when I do give an apology it is genuine and I still do not understand this PBC. While I grant one COULD interpret it in the manner you have done I do think that doing so distorts what I actually did say.
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